The new articulated bendy Bus

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Once again not up to Disney. The Asian parks come up to Disney and say hey we want a new park or new attraction or new parade. Disney sends their Imagineers over and the company that owns the Disney Parks pays about 75% of the cost.
Not quite. The Oriental Land Company pays 100% of the costs as they own 100% of the resort. The Chinese parks are supposed to split costs based on the respective ownership stakes (Hong Kong is 52/48 and Shanghai is 57/43). The recent three lands at Hong Kong Disneyland were an exception and paid 100% by Disney as the Government of Hong Kong felt that Disney did not adequately invest in the initial building of the park.
 

Voxel

President of Progress City
Not quite. The Oriental Land Company pays 100% of the costs as they own 100% of the resort. The Chinese parks are supposed to split costs based on the respective ownership stakes (Hong Kong is 52/48 and Shanghai is 57/43). The recent three lands at Hong Kong Disneyland were an exception and paid 100% by Disney as the Government of Hong Kong felt that Disney did not adequately invest in the initial building of the park.
Very true. I was just averaging out the numbers for ease of quickness of typing it out.
 

Timon

Well-Known Member
[quote="Bryansworld, post: 5873265, member: 14088 I'm sure a monorail expansion would be less expensive than yet another new overseas park.

There has been may threads on the monorail and no it wouldn't be cost effective, I would like to a functioning people mover system sending people all over WDW but that won't be happening either. The amount of people shuffled around is huge and buses are the cost effective way to it.[/quote]

So if the Oriental Land Company runs Disney parks better than the Disney people do why would they put in a state-of-the-art monorail system vs buying 500 polluting buses?
 

Voxel

President of Progress City
There has been may threads on the monorail and no it wouldn't be cost effective, I would like to a functioning people mover system sending people all over WDW but that won't be happening either. The amount of people shuffled around is huge and buses are the cost effective way to it.

So if the Oriental Land Company runs Disney parks better than the Disney people do why would they put in a state-of-the-art monorail system vs buying 500 polluting buses?[/quote]
Possibly due to the fact that massive train transportation is very successful in Japan. In fact if a train is more then 5 minutes late some lines give you a ticket to give to your employer to explain your tardiness. The average train is 28 seconds late in Japan, if I remember a recent statistic. Also if I am not mistaken you pay to ride the Monorail in Disney Tokyo.
 

CDavid

Well-Known Member
In fact if a train is more then 5 minutes late some lines give you a ticket to give to your employer to explain your tardiness. The average train is 28 seconds late in Japan, if I remember a recent statistic. Also if I am not mistaken you pay to ride the Monorail in Disney Tokyo.

What does Japanese train punctuality have to do with the choice of bus or monorail as a mode of transportation?
 

Voxel

President of Progress City
What does Japanese train punctuality have to do with the choice of bus or monorail as a mode of transportation?
I was just mention its as a random factoid. Its my nature sorry, but the message remains the same. Japanense culture loves trains more then American culture. In fact a majority of people in America have never been on a train but almost everyone has been on a bus. In Japan Trains are the buses. Hence Why Disney Tokyo would agree with the idea of placing a monorail, and having a train station outside the park.
 

MaryJaneP

Well-Known Member
I was just mention its as a random factoid. Its my nature sorry, but the message remains the same. Japanense culture loves trains more then American culture. In fact a majority of people in America have never been on a train but almost everyone has been on a bus. In Japan Trains are the buses. Hence Why Disney Tokyo would agree with the idea of placing a monorail, and having a train station outside the park.

I think this misses the point that many (most?) of the guests at WDW are culturally inclined to accept, if not expect, a train ride, whether it be on the monorail or railroad around MK. Given the transportation attractions at the other parks (rockets, hang glider, roller coasters, elevators, spaceships, river rafts, trains), I also question the bendy bus solution as merely a cost saving, polluting, stop gap band aid and expect better from TDO. My mistake.
 

Voxel

President of Progress City
I think this misses the point that many (most?) of the guests at WDW are culturally inclined to accept, if not expect, a train ride, whether it be on the monorail or railroad around MK. Given the transportation attractions at the other parks (rockets, hang glider, roller coasters, elevators, spaceships, river rafts, trains), I also question the bendy bus solution as merely a cost saving, polluting, stop gap band aid and expect better from TDO. My mistake.
I am not saying this is right or wrong. Nor am I supporting TDO's actions. I was just stating a reason why the Oriental Land Company (Disney Tokyo) was more quick to build a monorail transportation system.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Not a bad looking fleet in my opinion. I'd like to know how much additional training is needed to drive one. Personally my heart is with the monorails and seeing them upgraded but I'll take a new looking bus fleet for the time being...
Not very much really. The way they are designed they track pretty close to the center set of wheels, maybe a little more, but not much. All it takes is someone with a bit of experience handling a 40 foot straight body and they can quickly master the articulated buses. The only nightmare, if you want to call it that is backing up, but, like most bus operations they plan things to keep backing to a minimum, they avoid backing like the plague. So, it shouldn't be a big problem they don't take much more room to turn then the old buses.
 

Timon

Well-Known Member
I was just mention its as a random factoid. Its my nature sorry, but the message remains the same. Japanense culture loves trains more then American culture. In fact a majority of people in America have never been on a train but almost everyone has been on a bus. In Japan Trains are the buses. Hence Why Disney Tokyo would agree with the idea of placing a monorail, and having a train station outside the park.
Being familiar with buses doesn't mean you like them, they may be just the only choice. The buses have nothing magical or "Disney" to them like the monorails and boats.
 

AndyS2992

Well-Known Member
Being familiar with buses doesn't mean you like them, they may be just the only choice. The buses have nothing magical or "Disney" to them like the monorails and boats.
How so? Just because monorails and boats are a novelty you don't get back at home doesn't necessarily make them any more or less 'magical' than any other mode of Disney transport. I like riding the buses.. when they aren't crowded.
 
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Timon

Well-Known Member
Monorails and boats are exciting because I don't see them in my everyday life. Disney's boats and monorails have style and are unique. If you have a choice of a Motor Launch, Monorail or Bus to get to the Polynesian from the MK and crowds are not a factor on any vehicle which would you choose? Buses are always my last choice, they are just so boring. FYI I'd pick the boat.

Unique - Miss this one.
WDW%2520Boats%2520-%2520Southern%2520Seas%2520II%252007%2520Aug%25201981.jpg
 

relots

Member
Not very much really. The way they are designed they track pretty close to the center set of wheels, maybe a little more, but not much. All it takes is someone with a bit of experience handling a 40 foot straight body and they can quickly master the articulated buses. The only nightmare, if you want to call it that is backing up, but, like most bus operations they plan things to keep backing to a minimum, they avoid backing like the plague. So, it shouldn't be a big problem they don't take much more room to turn then the old buses.
Well I guess having experience driving a school bus would constitute as having experience with a 40ft straight vehicle. Not exactly my dream job but if I had to do it to get into Disney I would ;)
 

thehowiet

Wilson King of Prussia
Monorails and boats are exciting because I don't see them in my everyday life. Disney's boats and monorails have style and are unique. If you have a choice of a Motor Launch, Monorail or Bus to get to the Polynesian from the MK and crowds are not a factor on any vehicle which would you choose? Buses are always my last choice, they are just so boring. FYI I'd pick the boat.

Unique - Miss this one.
WDW%2520Boats%2520-%2520Southern%2520Seas%2520II%252007%2520Aug%25201981.jpg

I couldn't agree more. To me what today's management misses and that the old guard understood was that ALL of WDW was the stage. Any place a guest could go and how they got there was part of the show. Of course even the old management wasn't perfect, but they sure tried a heck of a lot harder than what we see today.

Monorails, watercraft like Southern Seas, etc., were great for the exact reason that you already stated: They weren't part of your everyday life and didn't just take you to a physical location but also to a mental destination. There isn't anything exciting, fun, magical, or unique about being picked up by a city bus at AKL and being taken to MK, even if they call it a "motor coach."

If TWDC is so dead set on sticking with buses at WDW, at the very least make a small attempt to create something even slightly interesting, like the buses at Tokyo Disneyland. I'm not saying larger versions of those are the answer (I'd prefer something a little less Mickey), but at least use some creativity. I'd love to see monorails, peoplemovers, and/or other trains moving guests across property, but I know that will never happen so at least throw us a bone and make the buses cool. Sometimes I forget that this is actually the same company that built EPCOT Center and were pioneers in almost every aspect of all things entertainment.

disney_resort_cruiser.jpg
 

Timon

Well-Known Member
I couldn't agree more. To me what today's management misses and that the old guard understood was that ALL of WDW was the stage. Any place a guest could go and how they got there was part of the show. Of course even the old management wasn't perfect, but they sure tried a heck of a lot harder than what we see today.

Monorails, watercraft like Southern Seas, etc., were great for the exact reason that you already stated: They weren't part of your everyday life and didn't just take you to a physical location but also to a mental destination. There isn't anything exciting, fun, magical, or unique about being picked up by a city bus at AKL and being taken to MK, even if they call it a "motor coach."

If TWDC is so dead set on sticking with buses at WDW, at the very least make a small attempt to create something even slightly interesting, like the buses at Tokyo Disneyland. I'm not saying larger versions of those are the answer (I'd prefer something a little less Mickey), but at least use some creativity. I'd love to see monorails, peoplemovers, and/or other trains moving guests across property, but I know that will never happen so at least throw us a bone and make the buses cool. Sometimes I forget that this is actually the same company that built EPCOT Center and were pioneers in almost every aspect of all things entertainment.

disney_resort_cruiser.jpg
Well said! And that TDL bus does have a geeky kind of cool, a little less Mickey would be just right.
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
For those pushing monorails:

How do you realistically propose moving 100-150k people around property all day, every day?

How expansive of a rail system are you proposing?
 

Voxel

President of Progress City
For those pushing monorails:

How do you realistically propose moving 100-150k people around property all day, every day?

How expansive of a rail system are you proposing?
This is a very true point many people ignore. The 28 miles Silver line from DC to Dulles airport cost 6.8 Billion dollars. To create a full rail system at Disney is a lot harder then to build a road. They are going to have to deal with environmental aspects of building supports in locations and we haven't even gotten into the cost of building new housings for these locomotives, stations, and the engines them selves. Your easily talking about a $10 Billion project at a minimum
A $500 Million dollar project that goes over budget is normal.. Could you imagine if a $10 Billion dollar project went over budget the same way MM+ did. $40 Billion dollars. No company wan'ts to picture that.
 

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