The NEW Epcot

[KaliSplash]

Epcot Today:

I hear Living Seas is better with Nemo. It needs a story that carries you through the pavilion.

Waiting for The Land: Looking forward to Soaring. Hate that they ditched the original song from Listen to the Land. Hate that they dropped Food Rocks. Hate that they dropped Kitchen Kabaret. Glad that they changed the movie.

JIYI is a poor replacement for the original. Image Works is missed. Honey I Shrunk the Audience is the best show that's been in that theater.

Ellen's version of Universe of Energy is better than original, except I miss the two original songs.

I still like Wonders of Life. I'm sorry more people obviously didn't. Cranium Command is still one of the funniest shows I've seen.

I love Mission Space, I wish it hadn't come at the expense of Horizons.

I Like Test Track. I wish it hadn't come at the expense of World of Motion.

I Love Spaceship Earth, but I prefer the Cronkite narration and music from that version, including Tomorrow's child.

I still haven't found anything compelling in Innoventions or Communicore.

I love World Showcase. I wish they would add Switzerland and Russia, especially. I wish they would build the German boat ride and the Japan COP-type show.

But I still love Epcot.

 

[DisneyJill]

Grizz, that initial reply was almost poetic. :lol: I concur.

And while I love the parts of Ellen's Energy Adventure that actually feature Ellen (let's face it, she's a riot), the rest of it (um, the radio room?) make me snooze. :snore: An update would be great!

 

[General Grizz]

Grizz, that initial reply was almost poetic. :lol: I concur.

And while I love the parts of Ellen's Energy Adventure that actually feature Ellen (let's face it, she's a riot), the rest of it (um, the radio room?) make me snooze. :snore: An update would be great!

Yes, the radio room is VERY tacky. It's kind of necessary in getting all of the cars realigned... better than nothing.

 

[mkepcotmgmak]

Yes, the radio room is VERY tacky. It's kind of necessary in getting all of the cars realigned... better than nothing.

theater in the round, with a cast of AA's would be great in my opinion!

thanks for the update grizz! any idea on when this MIGHT occur??

 

[mkepcotmgmak]

Yes, the radio room is VERY tacky. It's kind of necessary in getting all of the cars realigned... better than nothing.

it has been explained to me, but i still don't understand how these vehicles move, and are there two shows running at the same time? like... are there only three trains of vehicles, or six?

 

[DisneyJill]

it has been explained to me, but i still don't understand how these vehicles move, and are there two shows running at the same time? like... are there only three trains of vehicles, or six?

I wondered that too. Are there 2 shows going at once?

 

[launchpad03]

Epcot Today:
I still like Wonders of Life. I'm sorry more people obviously didn't. Cranium Command is still one of the funniest shows I've seen.

I do believe that those posts above that were dissatisfied with Wonders of Life also enjoy the pavillion immensely.

Only problem is, the pavillion is on "seasonal mode" now and is rarely open any more. Hard to appreciate the area when you can't go in it anymore.

 

[Captain Hank]

Interestingly enough, I wrote a final paper for my class on pop culture about Epcot's original educational techniques and how they are moving away from them. I can post the text of it here, if you want (It's 8 pages long )

 

[marni1971]

I wondered that too. Are there 2 shows going at once?

Yep - with 12 theatre cars (on a good day :lol: )

For a complete look at how the pavilion operates have a look at this excellent site http://www.energy.planet7.org/companion/top/intro.htm

Look under `pavilion` for specifics on how it all works

hcwalker - sounds like a good read, but I`m not sure where in the boards is the best place... maybe post it in the chit chat thread? Or ask an administrator where would they suggest? I`d like to read it.

 

[joel_maxwell]

When I see a living Innoventions, Epcot is still thriving.

unfortunately for me........ it seems everytime i go down for a visit, they are rehabing or changing out the exhibit........ in which always stinks! maybe ill get lucky one day.

all other points pretty good. havent experienced M:S yet..............

 

[General Grizz]

unfortunately for me........ it seems everytime i go down for a visit, they are rehabing or changing out the exhibit........ in which always stinks! maybe ill get lucky one day.

all other points pretty good. havent experienced M:S yet..............

It matters what part you visit. Whole new areas dealing with Plastics and Fires are now open - while other areas are being changed out.

A lot of the area bores me (i.e. Disney Interactive kids zone/nature/etc), but from what I have seen, there is some pretty cool new stuff there. It's constantly "alive," I guess, which is awesome for an 11 year old pavilion.

Not as innovative as Communicore, though.

 

[joel_maxwell]

Not as innovative as Communicore, though.

true.

yeh, i remember seeing the childrens/ kids stuff, but for ei: the plastics and fire exhibit are always between shows when i visit. so when i walk through im always bummed.

but im still optimistic that ill get down before these pack up and change.

 

[jaredliu]

For me, the most extraordinary move from old Epcot to a new one is Mission: Space. Not by the technology that it brings (since it's natural that technology will enhanced with time), but their willing to take the risk of having the compliant from lots of customers. Disney is the trade mark for family enjoyment, however Mission Space is not. If they want, they could make MS much less intense to the degree where every family member could enjoy, however that lose the spirit of Epcot: being real. Space travel is not a walking in the park, it is intense and not enjoyable. But Epcot is detailed at how they make the experience real rather than fun. I am glad that they made a clear statment that they will NOT slow down the epcot to make it less intense. I don't see how EOU or WOF is fun but they are more reailty-based. Experience at Epcot is so unique that Mission Space could be the epitome of that concept. I am glad this is not a vehicle with a track. But I do think SSE ,as the icon of Epcot, should bring more techology to "WOW" the fans and make it unlike any thrill ride or slow ride.

 

[marni1971]

I don't see how EOU or WOF is fun..

err... you mean UoE and WoL ??

Mission:Space is cutting edge attraction-technology wise, but a lot of people have a problem in that this was meant to be just PART of a much larger experience until budgets got cut. It has no depth, no sense of being... not even a backstory (hey - you`re a trainee. Go train)

Purely a few minutes of white knuckle adrenalin. At least Test Track (similar vein) offers you a big ride for your time in the queue.

The muted response from guests wasn`t as high as Disney had hoped for - not to mention bad press in Orlando and even the UK regarding side effects - Eisner wanted M:S to be cloneable; one in every park (or resort) to rake in the visitors cash with no more R&D. Since this dosn`t look like happening anytime soon it isn`t the ultimate ride TWDC was hoping it would be.

 

[ZHoyt]

Epcot is on a whole much better than the original that everyone here seems to love so much. The original UoE was the most mindnumbing thing attraction I've ever been on. WoM was fun, but was way too close to being a clone of SE. Horizons was great, but just like M:S was NOTHING BUT A RIDE. You came in, you stepped in the omnimover, you left. I love both Horizons and M:S, but I am glad M:S is there. Same with TT. EPCOT's biggest problem was originality. Almost every single attraction was an omnimover ride highlighting how great our lives were thanks to EPCOT's corporate sponsors. M:S is great because it has a sponsor, but the sponsor does not dominate the ride. And for those who complain about the TT post show, it is almost exactly like the post show of WOM with the gift shop added on.

I know this is a fairly rambling post, but honestly this board makes me crazy sometimes with everyone's love of retrocot. The fact is, the original EPCOT was a day long commercial for giant corporations and tourism boards. While this is still true to an extent, there have been many strides in the past to get away from this trend and I personally applaud it. Yay for diversity, yay for less commercials.

I may not love all of the changes from EPCOT to Epcot, but I think overall it is a giant step forward.

 

[SirGoofy]

E.P.C.O.T. was 1000x better than Epcot(Yes there is a difference). The rides of the old Epcot had a purpose, which the rides of the present lack. Unless you count making people sick a purpose. M:S is fun, but there is no imagination behind it, where Horizons was full of it. And speaking of imagination, the last two versions have lacked the pavillion's namesake. JIYI was about as fun as a dead puppy, and the new one is just too short to be any good. WOL is seasonal, and when it is open most of the pavillion is broken down or already been removed. Thank God that UOE and SSE are still there, cuz those are the only two rides left with their original intent still in place, but I fear how much longer they will be there.

 

[marni1971]

Each to their own ZHoyt... that`s what makes mankind unique. Difference of opinion. No offence intended.

The original EPCOT Center was a themed park where guests could be inspired, even educated, as Walt planned. If they could be bothered to try that is. The differences and problems of both EPCOT Center and Epcot are partly caused by a change in society in general. In todays world of 5 second commercials, Internet, fast food, fast living we seem to want everything now, or better sooner than now, spend the minimum ammount of time with it, then move on. Tv diners, convinience stores, shopping... even drive in ATM`s etc. all encourage us to get what we want quicker and quicker.

In the 80`s, things were slower paced (relativley) and travelling theatres, Animatronics, simulated trips into space and plants without water were all WOW factors. Today we are so much more blase about things, and expect so much more for less. We are more demanding, but at the same time are willing to commit less time and thought. As a society in general. Epcot today seems to be mirroring this, but at a detrement to the original concept.

I`m not saying nothing should change, indeed if we were still told Its Fun to be Free, how computers make life easier and what Symbiosis really means then todays parks problems would really be serious. Its the spirit, the driving force, the ideal of EPCOT Center that is becoming lost, and as a result we have a Futureworld without an identity, without a defining theme. In short, a mess.

Just remember - Oil Shale. The rock that burns.

 

[he-guy]

WHAT?!?!? How can you not like IllumiNations? That show is AWESOME! (in my opinion...)

I second that, what fireworks type show can compete with the entire Illuminations setting.... .... still waiting.. ... nothing? Ok, agreed, nothing. Yes, Disney takes the simple concept of fireworks, and makes them better with Disney Fireworks, but Illuminations has fountains, fire, and and earth that plays videos. :sohappy:

And to add to Grizz's +/- of Epcot, he forgot to mention Food and Wine Festival and Off Kilter as definate plusses of Epcot.

 

[ZHoyt]

The original EPCOT Center was a themed park where guests could be inspired, even educated, as Walt planned.

Marni- I respect your opinions, but be honest. Walt planned EPCOT as a utopian city. Not a theme park. After Walt died, Corporate Disney was born. EPCOT is the epitome of CD. When Walt died, CD didn't have any idea of what to do, so they stole the name of something that was his dream to give an idea credibility to something that had nothing to do with the man.

As far as the rest of your post, it really didn't address any of the issues I brought up. Everyone claims EPCOT is losing it's core vision. I really don't see that as true. Test Track is every bit as educational as WOM. Horizon's had little to no educational value. It was entertaining, but that's it. M:S may not be a classroom on a track, but it is at least as if not more educational than Horizons.

On M:S, everyone complains about M:S dividing the family. I really see this as a problem with marketing. M:S is portrayed as much worse than it actually is in ads. Although it must be noted that the commercial does feature young children. I personally think it is a great family ride, if everyone is brave enough. Working together to pilot a spaceship is a wonderful family experience. Just my two cents.

I'm not trying to flame or anything, I just want to get some people here to seriously evaluate the quality of EPCOT Center. Was it really so amazing or are there some serious nostalgia and bandwagon factors kicking in here?

 

[marni1971]

ZHoyt - I totally agree with your comments about E.P.C.O.T. and EPCOT Center. For want of a better word, Walt Disney Productions did the dirty on a lot of people when they didn`t build a prototype community of tomorrow. In many ways, their reasons were very valid, but in changing their ideas after gaining the Reedy Creek Charter, having the state pay for so much infrastructure work etc seems even today to say `thanks for our own government, now we will build a theme park, not a city, to make more money`.

Not wishing to sound harsh (I would never do that, not to Walt) but he left behind a huge problem with no soloution. Maybe E.P.C.O.T was a good idea, but as a separate entity from WDW, even from Orlando. Building it in WDW was a no win situation, and WDP knew this. And so the plans changed bit by bit, with the corporate sponsored industrial park becoming a corporate sponsored theme park (although sponsorship was nothing new.. who helped paid for Disneyland?) until in 1975 the bombshell dropped, funnily enough at a convention in The Contemporary Resort. EPCOT will be a themepark. No community. I`m a great believer in the real E.P.C.O.T was already everywhere in WDW, but that`s for another thread.

EPCOT Center in the 80`s was factual, educational, and fun. Test Track is technically a fantastic ride, for example, but what merit to the majority of people does how cars are tested have compared to the evoloution of transport as a whole?

Perhaps if EPCOT Center had been called something else, perhaps if things had taken a different direction, things would be different. Todays Epcot is being fragmented by its very roots.

Horizons offered a hopeful glimpse into the future, a collection of all the themes in futureworld. It became greater than the sum of its parts, it had the original `Disney` feel to it - promising story, fantastic theming, deep backstory and an easy to follow, immersive storyline, told out in great sets, Animatronics, special effects, and provided so much `food for thought` long after you had ridden it. I`m not saying it would be the same today, indeed even if the theme (and building) was to have remained the whole lot needed a HUGE refurb, but to replace it with a smaller attraction that gives a big bang for a few minutes, then is instantly forgettable, is plain wrong. It wasn`t necessarily the nuts and bolts of the ride that meant so much, it was the emmotion, the lasting memories of the people and lifestyles it portrayed that made its mark. TT, M:S, Soarin` and EEA all sufer from this - they are great, if not superb, rides for what they are, for 30 minutes or so, but are shallow and seriously lacking in emmotion and lasting impressions.

I loved EPCOT Center the 3 times I was fortunate to visit it before it lost its way - so much so I made a scale model of it 18 years ago (was it THAT long ago!!) and yes I do miss it. I would be a fool though to wish it was exactly the same. My point is a lot of the changes have not been uniform, have dilluted the theme to the point of non existance, and have been cheap alternatives to the changes that could have (and were proposed to have) been made.

Epcot 2005 is a great park, but is much less than it used to be. That is the real pity.

Nice discussion! No flames received. And thank you ZHoyt for a measured, polite response.