The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

[WDW1974]

Speaking of Disney things... has anyone ever read "Disney Wars"? I finally got around to reading it and I am still shaking my head. If only half of it is true, then Disney, at least under Eisner, was one giant cesspool of dysfunctional executives that were paid so much that they were unable to overcome a power mad leader. I would be interested in knowing if other companies are run like this. I am amazed that Disney is still in existence. The team of Roy Disney and Stanley Gold are no longer. I worry about the fate of the place without these two. The two of them brought down the evil giant when no one thought he could be pushed out.

Or are we still talking about Apple as if anyone cares other then a couple of ya!

OK, I have a roof cleaner coming in seven hours and 10 a.m. Eastern time is usually sleep time for me ... but before I call it a night, I wanted to respond to this.

Disney Wars is a must read book on the company's recent history, but like all accounts it gets some things wrong, focuses too much on some things, and uses sources of the author's choosing.

I've said it before, but Michael Eisner was a great leader for TWDC. His talent and creative spark and PASSION for the company not only saved it from being torn apart into small pieces owned by many, but it made the media goliath that exists today. That is fact. Not hyperbole. ... There were issues and Michael's last five years were largely a disaster, although I could point to a large list of very positive things that came out of that time frame too.

The biggest problem of Eisner's tenure was the management structure that was set in place in the early to mid 1990s that Bob Iger has followed. Instead of correcting Michael's biggest issues, he embraced them and only covers for them because he has acquired some great IP that generates a lot of money, in addition to the great cash machine (ESPN) that MIchael left him.

Way too late to go into this further. And I've discussed it already on countless threads. But Eisner saved Disney and allowed for every damn positive thing that's happened since 1984 to happen. To vilify him for having a Hollywood sized ego is a bit insane since Iger has one and everyone working in this business at that level has one.

But I will say that no company was/is run quite like TWDC ...

Catch y'all over the weekend. (Hoping the roof cleaner gets delayed!)

 

[Darth Sidious]

BTW, I recall mentioning a few weeks back that the fact that chains like Olive Garden and Red Lobster are largely in their death throes due to the death of the American middle class and it was met with either a sigh or folks telling me it was the chains and nothing at all to do with the economy (my house just went up another $100,000 in value for NO reason at all ... sure this isn't 2007-2008 all over again!)

Well, there was a story recently on the HuffPo talking about how the Olive Garden's issues were a serious warning about our economy.

And it isn't simply on the low end. High end chains, once just for the expense account crowd are also desperate to raise revenue quickly. Thursday members of the Landry's Rewards Club received an email from Morton's offering a $29.99 two-pound Maine Lobster dinner if people reserved for dinner tonight. A few weeks ago I got a similar offer for $40 off dinner at Fleming's and there isn't even one close.

Back to the middle, Macaroni Grill sends me daily emails with discounts for that day only. Usually, I don't pay attention, but they have gone from $5 off to $7 off to $10 off a $25 purchase to 20% off the check to $20 off a $40 purchase (would have easily used that one, but saw it at 10 p.m.)

Anyone who doesn't see these as desperate moves because folks aren't dining out and our economy is ready to crash again likely isn't seeing reality. These restaurants need people in their locations YESTERDAY and will offer anything to get them in.

Also, look at the increases in prices at McDonald's, Wendy's, Taco bell and Starbucks. The percentage change of former Dollar Menu items is telling you the companies are desperate to increase the bottom line at all costs.

Yep. I'd feel real good about the economy now.

OK, were we talking about Quiet Riot or Poison?

Across every industry you've seen companies squeeze money out of their segments. It leads to layoffs though and that leads to less people earning wages and in effect less people in the market for goods/services. That's why you see double dip recessions (not that simple but it's fun for the high level argument tons of things cause double dips).

The only difference between 2007 and the issues popping up now is that banks are significantly more deleveraged than the last time. Regulations have clamped down on banking and will continue to do so with Basel 3 regulations over the next few years.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Oh, but you do enjoy playing the part quite entertainingly here!

Touched a nerve Richard?

 

[Longhairbear]

On a personal note, Disney has failed me as a consumer under the One Disney crap. I happen to fall into several segments of specific merchandise. Cooking, and Gardening.
I have all the cookbooks, I've made all my favorite Disney recipes. I go to Food & Wine, although not in 4 years.
There once was a store in DTD that sold topiary molds for Mickey, and others. they also had Mickey shaped garden faucet handles. Can you tell how much Pixie Dust I was on? We have all the Disney Gardening books. (Their recipe for potting soil really is fabulous.) We even have the Mickey and Minnie wall planters. Haven't seen those for sale in a long time.
There used to be a non Disney website to help you plan your Disney garden with tips on how to replicate the fireflies in your own back yard from Pirates Of The Caribbean at DLR.
And yes, we have all the table top fountains of Splash Mountain, Tree Of Life, etc. somewhere in storage.
As a DVC owner, there should be a grocery/ recipe package to purchase at Food & Wine at EPCOT during that event for us foodies that went to a certain demonstration, as an add on upcharge, to replicate in our DVC kitchens. Morons in marketing as far as I am concerned.
And I've never seen this at Food & Wine. It's a natural.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/5Qb8bHUjPl8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
We are not going to stay at our DVC at WDW until Universal gives a reason to, and that's happening pretty quickly.

 

[KYWDW]

My very first post. Why, as a faux 1% blogger, are you on Landry's or Macaroni Grill's email lists? You seem to have very good connections @ DW and WDW and maybe the other parks. You obviously are a world traveler and seem to have some familial connection to the parks? When you blog about all your fantastic trips, i just can't understand why you would be spending time looking for discounts at cheap chain restaurants.

You don't become or stay a 1%er buy not using coupons or taking advantage of deals. Hell my parents still use the original tv they bought when they got married. Lol

 

[culturenthrills]

I'd say there is enough cultural context to suggest restaurant chains would be having trouble now even if the economy was booming. Probably the biggest is that people tend to maintain adaptions to economic downturns. For chain restaurants this is bad news because coinciding with people not eating out as much was a rise in concerns regarding what people are eating. The dominance of placelessness is also being challenged a a meaningful, and chains are a defining characteristic of the placeless. If the economy were doing better the chain restaurants would probably be even worse off as people would have the money to buy more expensive food at more unique establishments.

I avoid sit down restaurant chains at all costs unless I have no choice. Why would I eat at a chain when I can eat at a local restaurant with freshly prepared, better tasting and not loaded with sodium food and prices that are usually less expensive than chains.

 

[culturenthrills]

Weather here is typical summer misery (folks don't get that this generally starts in May and used to last until early October and now generally lasts until around Halloween or later). ... Went out tonight at 9:30 for some froyo (my town is so upscale we don't do ice cream anymore, seriously ... and it es me off) and it was 84 and sticky and buggy and all I could think was how did my beloved Mrs. Lee take @Lee to Alaska with her instead of her ''other husband''!!! ... I think I could spend the next two months up there and actually feel alive!

I still think folks who take summer vacations to Florida are insane, although I will likely visit the theme parks at some point out of sheer boredom.

Yeah, I look back now and it is crazy that we used to come here for summer vacation every couple of years in June when I was younger. My friends from out of state I beg them not to come visit during the summer. I suck it up and go to the parks with them when they do but they are always like what do you normally do during the summer. I'm like we stay inside in the AC. If we do go out we go to the pool. If we go to the beach we get there at 7-8 o clock in the morning and we are gone by noon. If we go to the parks we go first thing in the morning or in the evening for a 2-3 hours. October can't come soon enough.

 

[asianway]

Nah, I am thinking of riding this one until the bitter end.
(not having a major summer trip planned certainly helps)

Besides, if this has 400,000 views in a month without me really trying to capture and sustain an audience, I do wonder what would happen if I were more active? If I let more of the inner Spirit out? If I went with a "Bash the Lifestyler of the Day?'' If I did some history lesson that can't be learned by eBaying a 1996 WDC Annual Report or a 1979 Vacationland magazine? ... Yes, we might triple that number easily.

Do a blog post comparing and contrasting various lifestyler moneymaking techniques, universities, kickstarters, PayPal beg boxes, and sundry counterfeit merchandise schemes.

 

[wm49rs]

My very first post. Why, as a faux 1% blogger, are you on Landry's or Macaroni Grill's email lists? You seem to have very good connections @ DW and WDW and maybe the other parks. You obviously are a world traveler and seem to have some familial connection to the parks? When you blog about all your fantastic trips, i just can't understand why you would be spending time looking for discounts at cheap chain restaurants.

My, what an inquisitorial first post. No agenda there....

 

[Nemo14]

My, what an inquisitorial first post. No agenda there....

obviously a newbie...

 

[Goofyernmost]

OK, I have a roof cleaner coming in seven hours and 10 a.m. Eastern time is usually sleep time for me ... but before I call it a night, I wanted to respond to this.

Disney Wars is a must read book on the company's recent history, but like all accounts it gets some things wrong, focuses too much on some things, and uses sources of the author's choosing.

I've said it before, but Michael Eisner was a great leader for TWDC. His talent and creative spark and PASSION for the company not only saved it from being torn apart into small pieces owned by many, but it made the media goliath that exists today. That is fact. Not hyperbole. ... There were issues and Michael's last five years were largely a disaster, although I could point to a large list of very positive things that came out of that time frame too.

The biggest problem of Eisner's tenure was the management structure that was set in place in the early to mid 1990s that Bob Iger has followed. Instead of correcting Michael's biggest issues, he embraced them and only covers for them because he has acquired some great IP that generates a lot of money, in addition to the great cash machine (ESPN) that MIchael left him.

Way too late to go into this further. And I've discussed it already on countless threads. But Eisner saved Disney and allowed for every damn positive thing that's happened since 1984 to happen. To vilify him for having a Hollywood sized ego is a bit insane since Iger has one and everyone working in this business at that level has one.

But I will say that no company was/is run quite like TWDC ...

Catch y'all over the weekend. (Hoping the roof cleaner gets delayed!)

I don't necessarily disagree, but the picture that this book painted of him was a whole lot less then flattering. That is why I stated that even 'if half of this was true' he may have been "passionate" about the Disney company just as many tyrants of the world are passionate about their goals as well. That's not always a good thing.

Maybe I place to much emphasis on honesty, integrity and loyalty. It's possible that I live in a Pollyannistic world where people don't have to be butt-holes to accomplish greatness. I also feel that considering that the courts backed up the claims of a number of his "people" that he was inclined to play footloose with promises, contracts and agreements that he made. That, in spite of many accomplishments makes him less then a roll model for how to run a business or treat a fellow human beings.

For many of them, it was their blood, sweat and tears that got him to that place at the top of the mountain. Then he burnt the ladder that got him there and the only way down was to fall. That he did. Granted he fell into a very large and soft pile of money, but that only serves to show the injustice that is also part of our world.
I said in one of my posts that I didn't want to "take away the accomplishments of what was the incredible start that he had with Disney" (I also cannot say it without saying that Frank Wells was responsible for a lot of the proper decisions that were made back then). As sure as I'm sitting here though, had he not died in the helicopter crash, he would have been pushed out at some point along the way, if for no other reason then it was becoming widely known that Michael had to share the accolades with Frank.

You have mentioned that you had met or had some business connection with Mr. Eisner, so I am anxious to get this thread back to something more interesting and pertinent, then whether or not Apple coming to Disney Springs is a life changing event. I would like to get your opinions honest opinions on Eisner and the "Disney Wars" book. Why do you think it is accurate and inaccurate and what parts are you referring to as being "wrong".

 

[NearTheEars]

Weather here is typical summer misery (folks don't get that this generally starts in May and used to last until early October and now generally lasts until around Halloween or later). ... Went out tonight at 9:30 for some froyo (my town is so upscale we don't do ice cream anymore, seriously ... and it es me off) and it was 84 and sticky and buggy and all I could think was how did my beloved Mrs. Lee take @Lee to Alaska with her instead of her ''other husband''!!! ... I think I could spend the next two months up there and actually feel alive!

I still think folks who take summer vacations to Florida are insane, although I will likely visit the theme parks at some point out of sheer boredom.

Yeah, yesterday was awful. It's easy to forget the humidity until you step out of the office and it hits you in the face.

 

[BrianLo]

As promised thoughts on HKDL!

For context this is my third visit (although fourth time in HK). The first time I was on a short trip (which included TDL) and therefore HKDL really wasn't appealing. I surmised (fortunately correctly) that I'd have the opportunity to return someday. Didn't think it would be so frequently though!

Hong Kong has been simmering for quite some time, lots of development and fantastic infrastructure installed in the 90's/early 2000's, but there was a definitely lull thanks mostly to SARS. With that more than a decade behind us though, the growth is absolutely explosive. Very interesting to see the progress on the Macau-Zhuhai-Lantau mega bridge, tons of land reclamation is active at the airport for their new terminals and the high speed rail station is coming right along in Kowloon. I didn't even notice the former two projects a year ago, but crazy amounts of mega projects we really don't see these days in North America. Cranes, cranes and more cranes.

Why is that important? Because they are all massive projects to get bodies into the region. It represents the explosive growth in tourism that is coming (China proper is descending on the region). For the WDW faithful we are seeing investments that are 100x the size of the WDW monorail expansion that is never coming. HKDL's opening was marred by a terrible drop in tourism, but things have changed and the hordes are about to come in droves.

I'm glad the government seems so concerned with Shanghai Disney as we the foreign travellers benefit but having two very unique and different castle parks. I'm not in the least concerned about its future growth. It's also why unsurprisingly the 2nd gate talk and massive investments should continue to flow.

I actually have a very small list of legitimate criticism. The castle is sun-bleeched something fierce...

The Golden Mickey's show is a bit dated, the parade is actually pretty good (but they are on top of that with a replacement). They could use an update to projectors for the night show and Philharmagic (both of which I imagine are coming), in the latter case though they noticeably improved the film, it was really bad last year but was much better this time. Not sure if it had to do with where I sat in either case. They would really, really benefit from the what Tokyo is doing to Jungle cruise, they offer three language options and the English one leaves something to be desired from the skippers.

The expansion though is pretty much fantastic across the board. Grizzly Gulch is an actual family coaster and packed more of a punch then I remember. It's a nice build up with the final launch segment actually being rather thrilling. It also features the appropriate AA treatment that DCA should have received years ago.

Heck, I even like Toy Story Land. It feels better executed than Paris and crowds really lapped it up. I heard a lot of audible excitement from everyone when they first approached the land. Yes, it's two B tickets and a C, but with the inevitable TSMM it will be a nice little land that in my opinion offers a lot more value then Toontown or the Fantasyland circus do. It's fun and surprisingly can be photogenic.

There seems to be way too few of you who've had the chance to experience Mystic Manor, but I can't overstate how wonderful it is. It feels like an attraction designed and built for Disney Sea, and not ten years ago either. Something they had waiting for OLC before HK Gov swooped in. That's the highest honour I can bestow on it. Fantastic AA's, sets, a storyline that is perfectly paced beginning, middle and end. Really top notch integration of projection mapping too, everything just works well together!


HKDL still needs to grow. A water ride of some sort is sorely missing in the hottest castle park on Earth. If they continue the trend to reimagining classics I hope a flume is coming soon near Grizzly. As mentioned there is a need for a better headliner than RC Racers to make Toy Story Land more complete.

Then there is Fantasyland, which for the hatred WDW seems to get, this is by far HKDL's weak spot. Small World is well done, but really it was short sighted to only feature Winnie the Pooh when first built. SDL's fantasyland on paper already seems 2-3x better, so I really wouldn't be surprised if this is the next land that gets addressed after Iron Man.

Alright... I've blathered on long enough for now.

 

[BrianLo]

Also I'm really sad I had my actual camera in the overhead bins, was not expecting to have such a good view...

 

[culturenthrills]

Yeah, yesterday was awful. It's easy to forget the humidity until you step out of the office and it hits you in the face.

Imagine if your office is a news live truck and everytime you go in and out it is just like this hot beatdown you get everytime. By the time I got home last night I was exhausted. That kind of heat just sucks the life out of you.

 

[seascape]

First, Disney owns 43% while Shanghai Shendi owns 57%. Not that I am overly into numbers (just see any thread that touts WDW's unofficial official numbers to claim some sort of fanboi superiority over UNI-O-Town).

I don't know where in the world you get the idea that SDL will be the No. 1 attended theme park in China, let alone the world, at this point. I believe you threw some numbers on the table in another discussion talking about capacity, right? Well, I can tell you that at opening SDL will not have the capacity (even in the almost impossible event that people pack it to the rafters every day it is open) to come close to the numbers put up by the Top 10 theme parks on the globe. It's just not that big and won't have enough capacity to do so. They are rushing a Phase II that is really a Phase IA that opens 12-24 months later to address this, but that is largely due to Chinese concerns about Disney doing what it did in HK and axing 60% of the park as soon as the ink dried on the contracts.

You are right about Disney wanting more exposure for its films and, it is hoping, more profits. And that is very important to the success of this beachhead in the mainland. But there are still mighty obstacles to overcome on that end and Disney hasn't made the Chinese happy with many of its moves or its arrogant, dismissive negotiating style (I've actually seen this in person and am still amazed the resort actually happened!)

I'm wrong about the percentage. You are right Disney owns 43% of the park. However an interesting thing is they own 70% of the management company that will run it. So they actually will get more than 43% but I would think you're right and it's less than 48%.

As for why I am convinced that Shanghai Disney will be the top theme park in the world is look at the water parks attendance over the last few years and the growth in Chine then add in what is happening with Oct parks. Oct parks at the rate they are growing will pass universal as the number 3 theme park company in the future if universal does not invest much more in Asia. That means cutting their investments in the US and concentrate abroad. They can't do it all at once.

 

[George]

OK, I have a roof cleaner coming in seven hours and 10 a.m. Eastern time is usually sleep time for me ... but before I call it a night, I wanted to respond to this.

Disney Wars is a must read book on the company's recent history, but like all accounts it gets some things wrong, focuses too much on some things, and uses sources of the author's choosing.

I've said it before, but Michael Eisner was a great leader for TWDC. His talent and creative spark and PASSION for the company not only saved it from being torn apart into small pieces owned by many, but it made the media goliath that exists today. That is fact. Not hyperbole. ... There were issues and Michael's last five years were largely a disaster, although I could point to a large list of very positive things that came out of that time frame too.

The biggest problem of Eisner's tenure was the management structure that was set in place in the early to mid 1990s that Bob Iger has followed. Instead of correcting Michael's biggest issues, he embraced them and only covers for them because he has acquired some great IP that generates a lot of money, in addition to the great cash machine (ESPN) that MIchael left him.

Way too late to go into this further. And I've discussed it already on countless threads. But Eisner saved Disney and allowed for every damn positive thing that's happened since 1984 to happen. To vilify him for having a Hollywood sized ego is a bit insane since Iger has one and everyone working in this business at that level has one.

But I will say that no company was/is run quite like TWDC ...

Catch y'all over the weekend. (Hoping the roof cleaner gets delayed!)

It has been a long time since I read Disney Wars, but it should be noted that it is a VERY GOOD read. A real page turner/screen updater.

 

[alissafalco]

As promised thoughts on HKDL!

For context this is my third visit (although fourth time in HK). The first time I was on a short trip (which included TDL) and therefore HKDL really wasn't appealing. I surmised (fortunately correctly) that I'd have the opportunity to return someday. Didn't think it would be so frequently though!

Hong Kong has been simmering for quite some time, lots of development and fantastic infrastructure installed in the 90's/early 2000's, but there was a definitely lull thanks mostly to SARS. With that more than a decade behind us though, the growth is absolutely explosive. Very interesting to see the progress on the Macau-Zhuhai-Lantau mega bridge, tons of land reclamation is active at the airport for their new terminals and the high speed rail station is coming right along in Kowloon. I didn't even notice the former two projects a year ago, but crazy amounts of mega projects we really don't see these days in North America. Cranes, cranes and more cranes.

Why is that important? Because they are all massive projects to get bodies into the region. It represents the explosive growth in tourism that is coming (China proper is descending on the region). For the WDW faithful we are seeing investments that are 100x the size of the WDW monorail expansion that is never coming. HKDL's opening was marred by a terrible drop in tourism, but things have changed and the hordes are about to come in droves.

I'm glad the government seems so concerned with Shanghai Disney as we the foreign travellers benefit but having two very unique and different castle parks. I'm not in the least concerned about its future growth. It's also why unsurprisingly the 2nd gate talk and massive investments should continue to flow.

I actually have a very small list of legitimate criticism. The castle is sun-bleeched something fierce...

The Golden Mickey's show is a bit dated, the parade is actually pretty good (but they are on top of that with a replacement). They could use an update to projectors for the night show and Philharmagic (both of which I imagine are coming), in the latter case though they noticeably improved the film, it was really bad last year but was much better this time. Not sure if it had to do with where I sat in either case. They would really, really benefit from the what Tokyo is doing to Jungle cruise, they offer three language options and the English one leaves something to be desired from the skippers.

The expansion though is pretty much fantastic across the board. Grizzly Gulch is an actual family coaster and packed more of a punch then I remember. It's a nice build up with the final launch segment actually being rather thrilling. It also features the appropriate AA treatment that DCA should have received years ago.

Heck, I even like Toy Story Land. It feels better executed than Paris and crowds really lapped it up. I heard a lot of audible excitement from everyone when they first approached the land. Yes, it's two B tickets and a C, but with the inevitable TSMM it will be a nice little land that in my opinion offers a lot more value then Toontown or the Fantasyland circus do. It's fun and surprisingly can be photogenic.

There seems to be way too few of you who've had the chance to experience Mystic Manor, but I can't overstate how wonderful it is. It feels like an attraction designed and built for Disney Sea, and not ten years ago either. Something they had waiting for OLC before HK Gov swooped in. That's the highest honour I can bestow on it. Fantastic AA's, sets, a storyline that is perfectly paced beginning, middle and end. Really top notch integration of projection mapping too, everything just works well together!


HKDL still needs to grow. A water ride of some sort is sorely missing in the hottest castle park on Earth. If they continue the trend to reimagining classics I hope a flume is coming soon near Grizzly. As mentioned there is a need for a better headliner than RC Racers to make Toy Story Land more complete.

Then there is Fantasyland, which for the hatred WDW seems to get, this is by far HKDL's weak spot. Small World is well done, but really it was short sighted to only feature Winnie the Pooh when first built. SDL's fantasyland on paper already seems 2-3x better, so I really wouldn't be surprised if this is the next land that gets addressed after Iron Man.

Alright... I've blathered on long enough for now.

Id love to see more pics of the park.

 

[Nemo14]

I see benches!!!! and trees!!!!!!!!

 

[Goofyernmost]

Also I'm really sad I had my actual camera in the overhead bins, was not expecting to have such a good view...

Looks to me like a Tsunami waiting to happen and instantly you have a water park.