The New Fantasyland

[castevens]

We are all getting excited or disappointed at blue prints. Either way we don't know the full story or design of anything they are going to do. It may not be what you are looking for, but it could also be the best themed place you've ever seen. You never know what is gonna happen there until we see some true design and layouts of the lands. Its fun to speculate, but thats all it is for now.

Well that's exactly why we have internet boards such as this one. Speculation. But if and when this is built (whether it be twice as big as the leaked blueprints, exactly the blueprints, or scaled back) there will be people who like it and people who don't. Nothing will ever please everyone. Ever.

But until we know exactly what is going to happen, we'll either have to shut up, or speculate. Yeah, it's important to remain grounded and realize that these are unapproved (and potentially fake, but probably not) blueprints, but I love speculation.

 

[castevens]

Sorry I haven't read through the 65 pages on this topic, but I'd like to give my input.

I can't see Disney investing this much time and effort to completely revamp two lands at the Magic Kingdom when it's not necessary. MK pulls in over 17 million guests each year, more than both of Universal's parks added together! Why would they fix something if it's not broken? If anything, you'd spend this money investing in another park that's not doing as well (DAK?) to try and get more guests and money there. People will go to MK whether or not they redo Fantasyland, but if you add a new land to DAK, you'll get a bigger surge of people bringing in more new money.

From a business stand point, it doesn't make sense to me.

By that logic, Disney can put everyone on WDI on unpaid leave for a few years until attendance numbers start to drop.

Your logic is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." Their logic is "keep it from breaking in the first place"

 

[MAF]

After checking out the blue-prints, put me in the boat of people who are very excited! :drevil:

 

[Animaniac93-98]

By that logic, Disney can put everyone on WDI on unpaid leave for a few years until attendance numbers start to drop.

Your logic is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." Their logic is "keep it from breaking in the first place"

Not to mention the whole supply/demand concept and how MK should increase in size to handle the increasing crowds and get more money from them by offering new things (especially restaurants which are always packed) and encouraging repeat visits.

 

[DisneyDrum]

Sorry I haven't read through the 65 pages on this topic, but I'd like to give my input.

I can't see Disney investing this much time and effort to completely revamp two lands at the Magic Kingdom when it's not necessary. MK pulls in over 17 million guests each year, more than both of Universal's parks added together! Why would they fix something if it's not broken? If anything, you'd spend this money investing in another park that's not doing as well (DAK?) to try and get more guests and money there. People will go to MK whether or not they redo Fantasyland, but if you add a new land to DAK, you'll get a bigger surge of people bringing in more new money.

From a business stand point, it doesn't make sense to me.

From my perspective, it has a lot to do with pushing back against Harry Potter. Lots of people on the board like to poo-poo the franchise and it's possible staying power. However, I think this is really minimizing the possible impact-this won't be the opening of simply another ride. In the first few years the Potter area is open you're going to get a good chunk of people who are fans of potter making trips over to Universal. There's not much Disney can do to stop that.

However, what I bet Disney is worried about is Universal really pushing offers that keep people over there for their entire vacation. Universal could have people stay in their hotel, and get them a few days in the park to see Harry Potter and the other attractions. Disney might lose entirely out on a lot of these vacationers-especially if people say "well, we've already seen everything at Disney" Disney needs to give people a reason to split their trip up between Universal and Disney.

I'd bet that the flurry of news we've been hearing recently is Disney working on deciding what's the best way to entice folks to return. These major improvements are a good business decision not because the MK needs more attendance now-but because they'll be a weapon against potter in the next few years. I wouldn't want to report to investors when MK attendance falls year over year because of the competition....

 

[flynnibus]

I can't see Disney investing this much time and effort to completely revamp two lands at the Magic Kingdom when it's not necessary. MK pulls in over 17 million guests each year, more than both of Universal's parks added together! Why would they fix something if it's not broken?

No business operates by building for the future instanteously. It takes years for Disney to develop, build, and market projects. You can't wait until the wheels fell off before you start thinking about how to keep your business growing and successful. So while things may not have dropped TODAY, you can't wait until 4 years from now when thing may be worse... and then take 3-4 years to build something to fix the issue. You must be ahead of the curve.

And besides.. it's not like the MK is the thing everyone can't get enough of. The place hasn't had any significant expansion in decades. Even by Disney's standards that is eons.

 

[HMF]

Sorry I haven't read through the 65 pages on this topic, but I'd like to give my input.

I can't see Disney investing this much time and effort to completely revamp two lands at the Magic Kingdom when it's not necessary. MK pulls in over 17 million guests each year, more than both of Universal's parks added together! Why would they fix something if it's not broken? If anything, you'd spend this money investing in another park that's not doing as well (DAK?) to try and get more guests and money there. People will go to MK whether or not they redo Fantasyland, but if you add a new land to DAK, you'll get a bigger surge of people bringing in more new money.

From a business stand point, it doesn't make sense to me.

"Disneyland will never be completed. It will continue to grow as long as there is imagination left in the world." --Walt Disney

 

[Captain Chaos]

Sorry I haven't read through the 65 pages on this topic, but I'd like to give my input.

I can't see Disney investing this much time and effort to completely revamp two lands at the Magic Kingdom when it's not necessary. MK pulls in over 17 million guests each year, more than both of Universal's parks added together! Why would they fix something if it's not broken? If anything, you'd spend this money investing in another park that's not doing as well (DAK?) to try and get more guests and money there. People will go to MK whether or not they redo Fantasyland, but if you add a new land to DAK, you'll get a bigger surge of people bringing in more new money.

From a business stand point, it doesn't make sense to me.

Please take no offense but I will assume you either work for TDO with this mindset or you are not a manager in any large corporation... The "it ain't broke don't fix it" mentality is a great way to DESTROY business... Thing is, MK is broke.... You cannot go on numbers alone.. You have to constantly refresh and update your products... If everyone went with the ain't broke don't fix it attitude we wouldn't have computers, next gen gaming consoles, Blu Ray, High Definition, DVDs, CD, etc...

 

[Captain Chaos]

"Disneyland will never be completed. It will continue to grow as long as there is imagination left in the world." --Walt Disney

Ohh yea, and this philosophy from Walt himself too

 

[Walter Yensid]

I agree with what everyone has been saying. I think it is vital to continue to improve each park and show 'new' and exciting things.

Quite honestly, I do not think the Fantasyland revamp is directly attacking Potter nor does it do anything to alter the success Potter will have. I think it is more taking advantage of that extremely strong (and growing)Princess/Fairy franchise and strengthening Disney's hold on the pre-tween girl market.

My personal opinion is Harry Potter is not going to affect MK at all. I feel its impact will be on the other Disney parks. MK is a fixture and anyone going down to Orlando will, in most cases, jump over to MK even if it has not had much added. But, people going to Potter only have a set number of days on their vacation and there is no doubt they might trade a day from DHS, Epcot, or DAK for it. Or possible, trade all the days.

The only way to fight fire is with fire. And I think the one new attraction that could have an impact is Star Tours 2.0. You are talking about another franchise that succeeds in the same demographics. SW might be a little more male-oriented where HP is a split, but SW has lasted the strength of time and continues to draw in young kids at SW weekend, movies, etc. I think Disney should focus on getting Star Tours 2.0 up and going and if it is anything like the rumors out there of different ride experiences each time, you have a better impact. Yes, I know Star Tours is one ride, but most of this comes down to PR/Hoopla and I think Star Tours could help with a tremendous amount of talk and excitement. Not blunt HP, just impact...now, you make that whole Indy/ST section Star Wars...now you are talking about a battle. IMO, Star Wars is the stronger franchise...as it stands now. What a battle that would be...

 

[janoimagine]

From a business stand point, it doesn't make sense to me.

Walt was notorious for doing things that didn't make sense from a business standpoint. It's good to see a bit of that making a comeback.

 

[Slowjack]

Walt was notorious for doing things that didn't make sense from a business standpoint. It's good to see a bit of that making a comeback.

To be fair, it's more accurate to say that Walt was notorious for suggesting things that other people didn't think made business sense. Many of his ventures involved "betting the company" on an idea that seemed unlikely to others to be profitable, but that Walt thought would make money.

Or maybe another way to put it and is that Walt believed in big ideas with long-term payoffs, whereas the current crop of Disney execs often seem too focused on this year's bottom line and not too concerned about what happens years from now. I think the Fantasyland makeover, if it comes to pass, does make long-term business sense. MK attendence is skewing younger and younger, and it makes sense for the park to accommodate that. The LM ride and all the meet-and-greets will greatly improve the guest experience for the youngest guests and their parents, and this in turn will benefit the bottom line in repeat business.

 

[tomman710]

However, what I bet Disney is worried about is Universal really pushing offers that keep people over there for their entire vacation. Universal could have people stay in their hotel, and get them a few days in the park to see Harry Potter and the other attractions. Disney might lose entirely out on a lot of these vacationers-especially if people say "well, we've already seen everything at Disney" Disney needs to give people a reason to split their trip up between Universal and Disney.

I'd bet that the flurry of news we've been hearing recently is Disney working on deciding what's the best way to entice folks to return. These major improvements are a good business decision not because the MK needs more attendance now-but because they'll be a weapon against potter in the next few years. I wouldn't want to report to investors when MK attendance falls year over year because of the competition....

People thought the same thing would happen with IoA it didn't. HP won't affect Disney's numbers at all in fact Harry Potter will bring Potter fans to Orlando BUT that could be a good thing for Disney World because nobody comes to Orlando and does not visit Disney World. However, many many many people come and don't ever think about Universal. Realistically though the impact on Disney will be none.

It's the nature of the beast.

Now that being said, keep moving forward ... they still have plenty of room for growth and should add more attractions etc ...

 

[JustInTime]

People thought the same thing would happen with IoA it didn't. HP won't affect Disney's numbers at all in fact Harry Potter will bring Potter fans to Orlando BUT that could be a good thing for Disney World because nobody comes to Orlando and does not visit Disney World. However, many many many people come and don't ever think about Universal. Realistically though the impact on Disney will be none.

It's the nature of the beast.

Not that being said ... they still have plenty of room for growth and should add more attractions etc ...

I have been to Disney world 5 times and I have never personally considered Uni. Why whould I spend the time and money at Uni when I could spend it at Disney? The only way they are going to get me in that park is Harry Potter. :fork:

 

[castevens]

People thought the same thing would happen with IoA it didn't. HP won't affect Disney's numbers at all in fact Harry Potter will bring Potter fans to Orlando BUT that could be a good thing for Disney World because nobody comes to Orlando and does not visit Disney World. However, many many many people come and don't ever think about Universal. Realistically though the impact on Disney will be none.

It's the nature of the beast.

Now that being said, keep moving forward ... they still have plenty of room for growth and should add more attractions etc ...

I think it might be at least a bit of a threat for a couple of reasons:

1) Incentives. Universal will most likely announce major incentives to keep people at their parks longer, or for the entire course of their stay at Disney. This may involve:

• Hotel incentives - Perhaps guests will still visit Disney, but their accommodation $$ will not being going to Disney resorts.
• Park pass incentives - If it's only $2 more to go for 3 days to Universal than 2 days, people will buy that. That's one less day that they can spend at Disney unless they extend their vacation ($$)
• Ride incentives - want a Universal Express Plus Pass? Just stay at one of our hotels for a week and buy a 5 day or more pass to our parks

2) Time. Most people don't have the luxury of extending their vacation just because Harry Potter Land was built. If they were going to spend 7 days in Orlando before, they're probably going to spend 7 days in Orlando now. If 1, 2, or even 3 of those days are spent in Universal, those are days that cannot be spent at WDW. Maybe they were planning on visiting MK x 2, Epcot x 2, AK x 1, DHS x 1 and IOA x 1, but now because it's IOA x 2, one of those Disney days will have to go away.

Anyway, I'm just saying that more people will be taking time OUT of their WDW stays as opposed to making a specific trip to WWoHP and adding in some time at WDW because they happen to be in Orlando.

Having said that, I doubt this will hurt Disney's numbers *significantly* and I don't see this being any more than a short term threat. But I wouldn't go so far as to say that it will not affect Disney's number at all.

 

[flynnibus]

Part of the reason we didn't goto UO on our last trip is just the opposite of what you describe - UO isn't really cost effective to just head on over for a day or two. At $90+ a person its expensive for a short visit. Sure its a value if you go there for 3+ days... but unless you are making Universal the center of your trip.. or are saying for like 10+ days.. are you going to do that?

I wish UO could 'lure' people into trying UO by offering some cheap rate to visit UO for just a day if you were a WDW visitor. But I don't see that happening.

It's just a really expensive 'side trip'. If it were more affordable as a diversion, we would have gone. Disney's ticket model really drives this point (and is exactly why they do it). When it costs you $5 to spend that day at Disney, vs. $90 at UO... it's damn hard to commit to UO.

 

[castevens]

Part of the reason we didn't goto UO on our last trip is just the opposite of what you describe - UO isn't really cost effective to just head on over for a day or two. At $90+ a person its expensive for a short visit. Sure its a value if you go there for 3+ days... but unless you are making Universal the center of your trip.. or are saying for like 10+ days.. are you going to do that?

I wish UO could 'lure' people into trying UO by offering some cheap rate to visit UO for just a day if you were a WDW visitor. But I don't see that happening.

It's just a really expensive 'side trip'. If it were more affordable as a diversion, we would have gone. Disney's ticket model really drives this point (and is exactly why they do it). When it costs you $5 to spend that day at Disney, vs. $90 at UO... it's damn hard to commit to UO.

That was exactly my point. I feel as though UO has yet to role out their monetary incentives, but when they do, and it's not much more expensive to stay long as to stay a short amount of time -- people will likely stay long.

But UO will not have to, as you suggest, lure people there by offering cheap packages to Disney guests. Harry Potter will do the luring. Universal just has to figure out a way to get them to STAY.

 

[Studios Fan]

That was exactly my point. I feel as though UO has yet to role out their monetary incentives, but when they do, and it's not much more expensive to stay long as to stay a short amount of time -- people will likely stay long.

But UO will not have to, as you suggest, lure people there by offering cheap packages to Disney guests. Harry Potter will do the luring. Universal just has to figure out a way to get them to STAY.

One main problem that UO has is that they will have to be careful with their incentives because they have some serious financial obligations coming up. It's not like the park is going to close, but it will probably hurt their own future expansion unless HP just brings in people in droves. It really is a double-edged sword for them. For Disney, it could have an impact on DHS and DAK, the worst. For us fans, that's probably good because maybe Disney will put more investment (rides, etc.) into those parks.

 

[flynnibus]

and it's not much more expensive to stay long as to stay a short amount of time -- people will likely stay long.

Or just not go at all...


I think their high up front cost hurts them because I think UO's challenge is not getting people to stay, but to try them out period.

Disney's high 1 day and falling multiple day pricing is designed to keep you there. UO's problem is they can't convince people to come at all to start. They can't use the 'keep them longer' pricing strategy that Disney uses which is why IMO the $100 UO ticket offering is not that attractive. I don't want to spend 5 days at UO.. so the idea that it's cheap to do so doesn't mean anything to me.

Their hotel bundlings were a good start - but I think they should be more creative in actually directly trying to leech Disney visitors (free transportation to/from Disney, discount if you have a Disney ticket, etc). But I'm sure the Mouse would fight back with deadly blows if UO were to directly target on-property Disney guests.

But that is the egg that UO must crack IMHO - how to get someone to spend 2 days at UO as part of their Disney package.

People may think they want to goto UO - but when they find out how hard/expensive it is to do so from their Disney vacation... they will retreat from the idea. UO should try cracking that problem.

 

[castevens]

One main problem that UO has is that they will have to be careful with their incentives because they have some serious financial obligations coming up. It's not like the park is going to close, but it will probably hurt their own future expansion unless HP just brings in people in droves. It really is a double-edged sword for them. For Disney, it could have an impact on DHS and DAK, the worst. For us fans, that's probably good because maybe Disney will put more investment (rides, etc.) into those parks.

Yeah, that's very true. And to be perfectly honest, I don't think UO is in a good position at all, no matter WHAT they do. They will get a ton of people to come to the park for the Harry Potter land because the entirety of the Earth loves Harry Potter, but many/most may not return. They just want to see it, which is great for UO, but I feel as though a majority of them may not return. In order to get them to return, UO will have to built more under the concept of "if you build it they will come," but they are quickly running out of room.