The Muppets Present… Great Moments in American History'

[DisneyJeff]

According to my bus driver friend, they will be adding Statler and Waldorf to the roof of HOP. It will be an interactive thing along the lines of Mr. Potato Head and Turtle Talk w/ Crush. They will be hurling insults at guests at they walk by.

 

[Sportsphan95]

I don't see Disney abandoning the tradition of the Hall of Presidents figures . . . perhaps the video at the beginning gets overlayed with Sam the Eagle. Heck, the end scene of MuppetVision 3D would fit into Liberty Square.

 

[Phicinfan]

I don't see Disney abandoning the tradition of the Hall of Presidents figures . . . perhaps the video at the beginning gets overlayed with Sam the Eagle. Heck, the end scene of MuppetVision 3D would fit into Liberty Square.

I don't think this will effect HoP at all inside. this would be some added attraction outside in liberty square or some area near HoP.

 

[Magenta Panther]

I don't see Disney abandoning the tradition of the Hall of Presidents figures . . . perhaps the video at the beginning gets overlayed with Sam the Eagle. Heck, the end scene of MuppetVision 3D would fit into Liberty Square.

Right. Because that wouldn't change the tone of the show or the area AT ALL.

Let me try to explain: Liberty Square is not meant to be a parody of patriotism. It's about the best parts of real patriotism and a celebration of the history of our country. The eagle puppet is a caricature of jingoism (definition: the feelings and beliefs of people who think that their country is always right and who are in favor of aggressive acts against other countries). Kind of a clash there between what that character represents and what Liberty Square represents, eh? I guess I can only hope you can discern that difference, now that it's been clearly explained to you. Because it's evident that you never understood the purpose of Liberty Square at all. To you, it 's probably just an area filled with old-timey houses (boring!) and obviously needs hand puppets to keep you from sleepwalking through it. Sorry for the sarcasm, but seriously...putting the eagle puppet in the video in the Hall of Presidents?

 

[Magenta Panther]

I don't think this will effect HoP at all inside. this would be some added attraction outside in liberty square or some area near HoP.

It would effect the entire character of Liberty Square. What is it about that you don't get?

 

[Phicinfan]

It would effect the entire character of Liberty Square. What is it about that you don't get?

That I don't agree with you. Yes, if you look at it in a staid or set pattern, I see your point. Please point out to me where Disney has ever stuck with the staid or set pattern on things? Heck we have Frozen going to Norway now.

My point is this, yes there is a "traditional" feel to Liberty Square. I would never debate that. I just don't see the negativity to adding something outside using a Muppet tie in(Sam the Eagle isn't all that bad) to gain more popularity and tie in more kids interest.

Heck I would LOVE to see a Johny Tremain tie in...but most don't ever remember that movie existed.

 

[Magenta Panther]

That I don't agree with you. Yes, if you look at it in a staid or set pattern, I see your point. Please point out to me where Disney has ever stuck with the staid or set pattern on things? Heck we have Frozen going to Norway now.

My point is this, yes there is a "traditional" feel to Liberty Square. I would never debate that. I just don't see the negativity to adding something outside using a Muppet tie in(Sam the Eagle isn't all that bad) to gain more popularity and tie in more kids interest.

Heck I would LOVE to see a Johny Tremain tie in...but most don't ever remember that movie existed.

But shoving Frozen into Norway is a dumb idea. The Muppets in Liberty Square is also a dumb idea. One doesn't cancel the other out. And I disagree that putting Muppets into Liberty Square is somehow going to make it more popular. The Magic Kingdom gets incredibly high attendance as it is. Liberty Square doesn't "need" something like this. And, as others here on this message board have often pointed out - why does EVERYTHING in a Disney park have to be geared towards kids? Does everything have to be dumbed down for them? Remember that Walt meant for Disneyland (and by extension, any other Disney park) to be for everyone, and by "everyone" he didn't mean "make everything childish so it can be enjoyed by kids and tolerated by indulgent adults".

As for Johnny Tremain, heck YEAH that would be great in Liberty Square. And so would Ichabod Crane and Sleepy Hollow. Those entities would fit into the character of Liberty Square and expand its appeal in an appropriate manner. But forget it. Those things would be a tad too classy (and costly) for the current dunderheads at Disney parks planning to even consider...

 

[seabreezept813]

But shoving Frozen into Norway is a dumb idea. The Muppets in Liberty Square is also a dumb idea. One doesn't cancel the other out. And I disagree that putting Muppets into Liberty Square is somehow going to make it more popular. The Magic Kingdom gets incredibly high attendance as it is. Liberty Square doesn't "need" something like this. And, as others here on this message board have often pointed out - why does EVERYTHING in a Disney park have to be geared towards kids? Does everything have to be dumbed down for them? Remember that Walt meant for Disneyland (and by extension, any other Disney park) to be for everyone, and by "everyone" he didn't mean "make everything childish so it can be enjoyed by kids and tolerated by indulgent adults".

As for Johnny Tremain, heck YEAH that would be great in Liberty Square. And so would Ichabod Crane and Sleepy Hollow. Those entities would fit into the character of Liberty Square and expand its appeal in an appropriate manner. But forget it. Those things would be a tad too classy (and costly) for the current dunderheads at Disney parks planning to even consider...

I have to agree here. When you underestimate kids and don't allow them to have alternative experiences, you end up with very close-minded adults. I teach English so should I throw out the classics because kids prefer the Hunger Games? Or better yet just let them choose not to read at all. Instead I balance it. I let the kids read the fun, modern books in a book club setting and still teach Shakespeare and Homer. The parks have typically been great about having a balance, but seem to be moving away from this type of model. Plus it's nice to have an area with less stroller traffic.

 

[PhotoDave219]

According to my bus driver friend, they will be adding Statler and Waldorf to the roof of HOP. It will be an interactive thing along the lines of Mr. Potato Head and Turtle Talk w/ Crush. They will be hurling insults at guests at they walk by.

View attachment 137278

...... I'm fine with that.

 

[hopemax]

I have to agree here. When you underestimate kids and don't allow them to have alternative experiences, you end up with very close-minded adults. I teach English so should I throw out the classics because kids prefer the Hunger Games? Or better yet just let them choose not to read at all. Instead I balance it. I let the kids read the fun, modern books in a book club setting and still teach Shakespeare and Homer. The parks have typically been great about having a balance, but seem to be moving away from this type of model. Plus it's nice to have an area with less stroller traffic.

And some kids are just into different things. I remember, several years ago having a conversation with an online friend. She was struggling because she was never a good student, not interested in science, math, history but her middle daughter was a smart cookie. At age 7, she wanted to know who all the Presidents and Vice-Presidents of the US were so she could memorize them, and my friend wanted to encourage that sort of thing despite it not being her thing at all. I was that kind of kid too. I remember being in 5th grade and we needed to be able to identify all the states on a map. I already knew them, so the teacher had me also learn all the capitals. It's hard enough knowing that you are "different" than other kids because you have interests beyond video games and cartoons without being reminded of it around every corner. I loved Fridays when that would be "movie day," and that usually meant a True-Life adventure or the other Disney Educational films. Disney was the place where you could go and see stuff like Lincoln or HoP, Adventure thru Inner Space and see that you weren't a freak after all. The world is a cool place of discovery, and Disney made it accessible and more fun than the usual places. Some things, shouldn't be judged on if it is the "most popular thing," but is it popular enough to justify the investment and encourages something we want to encourage - like smart kids feeling confident with their smartness. And even as a kid, I was frustrated by seeing everything dumbed down and need to be made to appeal to, as my eight year old self would have said, "popular kids who would never like this stuff anyway."

 

[Blairnicol]

I don't understand having a dedicated area for a particular IP and then putting that IP elsewhere where it doesn't belong... what is wrong with this company?

This is my question. While I tend to be in the "more the merrier" camp when it comes to The Muppets, I don't understand why they don't add more to the land they are creating, as apposed to another area of the park? If you want Sadler and Waldorf hurling insults at people from a roof (um-YES PLEASE), do that in Muppet Courtyard? I could see Sam the Eagle being shoehorned into Liberty Square and fitting, or a Muppet Christmas Carol overlay but anything else seems to be excess. But I guess Tomorrowland has Space Ranger Spin...so why can't MK get some Muppet love? IDK...seems odd. BUT considering a few months ago we feared the end was nigh for The Muppets in the parks I should shut my trap and be happy with everything I get?? Not look a cracked-out Imagineer gift-horse in the mouth?

 

[PhotoDave219]

This is my question. While I tend to be in the "more the merrier" camp when it comes to The Muppets, I don't understand why they don't add more to the land they are creating, as apposed to another area of the park? If you want Sadler and Waldorf hurling insults at people from a roof (um-YES PLEASE), do that in Muppet Courtyard? I could see Sam the Eagle being shoehorned into Liberty Square and fitting, or a Muppet Christmas Carol overlay but anything else seems to be excess. But I guess Tomorrowland has Space Ranger Spin...so why can't MK get some Muppet love? IDK...seems odd. BUT considering a few months ago we feared the end was nigh for The Muppets in the parks I should shut my trap and be happy with everything I get?? Not look a cracked-out Imagineer gift-horse in the mouth?

Knee jerk reactions from upper level managers who think they have to make their mark.

Its just a guess, of course.

 

[Blairnicol]

Knee jerk reactions from upper level managers who think they have to make their mark.

Its just a guess, of course.

Which I why I sometimes which they would put Joe Rohde in charge of the parks. LOOK at what he's done with DAK. That park is BEAUTIFUL and has some of the best original stuff we've seen in the last howevermany years. I want him to spread the L.O.V.E.

 

[PizzaPlanet]

It would effect the entire character of Liberty Square. What is it about that you don't get?

You can also see Rapunzel's tower from Liberty Square, and certainly doesn't fit with the character.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Which I why I sometimes which they would put Joe Rohde in charge of the parks. LOOK at what he's done with DAK. That park is BEAUTIFUL and has some of the best original stuff we've seen in the last howevermany years. I want him to spread the L.O.V.E.

We could go round and round on this. I like where Joe is.

What needs to happen IMO is for better bosses above Joe and less bureaucracy.

More bureaucracy means more politics and more infighting and less actually getting things done. Think of how much more profits there were to be had if they culled middle management.

 

[rioriz]

This is my question. While I tend to be in the "more the merrier" camp when it comes to The Muppets, I don't understand why they don't add more to the land they are creating, as apposed to another area of the park? If you want Sadler and Waldorf hurling insults at people from a roof (um-YES PLEASE), do that in Muppet Courtyard? I could see Sam the Eagle being shoehorned into Liberty Square and fitting, or a Muppet Christmas Carol overlay but anything else seems to be excess. But I guess Tomorrowland has Space Ranger Spin...so why can't MK get some Muppet love? IDK...seems odd. BUT considering a few months ago we feared the end was nigh for The Muppets in the parks I should shut my trap and be happy with everything I get?? Not look a cracked-out Imagineer gift-horse in the mouth?

Might be because all the land around Muppet Courtyard will be consumed by Star Wars...

 

[Tony the Tigger]

It doesn't belong because it's an idiotic idea.

...says nobody who matters.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

The area is meant to be a reverent celebration of American history. How does this idea add to that in any way, or to put it better, not destroy it entirely?

Face it: it's boring for kids. If the Muppets draw them in, all the better and they might accidentally learn something. It's a little boring to me, too, compared to other things. (Relax, I said "a little," and it's not blasphemy.) Now, if you're putting a Coke Zero in Ben Franklin's hand, that might be an issue. But if a character who has always emphasized all things patriotic and is intentionally based on our national emblem is now used to highlight (by flying overhead) or introduce a lesson in American history, it's hardly worth getting upset over.

Why not wait and see what happens before fully flipping out?

Also face it: it makes sense to intersperse characters in a theme park. Some of you act like this is changing the alphabet. Breathe. It's only fun stuff, not that serious.

Honestly the only change I don't think I'm going to like is if the Guardian Tower becomes permanent - but the reason for that is ToT is solid. It's not boring. It's exceptionally well done. That said, maybe someone who gets paid to be an Imagineer has thought of something I who am not an imagineer haven't, and maybe it will win me over.

More important to worry about pricing going up, food portions going down, upcharges for everything that was once included, etc. IMO.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

The Muppets do not belong in Liberty Square. That shouldn't require an explanation.

It most certainly does. Try.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

While @wdwmagic says there's something to this, I believe there's one thing that will keep it from coming to frutition: Newton's First Law of motion. Objects at Rest tend to stay at rest.

As we all know, TPTB at P&R are loathe to actually do anything or spend money on CapEx (ask @ParentsOf4, he has charts) so Management's natural state is at rest. They're dropping a... well a now unknown amount of money into DHS on SWL & TSL.... and the natural inclination of any sound, career-minded, budget-conscious, mid-level, Disney middle manager is to make their numbers and in this case it would be to clip expenditures. Past history has told us thru so many blue sky proposals, 5th gates, night kingdoms, (and god knows what else over the past 10-15 years) that actually held validity yet only to be sent to sleep with the fishes at the end of the day.

What does this mean here? That the inherent laziness of Disney Management practically ensures that this bad-but-not-the-worst-idea-i've-heard-this-week never comes to fruition.

Now I love the Muppets but the Muppets belong at the Studios. They have their own courtyard. Take idea and cram it in over there. They don't belong any closer to Liberty Square then that.

Or...

They want to justify all kinds of price increases by doing "little things" and calling them "new" attractions while all the serious new attractions take years to build.