The Spirited Sixth Sense ...

[flynnibus]

AA is a triumph. A quiet understated show when it needs to be. Not something that can be said of many theme park attractions. It truly captures the agonizing truths and triumphs of American Spirit.

It's also a technical masterpiece... the scale and complexity of swapping out entire STAGES of AA figures is done without most people understanding the scale and scope of the attraction that make it possible... right under where they are sitting

 

[twebber55]

It also has a total population smaller than NYC alone.. and smaller than most of our major metro areas. Scale is a tough topic for many ideas to ignore.

i was going to mention this but i didnt have time to post...its apples and oranges..we have 315 million they have about 6 million hard to compare the two

 

[twebber55]

True but they are not hobbled by massive bureacracy either,

A small city close to where I live the school 'Administration' budget is larger than the entire academic budget they have nearly as many administrators, curriculum coordinators, Dean of green paper clips, Dean of red staplers than they do teachers. While closing schools they are proposing to build a new 'Administrative Campus' to house the increased number of 'Administrators' This is in a nutshell one of the many problems with the K-12 system.

Back in the old days you had the school board, The principal and assorted vice-principals and the teachers and they RAN the school. Now there is a massive unaccountable 'administration' sucking all the dollars out of the classroom.

in most school systems teacher pay is about 85% of the budget and 10 % of the budget goes to transportation that leaves you with 5% for everything else
im for school four days a week adding on about 1.5 hours to the school day..lots of research out there that this is very sound way to educate

 

[alphac2005]

Teachers MIGHT be better respected IF they were better educated, Friend of mine who is a department chair at MIT and had multiple PhD' is not 'Qualified' to teach high school science, They would need to take 3 years of 'Education' courses and a year of student teaching.

I think that says enough about the self serving bureacracy which is the K-12 education establishment where so called diversity and inclusiveness is deemed more important than competence. Leading to the saying "Those that can DO, Those who cannot TEACH",

My DW is a teacher and it makes her scream that some of her colleagues cannot do simple arithmetic, spell or write a concise sentence in english, She is always commenting howintheheck did they ever GRADUATE much less get a teaching license, Yet college professors are not deemed 'competent' to teach in the K-12 system.

In the US the 'Education' graduates tend to be in the bottom quintile of academic achievement. In Finland only students in the top 15% of K-12 students are accepted into the teacher training programs.

As to teaching across socio-economic levels, This is done all the time in France and Germany where it can be rightfully said at any time all the schoolbooks in the country are open to the SAME page. 'Social Promotion' is unheard of outside of the US.

The education of the teacher is one of the major components of the Finnish system. They are highly educated and the standards are rigorous to become a teacher. Just as one entrusts their health with a Doctor of the highest quality, the same regard is given to the teacher.

I hear exactly what your wife is saying about some of her colleagues. I've seen teachers in elementary school that aren't qualified enough work in a daycare, yet they are the main teacher for a child for their entire school year. My favorite thing is when our boys bring home their graded homework and the teacher has marked that an was wrong, yet the answer was actually corerct or conversely when there is an answer that is clearly wrong, yet marked as correct. We've had teachers that couldn't do their possessives if their livelihood was on the line.

Their school system does extensive work with bullying and the concept in theory is terrific. In implementation, it's a joke. So they have a no tolerance policy and the kids are supposed to report the kids that are bullying. OK, the kids do that and the teachers simply tell them things along the lines of "Johnny has certain developmental issues, or this problem, issues at home, etc." and nothing is ever solved. It's as if they foster even greater bullying because they have a whole campaign against it, which the bully is fully aware of, and there are absolutely no teeth behind the policy. The bully then knows that they can do as they please because there is virtually never a true punishment for their abhorrent behavior.

 

[yeti]

A quiet understated show when it needs to be.

I think I missed that part...

 

[ford91exploder]

in most school systems teacher pay is about 85% of the budget and 10 % of the budget goes to transportation that leaves you with 5% for everything else
im for school four days a week adding on about 1.5 hours to the school day..lots of research out there that this is very sound way to educate

I strongly suggest that you go through budgets line by line, You will find that probably only 1/3 - 1/2 of funds actually go to 'teacher' pay.

 

[twebber55]

a lot of times i see surveys done where people are upset and unhappy with education but really like their kids individual teachers
for example, in our county there was a survey done where 70% of public had a negative view towards the school system but 90% of the people surveyed liked their kids teacher(s)....sometimes perception isnt reality

in terms of bullying we have had several training sessions on it and are constantly asked to watch out and address it if we see it and or get the guidance involved

 

[Nubs70]

M. Night Shyamalan studied what education reforms would provide best outcomes.
He found the followingthings done concurrently will improve education:

1. Get rid of the worst teachers.
2. Turn principle back to a teaching mentor from operational manager.
3. Provide teachers and principals feedback.
4. Build smaller schools.
5. Longer school days.

Also, he found things that do not matter:

1. Masters level educated teachers.
2. Large class sizes.

The simplest thing teachers can do, regardless of teaching skill, is to maintain a strict classroom with a rigid and repetitive structure. The name of the book is " I Got Schooled"

 

[ford91exploder]

The education of the teacher is one of the major components of the Finnish system. They are highly educated and the standards are rigorous to become a teacher. Just as one entrusts their health with a Doctor of the highest quality, the same regard is given to the teacher.

I hear exactly what your wife is saying about some of her colleagues. I've seen teachers in elementary school that aren't qualified enough work in a daycare, yet they are the main teacher for a child for their entire school year. My favorite thing is when our boys bring home their graded homework and the teacher has marked that an was wrong, yet the answer was actually corerct or conversely when there is an answer that is clearly wrong, yet marked as correct. We've had teachers that couldn't do their possessives if their livelihood was on the line.

Their school system does extensive work with bullying and the concept in theory is terrific. In implementation, it's a joke. So they have a no tolerance policy and the kids are supposed to report the kids that are bullying. OK, the kids do that and the teachers simply tell them things along the lines of "Johnny has certain developmental issues, or this problem, issues at home, etc." and nothing is ever solved. It's as if they foster even greater bullying because they have a whole campaign against it, which the bully is fully aware of, and there are absolutely no teeth behind the policy. The bully then knows that they can do as they please because there is virtually never a true punishment for their abhorrent behavior.

What you describe is why teachers have no respect.

 

[twebber55]

I strongly suggest that you go through budgets line by line, You will find that probably only 1/3 - 1/2 of funds actually go to 'teacher' pay.

not in our system ..no way does only a third go to teacher pay...maybe in a smaller school systems i dont know, but in our system in only makes sense because of the sheer number of teachers
logically you have 5000 teachers and 200 central office people its not even close

 

[twebber55]

M. Night Shyamalan studied what education reforms would provide best outcomes.
He found the followingthings done concurrently will improve education:

1. Get rid of the worst teachers.
2. Turn principle back to a teaching mentor from operational manager.
3. Provide teachers and principals feedback.
4. Build smaller schools.
5. Longer school days.

Also, he found things that do not matter:

1. Masters level educated teachers.
2. Large class sizes.

The simplest thing teachers can do, regardless of teaching skill, is to maintain a strict classroom with a rigid and repetitive structure. The name of the book is " I Got Schooled"

Tennessee is actually going towards that model in regards to pay based on years and degree experience although i disagree somewhat because i think it does matter in terms of experience and frankly my masters helped a great deal

 

[twebber55]

The education of the teacher is one of the major components of the Finnish system. They are highly educated and the standards are rigorous to become a teacher. Just as one entrusts their health with a Doctor of the highest quality, the same regard is given to the teacher.

I hear exactly what your wife is saying about some of her colleagues. I've seen teachers in elementary school that aren't qualified enough work in a daycare, yet they are the main teacher for a child for their entire school year. My favorite thing is when our boys bring home their graded homework and the teacher has marked that an was wrong, yet the answer was actually corerct or conversely when there is an answer that is clearly wrong, yet marked as correct. We've had teachers that couldn't do their possessives if their livelihood was on the line.

Their school system does extensive work with bullying and the concept in theory is terrific. In implementation, it's a joke. So they have a no tolerance policy and the kids are supposed to report the kids that are bullying. OK, the kids do that and the teachers simply tell them things along the lines of "Johnny has certain developmental issues, or this problem, issues at home, etc." and nothing is ever solved. It's as if they foster even greater bullying because they have a whole campaign against it, which the bully is fully aware of, and there are absolutely no teeth behind the policy. The bully then knows that they can do as they please because there is virtually never a true punishment for their abhorrent behavior.

i will say that today it is harder to become a highly qualified teacher than ever before...the standard is higher today than ever before..that was a big component of NCLB

 

[twebber55]

M. Night Shyamalan studied what education reforms would provide best outcomes.
He found the followingthings done concurrently will improve education:

1. Get rid of the worst teachers.
2. Turn principle back to a teaching mentor from operational manager.
3. Provide teachers and principals feedback.
4. Build smaller schools.
5. Longer school days.

Also, he found things that do not matter:

1. Masters level educated teachers.
2. Large class sizes.

The simplest thing teachers can do, regardless of teaching skill, is to maintain a strict classroom with a rigid and repetitive structure. The name of the book is " I Got Schooled"

agree on 1. and this is happening
disagree on 2. Principals already do this
agree on 3. already happening
agree on 4. but will never happen to expensive
5 is another long debate

 

[flynnibus]

not in our system ..no way does only a third go to teacher pay...maybe in a smaller school systems i dont know, but in our system in only makes sense because of the sheer number of teachers
logically you have 5000 teachers and 200 central office people its not even close

My county has a 6 story office building just for the 'school administration'. We have more levels of 'athletic directors' then the schools I went to had administrators. We have a superintendent who travels to CHINA for conferences. etc

Our schools have 'deans' for each grade...
Our elementry school has like 4 office admins...
it goes on and on and on.

 

[Cesar R M]

You'll appreciate this! The john travolta name generator! LOL

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/...l_adele_dazeem_what_s_your_travolta_name.html

Unbelievable how fast the internet works to bring such sillyness XD

i was going to mention this but i didnt have time to post...its apples and oranges..we have 315 million they have about 6 million hard to compare the two

I think that is the problem.
Instead of giving real education, the American education system only throw information in a mass product style (aka Mcdonalds) in the name of "education" instead of actually educating.

What you describe is why teachers have no respect.

Reminds me how families back used to blame the kid when they did bad at school and forced them to work harder.
now the average family seems to blame THE TEACHER and even the parents claim they are going to sue the school..etc..etc..
Parents are putting Kids and taking them to a whole level of "precious" that is beyond ridiculous .

so no surprise teachers nowadays just say "Fxxx this!, ill just do it by the books and god may help the kids to actually learn something"

 

[twebber55]

My county has a 6 story office building just for the 'school administration'. We have more levels of 'athletic directors' then the schools I went to had administrators. We have a superintendent who travels to CHINA for conferences. etc

Our schools have 'deans' for each grade...
Our elementry school has like 4 office admins...
it goes on and on and on.

how many teachers in your system? i live in tenn and our state pays among the worst in the country for teachers and teacher pay still takes up 85% of the budget

 

[ford91exploder]

M. Night Shyamalan studied what education reforms would provide best outcomes.
He found the followingthings done concurrently will improve education:

1. Get rid of the worst teachers.
2. Turn principle back to a teaching mentor from operational manager.
3. Provide teachers and principals feedback.
4. Build smaller schools.
5. Longer school days.

Also, he found things that do not matter:

1. Masters level educated teachers.
2. Large class sizes.

The simplest thing teachers can do, regardless of teaching skill, is to maintain a strict classroom with a rigid and repetitive structure. The name of the book is " I Got Schooled"

All of those things are obvious to everyone but the education establishment, As to class sizes I guess it's not possible to learn anything in university like the Introduction to physics in college where we had 500 students and only a SINGLE Instructor...

As to The MeD it's frankly a joke as it takes 1 year after your BA, A lot of students take it simply because its EASY to get. I had one of these MeD's blathering at me how Math needs to be taught as a 'experiental process' where there is no right answer. She unfortunately was at a gathering of engineers who promptly told her math is the ONLY field where there IS ONLY ONE CORRECT answer for any given set of conditions.

 

[lebeau]

M. Night Shyamalan studied what education reforms would provide best outcomes.
He found the followingthings done concurrently will improve education:

1. Get rid of the worst teachers.
2. Turn principle back to a teaching mentor from operational manager.
3. Provide teachers and principals feedback.
4. Build smaller schools.
5. Longer school days.

Also, he found things that do not matter:

1. Masters level educated teachers.
2. Large class sizes.

The simplest thing teachers can do, regardless of teaching skill, is to maintain a strict classroom with a rigid and repetitive structure. The name of the book is " I Got Schooled"

Wait a minute! Are we seriously looking to the director of The Village, Lady in the Water and After Earth for education reform?!?!

If so, things are worse than I thought.

 

[ford91exploder]

how many teachers in your system? i live in tenn and our state pays among the worst in the country for teachers and teacher pay still takes up 85% of the budget

'Teacher Pay' includes all those administrators which is why I said check the budget for the portion actually assigned to the CLASSROOM, The Administrative salaries generally covers building and grounds/food service/health. The rest is called 'Teacher Pay'

 

[ford91exploder]

Wait a minute! Are we seriously looking to the director of The Village, Lady in the Water and After Earth for education reform?!?!

If so, things are worse than I thought.

WE ARE!