The Spirit Takes the Fifth ...

[John]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/27/us/gambling-debate-entangles-disney-in-florida.html?_r=0


Excellent read.....

 

[MMDVC]

If only Iger could control the populations that visit Indian Casinos with his Magic Band virtual shock treatment. It might be a problem if gambling is more addictive than going to Disney properties. Not sure what would win. One of the largest casinos in the US is located in Oklahoma by WinSTar Properties and believe me it is huge!!! And keeps getting bigger so yes Disney should feel threatened by nearby gambling casinos.
It would be funny if all those Disney animators that have lost their jobs over the year have taken their talents to the casino industry. And heaven forbid Disney should start losing all their lowly paid cast members to the gambling industry. So yes Indian Casino nearby WDW or DL is a 3 fold financial/control threat for Iger besides the double standard.
Spirit it would be fun to be an insider. The battle could be fantasmic! (as in POWER To Control Our Minds and Money)

 

[The Empress Lilly]

I don't have a link handy, but --basically -- yes.

The big deal is Disney fighting gambling and talking about how it isn't family friendly while profiting off of it at the same time.

Not so much. Disney opposes gambling tourism in Florida, arguing that it runs counter to central Florida's family friendly tourism industry. Disney could own all of Vegas and sneak in lottery tickets in every child's school lunch nox and still it would not be hypocritical. I am opposed to an airport near where I live. I also fly several times a year. Nothing hypocritical about that either.

It does seem that the attempts of the gambling industry to discredit Disney are paying off. They understand nuance is easily lost in modern public debate. It doesn't matter that TWDC is right, all that matter is public perception. And Disney's tentalizing engagements in moral instead of strictly economic arguments against gambling in Florida has left TWDC vulnerable, supplying ready ammunition to the gambling lobby.

 

[Darth Sidious]

I will purposefully seek out Marvel and Star Wars themed slot machines to stick it to Disney... Or have fun... Maybe the latter is more accurate. Lol I don't really care about the gambling, I am not surprised by hypocritical corporate stuff. I truly hope Disney stays out of Marvel for the most part going forward though.

 

[bhg469]

For folks looking for Star Wars news or an announcement, looks like you'll have a bit of a wait as Iger wants a large stage on which he can crow and announce additions for DL and TPFKaTD-MGMS will at once ...and maybe a television or film announcement as well.

I have NO idea when this will be. Got some educated guesses, but I am sure you all can spitball just like I can.

If they needed a press conference for benches maybe they will be in space with lady gaga when she does her publicity stunt when they announce anything.

 

[ford91exploder]

OK, I was not planning on starting a new news/observations/thoughts thread just yet, but I just got some information from a Marvelous source and I didn't want this buried on Page 635 of another thread -- which I will continue to post in as I see fit -- and I felt it was worthy as a first post in such a thread.

The news is this: it's taken four plus years but Marvel head Ike Perlmutter is ''livid'' with Bob Iger and the WDC PR hacks for putting out the message that Disney is ending its gambling business, a lucrative one at that, in the wake of a recent New York Times piece that showed just how hypocritical Disney has been.

While Disney wants no part of any gambling business in order to continue to keep destination resorts out of Florida, Perlmutter ''loves the exposure'' that the slot machines (real in casinos and virtual online) and lottery tickets have given Marvel. He is especially pleased with the demos that use Marvel-licensed characters in gambling as they are largely the young male demographic that loves all things Marvel.

Now, he'll never get his way in the long run. Disney realizes how damaging Marvel and Lucas gambling licenses are to its BRAND, and now to its fight with Vegas gaming powers, but Ike is quite powerful and he isn't going to cower to Bob either.

This one is ugly. Shame we can't have a crystal ball and watch it all.

IMHO - It's just a matter of time before TWDC begins operating Casinos in FL, They are big money and once the gaming companies start on the FL government - DIsney will act first to make sure it continues it's very profitable ownership of the FL legislature.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I don't have a link handy, but --basically -- yes.

The big deal is Disney fighting gambling and talking about how it isn't family friendly while profiting off of it at the same time.

A big deal would be if Disney was fully aware of the gaming deals with Marvel (and Lucasfilm) and intended to maintain these deals to allow Disney access into the gaming market while hoping to keep Disney-only brands "frailly friendly" while also opposing gaming. This is the story that was insinuated earlier. Gaming being another anecdote in the larger story of Marvel and Disney clashing is far less interesting, especially since it is known that Marvel has a mass of existing licensing deals.

 

[COProgressFan]

I do agree about the latter. The parade is ancient and the pyro only slightly less so. One area where DL is staler than the MK.

True, but the rest of Disneyland at Christmas time is just so (magical?) that it more than makes up for it. Small World, Mansion, holiday entertainment, holiday F&B offerings, and unique decorations throughout the park make it a wonderful experience. Have you seen how horrid the MK tree looks compared to DL's tree? And the fact that it's all included in your regular ticket makes it even better.

If they were truly going to charge for holiday offerings, I think they would to at the very least need to update the parade and pyro show. Maybe they didn't want to do that, and that could be another reason for cancelling/delaying any upcharge?

 

[PorterRedkey]

Some people don't like hypocrisy in Big Business, others don't care. People can make their own decisions on this issue as they see fit. I don't like hypocrisy myself.

I am not a fan of hypocrisy. However, usually this is individual hypocrisy. An example would be a closeted gay Senator voting for anti-gay legislation.
Unfortunately, business is full of hypocrisy. Sometimes the business principals don't line up with the bank accounts.
Disney is near and dear to me (especially WDW) and even though I understand the motivation behind their two-faced position, I don't like it. Personally, I don't really give a crap about Marvel characters on slots. It is the strong-arm tactics and dishonesty that bother me. It breaks my heart how they are treating the parks and now this blotch on their face.

Spirit, do you object to the hypocrisy or the actual use of Marvel characters of gambling machines?

The movies are marketed to(considering a PG-13 rating): 13,14,15,16, and 17 year-old's, all who cannot gamble legally in a casino. The 18 - 99 year old, who sees the movie, can all legally play the slots. Now we all know that younger kids see the movies, but that is not Disney's fault. So should these characters, who are overwhelmingly seen by adults, not be used because there is a very small percentage who watch the films and cannot gamble? I am not so sure.

But, perhaps you are just more upset with the fact that Disney is tied to gambling in any form.



As usual, thanks for the information!

 

[PhotoDave219]

IMHO - It's just a matter of time before TWDC begins operating Casinos in FL, They are big money and once the gaming companies start on the FL government - DIsney will act first to make sure it continues it's very profitable ownership of the FL legislature.

It's not that cozy relationship anymore. Remember how a single State Sen. defeated Disney's previous bill last term Because they had the audacity to donate money to his opponent?

That being said, the Walt Disney Company has no business doing anything related to casino gambling. It's the polar opposite of what Disney means.

 

[stlphil]

For folks looking for Star Wars news or an announcement, looks like you'll have a bit of a wait as Iger wants a large stage on which he can crow and announce additions for DL and TPFKaTD-MGMS will at once ...and maybe a television or film announcement as well.

I have NO idea when this will be. Got some educated guesses, but I am sure you all can spitball just like I can.

I know this is a stretch, but given this mindset is there any chance they could act like Uni and start constructing something before an announcement?

For the record, I'm not really happy about the Star Wars-ification of Tomorrowland, but still think it would be better than the mess they have there now.

Note: edited to fix a glitch that garbled the message when it was originally posted.

 

[ToTBellHop]

I know this is a stretch, but given this mindset is there any chance they could act like Uni and start constructing something without an announcement?

For the record, I'm not really happy about the Star Wars-ification of Tomorrowland

They only do that for new DVCs. It's the only way to keep their Best Kept Secret.

 

[PhilharMagician]

IMHO - It's just a matter of time before TWDC begins operating Casinos in FL, They are big money and once the gaming companies start on the FL government - DIsney will act first to make sure it continues it's very profitable ownership of the FL legislature.

Yeah, they will add the city of Amsterdam, Netherlands to World Showcase in Epcot. They will have gambling, brothels and a full assortment of drugs for sale. It will probably be the best profit center in WDW.

 

[orky8]

That being said, the Walt Disney Company has no business doing anything related to casino gambling. It's the polar opposite of what Disney means.

I think its the polar opporite of what Disney used to mean. Iger's legacy has been to diminish the Disney brand by making it a holding company for great IP because he and most of his execs lack any actual creativity or vision to come up with the IP themselves. Marvel and Lucas are not Disney, they are just owned by Disney. The issue is not that Disney is involved with gambling -- that is clearly antithetical to what Disney means -- the issue is that Disney acquired Marvel, which is also antithetical to what Disney means (and Marvel does certainly fit with gambling).

The only exception to this is Pixar, which actually is more Disney than Disney is, which is not surprising because Lasseter is the most Disney person to have walked this earth since Walt. But, Pixar should have been part of Disney from the outset if not for the shortsightedness of certain invidivuals at the company.

 

[Travel Junkie]

True, but the rest of Disneyland at Christmas time is just so (magical?) that it more than makes up for it. Small World, Mansion, holiday entertainment, holiday F&B offerings, and unique decorations throughout the park make it a wonderful experience. Have you seen how horrid the MK tree looks compared to DL's tree? And the fact that it's all included in your regular ticket makes it even better.

If they were truly going to charge for holiday offerings, I think they would to at the very least need to update the parade and pyro show. Maybe they didn't want to do that, and that could be another reason for cancelling/delaying any upcharge?

Miceage is saying this morning that the suits at DLR know they would have to update the Fireworks and parade in order to justify to the public a separate hard ticket event. They decided to use the entertainment money allocated to them for their 60th Anniversary in 2015, instead of updating the Christmas parade and pyro. Good choice in my view.

I agree with you that overall DLR is a much better product at Christmas time. Nearly every land at DLR has something substantial along with the multiple ride overlays. At WDW it is more hit and miss.

 

[orky8]

The movies are marketed to(considering a PG-13 rating): 13,14,15,16, and 17 year-old's, all who cannot gamble legally in a casino. The 18 - 99 year old, who sees the movie, can all legally play the slots. Now we all know that younger kids see the movies, but that is not Disney's fault. So should these characters, who are overwhelmingly seen by adults, not be used because there is a very small percentage who watch the films and cannot gamble? I am not so sure.

Regardless of who the movies are targeted at, the merchandise is clearly targeted at a younger demographic. I saw countless 2, 3, 4, and 5 year old dressed as marvel characters this year for Halloween. At the end of the day, it's the parent's responsibility to monitor what their children watch and do (one could question the parenting style of someone who allows or encourages a three year old to dress as Iron Man, considering his character flaws). But, you'd be naive to think these characters aren't seen by and in fact specifically targeted at a much younger demographic.

 

[Captain Neo]

This whole gambling thing feels like a news style "Scandal". It's really a nonissue being blown out of proportion and on top of that Iger has already said he will be phasing out any licenses involving disney characters when it comes to gambling.

There are FAR bigger issues than that. Must be a slow news period.

 

[ford91exploder]

I think its the polar opporite of what Disney used to mean. Iger's legacy has been to diminish the Disney brand by making it a holding company for great IP because he and most of his execs lack any actual creativity or vision to come up with the IP themselves. Marvel and Lucas are not Disney, they are just owned by Disney. The issue is not that Disney is involved with gambling -- that is clearly antithetical to what Disney means -- the issue is that Disney acquired Marvel, which is also antithetical to what Disney means (and Marvel does certainly fit with gambling).

The only exception to this is Pixar, which actually is more Disney than Disney is, which is not surprising because Lasseter is the most Disney person to have walked this earth since Walt. But, Pixar should have been part of Disney from the outset if not for the shortsightedness of certain invidivuals at the company.

Agree and since gaming == oceans of cash I just cannot see Disney letting someone else collect that gaming cash especially in FL, Its truly pathetic that DIsney has devolved to a company that can be relied upon to chase cash irrespective of damage to the brand.

When DIsney said they were getting out of the Gaming space - they did not CANCEL the agreements and make the licensee whole as per contract, They simply stated they would not renew licenses which conveniently expire in 2017... So it's business as usual and plenty of time for TWDC to 'change their mind' on gaming.

 

[wannab@dis]

I don't have a link handy, but --basically -- yes.

The big deal is Disney fighting gambling and talking about how it isn't family friendly while profiting off of it at the same time.

Once again, your agenda doesn't fit the facts.

From the Times article...

Asked whether Disney’s ties to the gambling industry, through Marvel, undercut its position on casino gambling, a Marvel spokeswoman said last week that the company planned to shed its connection to slot machines when the various licensing agreements expire. On Saturday, the spokeswoman added that Marvel had signed its last slot machine deal two years ago.

Spider-Man, Iron Man, the Incredible Hulk and others will begin to disappear from casinos and Internet gambling sites over the next “few years,” the spokeswoman said.

“Marvel discontinued plans to initiate or renew slot machine licensing arrangements as part of its integration with Disney,” the spokeswoman said. “The handful of remaining license agreements have expiration dates within the next few years.”

The spokeswoman also said late Saturday that Marvel currently has no active lottery deals and does not plan to sign any new one.

No hypocrisy. In fact, just the opposite. Disney is working to align Marvel (and probably Lucas) with their stated policy.

 

[RSoxNo1]

For folks looking for Star Wars news or an announcement, looks like you'll have a bit of a wait as Iger wants a large stage on which he can crow and announce additions for DL and TPFKaTD-MGMS will at once ...and maybe a television or film announcement as well.

I have NO idea when this will be. Got some educated guesses, but I am sure you all can spitball just like I can.

New Years would make the most sense to me.