The Spirit Takes the Fifth ...

[ford91exploder]

Once again, your agenda doesn't fit the facts.

From the Times article...


No hypocrisy. In fact, just the opposite. Disney is working to align Marvel (and probably Lucas) with their stated policy.

A presser signifying NOTHING does not affect gaming revenues in the slightest, If Disney really wanted OUT they could pay the penalty clauses in the contract and BE out of the gaming business. Disney has chosen not to, hence they WANT to be in the gaming business and are just waiting for the kerfuffle to blow over.

 

[ToTBellHop]

A presser signifying NOTHING does not affect gaming revenues in the slightest, If Disney really wanted OUT they could pay the penalty clauses in the contract and BE out of the gaming business. Disney has chosen not to, hence they WANT to be in the gaming business and are just waiting for the kerfuffle to blow over.

Kefuffle. Good word. Word of the month. I will strive to use it thrice daily.

 

[lazyboy97o]

A presser signifying NOTHING does not affect gaming revenues in the slightest, If Disney really wanted OUT they could pay the penalty clauses in the contract and BE out of the gaming business. Disney has chosen not to, hence they WANT to be in the gaming business and are just waiting for the kerfuffle to blow over.

Why do you assume there is a viable out? We know Marvel made desperate and one sided deals. That is exactly why Marvel Superhero Island will remain open at Islands of Adventure for as long as Universal, not Disney or Marvel, desires.

 

[WDW1974]

If only Iger could control the populations that visit Indian Casinos with his Magic Band virtual shock treatment. It might be a problem if gambling is more addictive than going to Disney properties. Not sure what would win. One of the largest casinos in the US is located in Oklahoma by WinSTar Properties and believe me it is huge!!! And keeps getting bigger so yes Disney should feel threatened by nearby gambling casinos.
It would be funny if all those Disney animators that have lost their jobs over the year have taken their talents to the casino industry. And heaven forbid Disney should start losing all their lowly paid cast members to the gambling industry. So yes Indian Casino nearby WDW or DL is a 3 fold financial/control threat for Iger besides the double standard.
Spirit it would be fun to be an insider. The battle could be fantasmic! (as in POWER To Control Our Minds and Money)

Iger doesn't fear Indian gaming. The Hard Rock Hotel and Casino in Tampa is owned by the Seminole Tribe of Florida. It is one of the most profitable casinos in the country.

What Iger fears are destination resorts a la Vegas-style operating 225 miles to the south in Miami Beach because those could pull a large chunk of Disney's convention business away.

Iger and the Indians are actually on the same team on this issue.

 

[WDW1974]

IMHO - It's just a matter of time before TWDC begins operating Casinos in FL, They are big money and once the gaming companies start on the FL government - DIsney will act first to make sure it continues it's very profitable ownership of the FL legislature.

That will never happen.

Safest bet you could ever make beyond Disney raising prices and adding more timeshares.

 

[WDW1974]

A big deal would be if Disney was fully aware of the gaming deals with Marvel (and Lucasfilm) and intended to maintain these deals to allow Disney access into the gaming market while hoping to keep Disney-only brands "frailly friendly" while also opposing gaming. This is the story that was insinuated earlier. Gaming being another anecdote in the larger story of Marvel and Disney clashing is far less interesting, especially since it is known that Marvel has a mass of existing licensing deals.

Honestly, I don't understand any possibility were Disney wasn't fully aware of Market's gaming business. You don't enter into four billion plus buyouts not knowing every aspect about what you are purchasing. If Disney/Iger didn't know, then the BoD has major oversight issues.

I'd say Iger knew exactly what he was buying.

 

[WDW1974]

True, but the rest of Disneyland at Christmas time is just so (magical?) that it more than makes up for it. Small World, Mansion, holiday entertainment, holiday F&B offerings, and unique decorations throughout the park make it a wonderful experience. Have you seen how horrid the MK tree looks compared to DL's tree? And the fact that it's all included in your regular ticket makes it even better.

If they were truly going to charge for holiday offerings, I think they would to at the very least need to update the parade and pyro show. Maybe they didn't want to do that, and that could be another reason for cancelling/delaying any upcharge?

Oh, I completely agree. And Miceage reported the same thing I did last night this morning, and they suggested that the age of the current parade and fireworks show were factors in the decision.

But you really can't compare DL Christmas offerings with MK offerings overall. Anaheim just does so much more and so much better.

 

[rioriz]

Eh for me there's nothing to see here. Disney's strategy seems like a smart one now that they own said properties. I work with kids daily and if Disney's strategy is to gear towards family friendly they are on point. Star Wars and Marvel are THE two most popular brands coming from kids mouth these days. If Press doesn't like it too bad for him, it's Disney's brand now.

 

[The Visionary Soul]

That will never happen.

Safest bet you could ever make beyond Disney raising prices and adding more timeshares.

I don't agree in the long-term. Even Michael Eisner required that all his resorts were built with large convention and mixed use areas around or near lobbies that could be easily converted to a casino floor if need be. If Michael saw it coming someday, it could happen. Now, I'm not saying that anything will happen any time soon. But never? That's an awfully long time. Gaming is becoming more socially acceptable, not less.

 

[WDW1974]

I am not a fan of hypocrisy. However, usually this is individual hypocrisy. An example would be a closeted gay Senator voting for anti-gay legislation.
Unfortunately, business is full of hypocrisy. Sometimes the business principals don't line up with the bank accounts.
Disney is near and dear to me (especially WDW) and even though I understand the motivation behind their two-faced position, I don't like it. Personally, I don't really give a crap about Marvel characters on slots. It is the strong-arm tactics and dishonesty that bother me. It breaks my heart how they are treating the parks and now this blotch on their face.

Spirit, do you object to the hypocrisy or the actual use of Marvel characters of gambling machines?

The movies are marketed to(considering a PG-13 rating): 13,14,15,16, and 17 year-old's, all who cannot gamble legally in a casino. The 18 - 99 year old, who sees the movie, can all legally play the slots. Now we all know that younger kids see the movies, but that is not Disney's fault. So should these characters, who are overwhelmingly seen by adults, not be used because there is a very small percentage who watch the films and cannot gamble? I am not so sure.

But, perhaps you are just more upset with the fact that Disney is tied to gambling in any form.

Oh, unless your a doctor, please lay off the mental health diagnosis/put-downs. It kinda like making fun of sick people or at the very least it diminishing the struggles of people who are actually mentally ill. I have lost a family member to this and I assure you it is real. If you are a doctor okay, but I am going to start calling you Dr. Spirit.

As usual, thanks for the information!

I have more of an issue with the hypocrisy of it all. I don't think Disney should be in the gambling business as a matter of course, of history. Disney is quite right when it says gambling isn't compatble with its family-friendly BRAND. Of course, I don't feel Marvel is a good match for Disney at all.

 

[WDW1974]

I know this is a stretch, but given this mindset is there any chance they could act like Uni and start constructing something before an announcement?

For the record, I'm not really happy about the Star Wars-ification of Tomorrowland, but still think it would be better than the mess they have there now.

Note: edited to fix a glitch that garbled the message when it was originally posted.

Anything is possible, but Disney doesn't have that history EXCEPT when building timeshares.

Prep work, possibly.

 

[Sped2424]

As for a date with iger announcing star wars its either gonna be a random one where he creates an event, or they could wait till may this year (may the 4th)? I am guessing there is nor rush on this project considering how quickly the other ones have moved.

 

[danlb_2000]

Once again, your agenda doesn't fit the facts.

From the Times article...


No hypocrisy. In fact, just the opposite. Disney is working to align Marvel (and probably Lucas) with their stated policy.

If Disney is working to align Marvel with stated policy, then why did Marvel renew a contract 2 years ago when Disney bought them over 4 years ago?

 

[Rodan75]

Honestly, I don't understand any possibility were Disney wasn't fully aware of Market's gaming business. You don't enter into four billion plus buyouts not knowing every aspect about what you are purchasing. If Disney/Iger didn't know, then the BoD has major oversight issues.

I'd say Iger knew exactly what he was buying.

Having been on the inside team for more than a couple mergers at this point, it does seem realistic that they didn't know the source of all of the licensing revenues. But even if they did, those deals wouldn't have veto'd the purchase, so they were saddled with them.

Folks on here are quick to point to the Uni agreement for all other Marvel arguments and I don't think folks can use the Marvel/Uni agreement on one hand and then not honor the Marvel/Gaming agreement on the other.

Disney bought Marvel. All deals done under Marvel are unchanged.

Given the global nature of TWDC, I don't think it is hypocrisy if Disney wanted to segregate their opinions on gambling based on region and tourist destination.

 

[WDW1974]

This whole gambling thing feels like a news style "Scandal". It's really a nonissue being blown out of proportion and on top of that Iger has already said he will be phasing out any licenses involving disney characters when it comes to gambling.

There are FAR bigger issues than that. Must be a slow news period.

Unfortunately, there are not very many hard news organizations left in print journalism. We'll let the bloggers pretend and all will be fine in our democracy, right?

When things appear in the new York Times, people take note. This isn't the O-Town Sentinel.

You are free to believe it is a non-issue. I'll go along with the Times, even if I felt the story was weak in spots.

oh,Iger didn,t say a word about this publicly (although privately I am sure he seethed that he couldn't kill it), an unnamed Disney mouthpiece said so.

And with hypocrisy, you don't get a 7-8-9 year grace period.

 

[WDW1974]

Once again, your agenda doesn't fit the facts.

From the Times article...


No hypocrisy. In fact, just the opposite. Disney is working to align Marvel (and probably Lucas) with their stated policy.

Plenty of hypocrisy, old buddy.

Disney has continued to make gambling deals since Marvel was acquired. Disney never said a word about getting out of the business until reporters cornered them. Even then, from the way the story reads it is obvious to anyone who understands media that Disney's responses were late and forced. It reads like Disney couldn't buy someone off to kill the story, so they made a narrative up as they went along.

Considering that Disney's Celebration Place gang was contacting Florida media outlets and strongly 'suggesting' that there was no story and that it wouldn't be in their best interests to do stories of their own, I think I am right.

 

[WDW1974]

I don't agree in the long-term. Even Michael Eisner required that all his resorts were built with large convention and mixed use areas around or near lobbies that could be easily converted to a casino floor if need be. If Michael saw it coming someday, it could happen. Now, I'm not saying that anything will happen any time soon. But never? That's an awfully long time. Gaming is becoming more socially acceptable, not less.

Not true. It's a story that has been passed down, but Michael wanted the convention business and he did a great job of getting it. He didn't build convention centers at the Grand Flo, Contemporary, Coronado, BW, YC etc because he foresaw a future day when they'd be full of slots and poker and craps tables.

He saw a business that was compatible with Disney and that was under represented and he went out and made Disney a force in said business.

so, yeah, never.

 

[WDW1974]

As for a date with iger announcing star wars its either gonna be a random one where he creates an event, or they could wait till may this year (may the 4th)? I am guessing there is nor rush on this project considering how quickly the other ones have moved.

Actually, there is a rush. That comes from Iger, who wants to capitalize on his IP conquests. SW has moved to the absolute top of WDI projects with only SDL considered more important.

Just rush in Disney language means something different than in the real world.

If UNI can build Transformers in a year, Disney could have a SW E-Ticket in a year too. But that is not the culture.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Honestly, I don't understand any possibility were Disney wasn't fully aware of Market's gaming business. You don't enter into four billion plus buyouts not knowing every aspect about what you are purchasing. If Disney/Iger didn't know, then the BoD has major oversight issues.

I'd say Iger knew exactly what he was buying.

Marvel is involved with a tangled mess of licensing deals. If Iger and team were aware then the story from your sources should be about Iger quickly turning on Marvel and deals he approved of continuing, not that Marvel was suddenly being made aware that they were stopping. Disney not knowing what they were buying because the focus was on the Marvel Cinematic Universe makes far more sense and fits into everything that has been said about the acquisition.

Unfortunately, there are not very many hard news organizations left in print journalism. We'll let the bloggers pretend and all will be fine in our democracy, right?

When things appear in the new York Times, people take note. This isn't the O-Town Sentinel.

You are free to believe it is a non-issue. I'll go along with the Times, even if I felt the story was weak in spots.

oh,Iger didn,t say a word about this publicly (although privately I am sure he seethed that he couldn't kill it), an unnamed Disney mouthpiece said so.

And with hypocrisy, you don't get a 7-8-9 year grace period.

It is one article and who has taken notice? The story seems to have fizzled everywhere but here where the narrative of the story seems to be in a state of flux. And how would you suggest Disney get out of deals if they are unable to get out of other deals that Marvel already has in place? This is the company with a perpetual theme park deal where licensing fees only increase with inflation. Why should we assume that is the only shortsighted deal?

 

[alphac2005]

Honestly, I don't understand any possibility were Disney wasn't fully aware of Market's gaming business. You don't enter into four billion plus buyouts not knowing every aspect about what you are purchasing. If Disney/Iger didn't know, then the BoD has major oversight issues.

I'd say Iger knew exactly what he was buying.

That's for sure. During the due diligence process every single detail of any contract must have been run through with a fine-toothed comb by layers of legal. I've been involved in dealings and it's incredible when major transactions occur as any and everything is fully examined, line by line, piece by piece. For anyone to say otherwise is simply moronic or lacks an iota of understanding of how business transactions work.