The Miscellaneous Thought Thread

[Disney Analyst]

The pack mules.

Who would have known all these years later guests would become their own, with strollers full of merchandise as they trek through the parks.

Now that’s a thesis!

 

[PiratesMansion]

I’ll admit Pirates was the first ride that came to my mind before I wrote my post but as I thought through what a thesis attraction means I ultimately had to go with Jungle Cruise. I think the only way you can choose a ride that was built 12 years after the park opened as a thesis attraction is if there was huge rebranding of the park.

Then why not the Matterhorn? 59 undoubtedly had a big effect on changing the park forever, arguably more than Pirates.

I'd also agree with IASW as a DL thesis attraction. Mansion I would count for MK but not DL.

I don't think Jungle Cruise really qualifies by modern standards. It's mostly a classic because it's been there forever, not because most people genuinely regard it as one of the best rides in the park. Especially at Disneyland it's frequently overshadowed by many attractions, including the one right next door that, when working properly (ha), also better fits as a showpiece, as a wow! attraction.

Why does a thesis attraction have to be tied to a park's opening year? I feel like theme parks, much like TV shows, start as one thing but then migrate, even in subtle ways, into being something different over time. So for me Pirates as a thesis attraction makes perfect sense.

 

[BuzzedPotatoHead89]

The term “thesis attraction” has come up a couple times the last few days. It got me thinking, what’s Disneyland’s thesis attraction? It has to be Jungle Cruise right? It was there on opening day, has the greatest scope/ scale and showed the greatest commitment to theme. A case can be made for Frontierland in general although it’s not an attraction. Some may say the DLRR but I would disagree.

I would probably say DLRR. Perhaps Pirates, IASW, the Castle, Matterhorn RoA or the Mansion could be argued. But DLRR pulls the entire park together within the berm connecting each of the disparate lands by a single rail system.

A thesis statement should be at the introduction of a park as a both a visual weenie and a clearly coveted message that offers a compelling explanation for what the spirit of the park is about and why it matters.

In some parks this is more clear - Epcot 1.0 had Spaceship Earth, MGM Studios had the Great Movie Ride, Animal Kingdom had Kilimanjaro safari DCA 1.0 had Soarin’ over CA (and maybe Golden Dreams). It’s basically the one ride in the park that explains to you what the park is in a nutshell.

 

[mickEblu]

Then why not the Matterhorn? 59 undoubtedly had a big effect on changing the park forever, arguably more than Pirates.

I'd also agree with IASW as a DL thesis attraction. Mansion I would count for MK but not DL.

I don't think Jungle Cruise really qualifies by modern standards. It's mostly a classic because it's been there forever, not because most people genuinely regard it as one of the best rides in the park. Especially at Disneyland it's frequently overshadowed by many attractions, including the one right next door that, when working properly (ha), also better fits as a showpiece, as a wow! attraction.

Why does a thesis attraction have to be tied to a park's opening year? I feel like theme parks, much like TV shows, start as one thing but then migrate, even in subtle ways, into being something different over time. So for me Pirates as a thesis attraction makes perfect sense.

The question to ask is if Jungle Cruise didn’t exist would we even have a Pirates? Maybe, maybe not.

 

[mickEblu]

I would probably say DLRR. Perhaps Pirates, IASW, the Castle, Matterhorn RoA or the Mansion could be argued. But DLRR pulls the entire park together within the berm connecting each of the disparate lands by a single rail system.

A thesis statement should be at the introduction of a park as a both a visual weenie and a clearly coveted message that offers a compelling explanation for what the spirit of the park is about and why it matters.

In some parks this is more clear - Epcot 1.0 had Spaceship Earth, MGM Studios had the Great Movie Ride, Animal Kingdom had Kilimanjaro safari DCA 1.0 had Soarin’ over CA (and maybe Golden Dreams). It’s basically the one ride in the park that explains to you what the park is in a nutshell.

That’s a great explanation. That’s why I went with Jungle as they didn’t have a visual weenie that also offers a compelling explanation of what the spirit of the park is about. The castle was an icon with no attraction. The train as much as it symbolizes is a transportation ride and I don’t think makes the cut. Jungle Cruise was the template for the great E ticket experiences that were to come.

 

[PiratesMansion]

The question to ask is if Jungle Cruise didn’t exist would we have a Pirates? Maybe, maybe not.

But let's be honest. Jungle Cruise is mostly in this conversation because it was the most sophisticated ride at the park's opening. Now it's mostly around because people like it for its history (rather than its actual merits) and people would probably raise hell if they ever tried to remove it, not because they still really love it or identify it with Disneyland more than other attractions.

If you were to ask your average person to name their top 10 Disneyland attractions, I bet almost none of them would say Jungle Cruise.
It's an attraction that is iconically Disneyland, but it's not one that people have the same admiration for in the way they do for others like Pirates, IASW, etc.

I'm still not sure why thesis attractions can't be attractions that happened after a park's opening year. Thinking of several other examples:
Cedar Point: Park opened 1870, its thesis attraction is undoubtedly Millennium Force, which opened in 2000.
Magic Mountain: Park opened in 1971, thesis attraction is probably Superman: Escape from Krypton (1996).
Knott's: Farm started in the 20s, start of Ghost Town is harder to pin down but was there by the 50s, thesis attraction is probably Calico Mine Ride (60s)
Kings Island: Park opened in 1972, thesis attraction is the Beat, opened in 1979.

If a thesis attraction is one that encapsulates everything that a park does well and is unique to it, and parks and attractions evolve, it just seems arbitrary that a thesis attraction can only be from the park's opening year. Lots of parks don't fully understand what they are when they open, up to and including Disneyland. So if we look at this from the perspective of what attraction best fits what the park became, or what it is now, I think there are many better choices than Jungle Cruise.

 

[mickEblu]

But let's be honest. Jungle Cruise is mostly in this conversation because it was the most sophisticated ride at the park's opening. Now it's mostly around because people like it for its history (rather than its actual merits) and people would probably raise hell if they ever tried to remove it, not because they still really love it or identify it with Disneyland more than other attractions.

If you were to ask your average person to name their top 10 Disneyland attractions, I bet almost none of them would say Jungle Cruise.
It's an attraction that is iconically Disneyland, but it's not one that people have the same admiration for in the way they do for others like Pirates, IASW, etc.

I'm still not sure why thesis attractions can't be attractions that happened after a park's opening year. Thinking of several other examples:
Cedar Point: Park opened 1870, its thesis attraction is undoubtedly Millennium Force, which opened in 2000.
Magic Mountain: Park opened in 1971, thesis attraction is probably Superman: Escape from Krypton (1996).
Knott's: Farm started in the 20s, start of Ghost Town is harder to pin down but was there by the 50s, thesis attraction is probably Calico Mine Ride (60s)
Kings Island: Park opened in 1972, thesis attraction is the Beat, opened in 1979.

If a thesis attraction is one that encapsulates everything that a park does well and is unique to it, and parks and attractions evolve, it just seems arbitrary that a thesis attraction can only be from the park's opening year. Lots of parks don't fully understand what they are when they open, up to and including Disneyland. So if we look at this from the perspective of what attraction best fits what the park became, or what it is now, I think there are many better choices than Jungle Cruise.

A lot of good points but Disneyland knew what it was on opening day. It just got better at executing. Jungle Cruise was the best attraction on opening day and the template for all the E tickets to come. Considering what thesis means and being that it still exists today, I have to give it the nod over POTC.

 

[CaptinEO]

Jungle Cruise I feel should stay away from the jokes and be serious once again. I like comedy but it's like the skippers use 90% of the same jokes.

 

[PiratesMansion]

A lot of good points but Disneyland knew what it was on opening day. It just got better at executing. Jungle Cruise was the best attraction on opening day and the template for all the E tickets to come. Considering what thesis means and being that it still exists today, I have to give it the nod over POTC.

I just feel like something can't be the thesis attraction if it no longer is the definitive example of what a park is and what is special about it. Jungle Cruise was the template, yes, but it has been repeatedly outclassed over time. I can't imagine anyone other than perhaps a very young child saying that they feel it is the signature essence of Disneyland. I'd argue it even something like PPF has better endured.

If I went to Disneyland and rode Jungle Cruise, I'd enjoy it, but if I went and didn't ride JC, I wouldn't feel like I had missed a vital part of the park. I can't say the same about Pirates, and I feel like most people feel the same way. Hence my feeling that Pirates is a better thesis attraction.

 

[mickEblu]

I just feel like something can't be the thesis attraction if it no longer is the definitive example of what a park is and what is special about it. Jungle Cruise was the template, yes, but it has been repeatedly outclassed over time. I can't imagine anyone other than perhaps a very young child saying that they feel it is the signature essence of Disneyland. I'd argue it even something like PPF has better endured.

If I went to Disneyland and rode Jungle Cruise, I'd enjoy it, but if I went and didn't ride JC, I wouldn't feel like I had missed a vital part of the park. I can't say the same about Pirates, and I feel like most people feel the same way. Hence my feeling that Pirates is a better thesis attraction.

You make a good argument but I disagree. I’ll be honest JC isn’t in my Top 10 at DL but I don’t think it’s too far off from the signature essence of Disneyland. So POTC is indoors and they can obviously do more with that but the scope isn’t too far off, scale is on par and they built a freakin Jungle in the middle of Anaheim! With all of that considered and the fact that JC was the template and still exists today puts it over the top for me.

 

[Too Many Hats]

Miscellaneous grievance: 5 full months of Haunted Mansion Holiday is too much.

 

[BuzzedPotatoHead89]

Miscellaneous grievance: 5 full months of Haunted Mansion Holiday is too much.

I’m waiting for the inevitable “Jack-Sally love story ties in to Valentines Day thus we’re leaving up through end of February” next year.

 

[waltography]

I’m waiting for the inevitable “Jack-Sally love story ties in to Valentines Day thus we’re leaving up through end of February” next year.

"You'll need the luck o' the Irish to get a fiendish treat from Oogie Boogie's game of roulette, so we're thrilled to announce that Haunted Mansion Holiday will be available for a limited time through Saint Patrick's Day!"

 

[Californian Elitist]

Miscellaneous grievance: 5 full months of Haunted Mansion Holiday is too much.

Yes. It’s ridiculous.

 

[No Name]

Jungle Cruise I feel should stay away from the jokes and be serious once again. I like comedy but it's like the skippers use 90% of the same jokes.

I would riot.

Miscellaneous grievance: 5 full months of Haunted Mansion Holiday is too much.

Personally I think they should only do it every few years. I’m not anti-holiday but also not an annual passholder, and I when I used to go once a year in September, I found it kind of annoying that I never got to see the real thing.

I know I’m a minority here, but even for everyone, I think a rotation would be better. One year they do Haunted Mansion Holiday, the next year they do PotC, then Jungle Cruise, etc. That would make each one a bigger event while giving people time to enjoy it.

 

[Too Many Hats]

I enjoy HMH just fine, but it overstays its welcome — especially this year (though I’m sure capacity concerns are the reason it’s remained open). Sometimes less is more; if it’s always a holiday, the holidays become less special!

 

[Californian Elitist]

An entire year of HMH?? Absolutely not.

 

[CaptinEO]

I would riot.

How come? The comedy take on it only happened much later into its life, it isn't the ride Walt opened. I don't like it tbh even though I enjoy stand up comedy it's the same jokes over hard to hear speakers.

People associate jokey jungle cruise skippers and yetis with 50s Disney when it was never a thing back then.

 

[Rich T]

How come? The comedy take on it only happened much later into its life, it isn't the ride Walt opened. I don't like it tbh even though I enjoy stand up comedy it's the same jokes over hard to hear speakers.

People associate jokey jungle cruise skippers and yetis with 50s Disney when it was never a thing back then.

The comedy take actually began being implemented fairly soon after its debut. Walt agreed the Jungle Cruise should be more humorous and he assigned Marc Davis to creating the now-beloved scenes that added fantasy and laughs to the ride.

The version of JC that Walt opened in 1955 was… lacking in many departments. Walt immediately looked for ways to improve it and make it more light hearted and whimsical.

Even real-wildlife Kilamanjaro Safaris in AK has jokes and humor. In fact, Walt Disney pretty much decided quickly that humor was the way to go for all adventures and shows.

Abe Lincoln is the only serious attraction at DL. And people aren’t breaking down the door to see it.

 

[CaptinEO]

Walt agreed the Jungle Cruise should be more humorous and he assigned Marc Davis to creating the now-beloved scenes that added fantasy and laughs to the ride.

The version of JC that Walt opened in 1955 was… lacking in many departments. Walt immediately looked for ways to improve it and make it more light hearted and whimsical.

Even real-wildlife Kilamanjaro Safaris in AK has jokes and humor. In fact, Walt Disney pretty much decided quickly that humor was the way to go.

Abe Lincoln is the only serious attraction at DL. And people aren’t breaking down the door to see it.

Walt added humorous scenes to the ride but did not make it into standup routines.

I have been on AK Safari probably a dozen times and don't recall any jokes besides maybe when they drop you off at the end. It's always animal facts. Maybe its just me?