The Miscellaneous Thought Thread

[PiratesMansion]

• MagicBand makes so much sense here compared to Disneyland. Like I *get* it here and love it, it's something that simply didn't click for me when I first tried them in DL.

It's really nice to not have to dig for your wallet or phone for tickets/Genie/etc. I would never pay for one, but as long as the free one I got years ago still works, I'll always use it.

Day 0
Landed in MCO yesterday around 3pm and took an Uber to Coronado Springs (where I'm staying for the first part of this trip); by the time I settled into my room, I found I actually had enough time to go to MK to spend the evening there. I got into MK at around 5pm. The resort bus system is pretty efficient, all things considered. Security screening without taking anything out was weird but cool. Wild we don't have them here at Disneyland.

Right?!? Literally everyone but Disneyland is going to these scanners and it's so much more pleasant and efficient. Nothing flagged? Go on through! Even Knott's has them now. I don't know if DL Security has a union that is fighting tooth and nail for their rights to fumble through bags or what, but there has to be a reason that DL's security is so much worse and slower than everywhere else, and I'm running out of others that seem logical. Even if that's too "loose" for some people, get airport scanners. DLP had them in 2015, I'm sure a resort that makes way more money than Paris could manage the expense!

• TRON
  • Preshow is so cool, the ride going down for 30 minutes while in line was less cool. The ride itself is an interesting experience but probably one & done for me. It just wasn't a comfortable ride - the way you straddle the light cycle means your neck/back are strained when you look up to see the Grid. Hated it (but the photo/video you get afterwards was worth it).

It's a gimmick ride IMO. There to get some hype on the Gram and it's all shine, no substance.

• Space Mountain
  • Let me tell you, I was terrified. I knew it was gonna be more like Matterhorn, but I really didn't expect just how rough and chaotic that feeling would be in the dark. Vastly prefer our version.

DL's is my favorite overall, but their Space is just a totally different vibe and I LOVE the ejector airtime in the dark. Also, somehow they manage to have very similar seats to Matterhorn's but theirs are MUCH more comfortable. Wish we could get the same trains over here for MB.

• Haunted Mansion
  • I think overall the additional scenes are fantastic. The staircases are a really cool effect. Shame when they add the Hatbox Ghost to the endless hallway though.

The additional scenes and notes of meloncholy added to the score in the music room really take the WDW/TDL versions of the Mansion over the top for me.

• Happily Ever After
  • Incredible. As the blueprint for Wondrous Journeys, it really shone with the big shells and projections. I'm a fan.

Still the best fireworks show Disney's ever done (though it doesn't have a moment that gives me the chills quite like when Moana/Hercules/Quasimomdo/Belle come together on "Out THERE" as the fireworks burst).

• Flight of Passage
  • I have no words. What a ride. I'm sure this feeling decreases after riding multiple times, but it was genuinely exhilarating for me and I was moved. The straddle here was way more comfy than TRON, and the haptics in the chair are genuinely so cool. Still thinking about the smell of the air. (Could do without all the hokey bits in the preshow though.)
• Navi River Journey
  • It's a wonderful ride after FoP; probably would've been disappointed had I waited longer than 20-30 minutes, but it's also just as moving as FoP for me in terms of conveying Pandora.

Neither Pandora rides are my favorites, but the rides and land work MUCH better in person than most people expect them to. That's why I'm not inherently anti-Avatar at DLR as long as it says out of DL Park and actually uses new space instead of just repurposing areas that are fine.

 

[TP2000]

This is weird... My weather app on my phone just showed over an inch of rain coming this weekend. In San Diego??? In August??? Yup.

Turns out there's a tropical storm named Hilary (with one L) churning its way up from Baja late this weekend. Hilary will fall apart a few hundred miles south of San Diego as the ocean temps off SoCal are colder than usual right now, but Hilary's remnants will still have lots of rain left in them. All of SoCal is currently predicted to get over an inch of rain, and several inches of rain in the mountain foothills of LA and Santa Barbara counties. Extremely rare.

Disneyland has a forecast for 1.3 inches of rain Sunday into Monday morning. But let's let this forecast gel and firm up for another 36 hours before we get the umbrellas out of storage, because weather forecasting is still not great more than 72 hours out. But something to watch, that's for sure. Especially for those of us here who live in hilly terrain subject to landslides, or low-lying terrain subject to flooding.

 

[MoonRakerSCM]

In the words of the great Ollie Williams-

 

[TP2000]

This could be fun to watch the local news stations freak out...

Tropical Storm Hilary tracking toward SoCal and Baja California to bring rain, winds to San Diego

A tropical storm churning off the coast of Mexico is tracking north and could come close to San Diego County, where it will bring widespread showers and gusty winds.

www.nbcsandiego.com

I'm hoping we get a scene like this televised somewhere between San Diego and Santa Monica. I volunteer to be one of the guys strolling by in the background.

 

[TP2000]

Right?!? Literally everyone but Disneyland is going to these scanners and it's so much more pleasant and efficient. Nothing flagged? Go on through! Even Knott's has them now. I don't know if DL Security has a union that is fighting tooth and nail for their rights to fumble through bags or what, but there has to be a reason that DL's security is so much worse and slower than everywhere else, and I'm running out of others that seem logical.

Disneyland's security CM's recently got a raise to a starting wage of $26 per hour. There's no good reason why Disneyland still pretends it is 2004 when it comes to bag screening.

Other than, of course, my firm belief that no TDA executive has ever actually wandered out to the Esplanade on a Tuesday morning to see how their park operates and how their product is experienced by their customers.

Disney security workers getting $8 an hour raise in new contract

The pay hike will boost their minimum wage to $26 an hour from $18.10 hourly.

www.ocregister.com

 

[Disney Analyst]

Send some of that rain to us, pretty please!

 

[TP2000]

Send some of that rain to us, pretty please!

A few long range forecasts have the moisture heading well into Oregon and at least up to Vancouver Island. It might happen.

But we'll need to wait another solid day to 36 hours to see how the forecasts track. Still a bit too early to be confident in any of it.

But as of Monday late afternoon, we've got something we never see. A hurricane/tropical storm cone map that aims right at Disneyland.

 

[Disney Analyst]

Since guest patterns have changed so much recently…

How do we think crowds would be December 27 - December 31st? Anyone go during that period last year?

 

[TP2000]

The boys down at the Marine Room this evening were all talking about Hilary. They are looking forward to surfing in real hurricane fueled waves. That, of course, is very dangerous and I don't condone it. But we all know the kids are going to head out there into the surf this Sunday and Monday to try.

NOAA has updated it's tracking cone late Wednesday night. It now has Hilary still coming in right over central OC and right up Main Street USA at Disneyland, but now a bit later at 7pm on Monday instead.

None of us have seen a hurricane cone that aims right at Disneyland before. Historic, even if it will only be a Tropical Storm by then.

 

[Too Many Hats]

Would there be a downside to making Haunted Mansion virtual-queue-only? I'm wondering why they haven't done it, TBH. We're all on our phones at Disneyland anyway.

It would make the attraction experience infinitely more enjoyable (and true to the Imagineers' intentions). No CMs shouting instructions and herding guests like cattle, no overcrowded stretching room, no packed-like-sardines, backed-up portrait corridor.

And we could finally enjoy the fountain and courtyard in front of the New Orleans Square station. Without the risk of a gigantic Mansion line invading the area, Disney could add back some benches in there and make it a quiet, peaceful space where guests could relax and soak up the ambiance.

I'm curious if anyone would oppose this, and if there are downsides I'm overlooking.

 

[SuddenStorm]

Disneyland's security CM's recently got a raise to a starting wage of $26 per hour. There's no good reason why Disneyland still pretends it is 2004 when it comes to bag screening.

Other than, of course, my firm belief that no TDA executive has ever actually wandered out to the Esplanade on a Tuesday morning to see how their park operates and how their product is experienced by their customers.

Disney security workers getting $8 an hour raise in new contract

The pay hike will boost their minimum wage to $26 an hour from $18.10 hourly.

www.ocregister.com

I haven't seen it mentioned here- but did you see that the food union Local 50 is negotiating another pay raise?

It feels like these negotiations are an annual tradition at this point. I remember foods got a decent bump in late 2019- I know food preps went from $12 to $16 an hour overnight. And now it looks like they'll be at $23.50 starting in September if they accept Disney's new proposal.

With another bump to $25 in September of 2024.

So a 100% increase in labor cost in five years. After Disneyland was shuttered losing money for over a year, and during a decline in attendance. I would hope the union is working to make sure their workers are putting out a quality of work worth that increase... but for some reason I doubt it.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Would there be a downside to making Haunted Mansion virtual-queue-only? I'm wondering why they haven't done it, TBH. We're all on our phones at Disneyland anyway.

It would make the attraction experience infinitely more enjoyable (and true to the Imagineers' intentions). No CMs shouting instructions and herding guests like cattle, no overcrowded stretching room, no packed-like-sardines, backed-up portrait corridor.

And we could finally enjoy the fountain and courtyard in front of the New Orleans Square station. Without the risk of a gigantic Mansion line invading the area, Disney could add back some benches in there and make it a quiet, peaceful space where guests could relax and soak up the ambiance.

I'm curious if anyone would oppose this, and if there are downsides I'm overlooking.

Virtual queues don‘t inherently change operation of the attraction. It might let you mask reduced operational capacity from public view but it still requires the decision to reduce operational capacity.

Then you have the spill over effect of people no longer being in that queue and having to go somewhere else. You’re increasing crowding and in two ways because you shifted people out of the queue and reduced capacity of the ride so your taking people out of it as well.

 

[CaptinEO]

Would there be a downside to making Haunted Mansion virtual-queue-only? I'm wondering why they haven't done it, TBH. We're all on our phones at Disneyland anyway.

It would make the attraction experience infinitely more enjoyable (and true to the Imagineers' intentions). No CMs shouting instructions and herding guests like cattle, no overcrowded stretching room, no packed-like-sardines, backed-up portrait corridor.

And we could finally enjoy the fountain and courtyard in front of the New Orleans Square station. Without the risk of a gigantic Mansion line invading the area, Disney could add back some benches in there and make it a quiet, peaceful space where guests could relax and soak up the ambiance.

I'm curious if anyone would oppose this, and if there are downsides I'm overlooking.

The problem with Disney is they ruined their attraction standby capacity by doing Fastpass/Genie/Lightning.

For people like myself that were too young to remember the pre Fastpass days, post pandemic there was almost a year where both Disneyland and World had no fastpass.

It was glorious and the queues moved at a great pace and made the park experience so much better. It was the pace the lines were designed to move in the first place.

 

[Too Many Hats]

Virtual queues don‘t inherently change operation of the attraction. It might let you mask reduced operational capacity from public view but it still requires the decision to reduce operational capacity.

I see. Might it be worth it, though? Hypothetically I might be able to justify a capacity reduction if it helps improve the attraction experience.

Then you have the spill over effect of people no longer being in that queue and having to go somewhere else. You’re increasing crowding and in two ways because you shifted people out of the queue and reduced capacity of the ride so your taking people out of it as well.

Definitely a concern. And this is the reason why I’ve generally disagreed with the virtual queues trend at theme parks.

At Disneyland, however, and in New Orleans Square especially, it’s already SO crowded. How deleterious would one virtual queue be? Especially since Mansion’s lines are not typically super long; the issue is that there’s minimal space.

It might at least remove all the people standing motionless in a queue spilling out into the walkway. And it’d provide a higher quality attraction experience.

Just thinking out loud. Appreciate the feedback.

 

[Too Many Hats]

The problem with Disney is they ruined their attraction standby capacity by doing Fastpass/Genie/Lightning.

For people like myself that were too young to remember the pre Fastpass days, post pandemic there was almost a year where both Disneyland and World had no fastpass.

It was glorious and the queues moved at a great pace and made the park experience so much better. It was the pace the lines were designed to move in the first place.

100% agree that the parks would be more enjoyable without FP/Genie+/LL.

I didn't manage to attend Disneyland during those early post-pandemic days. Do you recall if Haunted Mansion had crowd control issues? Haha.

I'm just so curious if anyone in park ops or at TDA has a plan for New Orleans Square's crowds. Teaching CMs to berate guests to "make sure every brick is covered with a shoe" is not a long-term solution.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I see. Might it be worth it, though? Hypothetically I might be able to justify a capacity reduction if it helps improve the attraction experience.



Definitely a concern. And this is the reason why I’ve generally disagreed with the virtual queues trend at theme parks.

At Disneyland, however, and in New Orleans Square especially, it’s already SO crowded. How deleterious would one virtual queue be? Especially since Mansion’s lines are not typically super long; the issue is that there’s minimal space.

It might at least remove all the people standing motionless in a queue spilling out into the walkway. And it’d provide a higher quality attraction experience.

Just thinking out loud. Appreciate the feedback.

Personally, I'd be on board with properly loading the Stretching Room. A strong operations team could probably minimize the number of empty Doombuggies sent into the ride because there weren't enough people in the loading area.

The better solution to the queue extending into New Orleans Square would probably be to redesign it to accommodate more people. That is admittedly easier said than done.

 

[TP2000]

Personally, I'd be on board with properly loading the Stretching Room. A strong operations team could probably minimize the number of empty Doombuggies sent into the ride because there weren't enough people in the loading area.

I agree. But surely they aren't sending empty doombuggies into the ride if they are also yelling at us and herding us all like cattle?

The ride was masterfully designed in the 1960's. The two elevators deliver the correct amount of people to the loading area to keep the doombuggies full. The problem today is that it's no longer 1969 and we have a lot more people in wheelchairs that need the ride stopped, backing up the loading area routinely. That's an operations scenario they never planned for in 1969.

But back to your original point, a strong operations team could tackle that problem. If anything, the solution seems to be sending down fewer people in each stretching room today than what the Omnimover system was designed to handle originally. In that case, going to a virtual queue only based on actual, real-world numbers using 2020's crowd demographic knowledge would seem to help the situation.

You'd only offer enough virtual queue slots to load the elevator rooms at 80% (or something) of their 1969 capacity, keep the loading area comfortably well fed to prevent empty doombuggies but not packed like cattle without CM's yelling at us like angry school field trip chaperones, and bring some sanity and graciousness back to that entire attraction experience.

 

[TP2000]

I will also say, the only real solution to Haunted Mansion's problems is a redesign of the Omnimover system.

Or at least, the only solution that doesn't require a strong operations team to retrain and better manage the bellowing and bullying CM's.

They need to create an entirely separate off-line loading area for people in wheelchairs and rental ECV's (who are often less adept and much slower at getting in and out of them than a lifelong user of their own personal wheelchair is). Like almost all modern rides built for the past 15 years, Radiator Racers, Midway Mania, Mickey's Railway, there's an off-line loading area for people with disabilities.

Slide 3 doombuggies at a time off-line into a separate loading area, give the people there all the time in the world to get in or out, and let the Omnimover keep gliding along for 2,000+ people an hour as God and Walt intended it to do.

 

[TP2000]

Hilary blew up overnight and is now a Category 2 hurricane, and is projected to top out at a Category 4 hurricane by the time its sliding along southern Baja.

The ocean water along northern Baja and SoCal is colder than normal for this time of year, so Hilary will die off just as fast as she blew up. But still will likely come ashore in SoCal as a named tropical storm. That would be the first time that happened since 1939, when a similar system came ashore over Long Beach. The news also said there was a similar strong tropical storm that slammed in to Los Angeles back in 1858, but records and measuring were far less accurate then to know exactly how that system moved or arrived.

If you consider it was 81 years between the hurricanes of 1858 and 1939, and it's been 84 years since the Long Beach hurricane of '39, then we're overdue. Obviously, this will be a dying stropical storm by the time it arrives on California soil, but we can all expect a lot of very unusual August rainfall and gusty winds.

This tracking cone update from NOAA is only about an hour old, as of Noon today California time.

 

[chadwpalm]

With a virtual queue, wouldn't it fill up before the end of the day and then you can't ride it? At least now if LL runs out you can still stand in line and get on the ride. Wasn't that the biggest issue with RotR and MMRR having VQs? Them selling out quickly and then you're forced to pay for LL. Also, as has been already said, it puts more people into the walkways.

Personally, I'd be on board with properly loading the Stretching Room. A strong operations team could probably minimize the number of empty Doombuggies sent into the ride because there weren't enough people in the loading area.

The better solution to the queue extending into New Orleans Square would probably be to redesign it to accommodate more people. That is admittedly easier said than done.

Since everyone's complaining about the faux grass out front, they could add a ton more switchbacks there. Plant a couple large trees there for shade.