The "Legoland" Effect

[lebeau]

Exactly my thoughts.

Someone may take one day out of their Disney vacation to hit up Legoland, but it just means they will be skipping Sea World this time around because of it. Most people who vacation to Southern California are going to check out everything from Los Angeles to San Diego with a rental car, and they'll just happen to be driving right past Legoland on their route. The Legoland in Florida isn't going to be "on the way" to anything. I imagine a lot of families will want to go check it out once "just to see" and then just go back to strictly Disney in subsequent years. I'm thinking most of it's revenue is going to need to come from locals.

Not so.

If you start shaving days off of Disney, suddenly the price per day at Disney starts to look very expensive. Eventually, you start to ask yourself, do we really need to go to WDW again? Maybe we should just sample everyone else.

I have done precisely that and I can tell you it can be just as much fun as Disney for a lot less cash.

Legoland makes a Disney-free central FL vacation that much more appealing.

 

[jt04]

I think you should first visit Legoland California before declaring it's going to be a "tipping point". I've been to Legoland California several times over the past decade, most recently in summer '08. See my previous post on how that park is poorly operated, although it does have its positives....

Legoland California is a custom built park on a gorgeous plot of lushly landscaped land in the hills just above the Carlsbad beaches in northern San Diego County.

It's a 50 or 60 minute (depending how legally you drive) easy freeway shot straight down Interstate 5 from Disneyland. It's in a master-planned development with easy access to 12 lanes of modern freeway. It's been there for 10 years, and has had steady investment development and plenty of additions since opening. It's a fully fleshed out theme park with 30+ attractions big and small, with a new SeaLife Aquarium that just opened attached to the main park. An attached water park is under construction there now, not yet reflected on the park map.

http://www.legoland.com/NR/rdonlyres/5A571D27-106A-4305-B597-9A9492FB633B/0/park_map_newest.gif

There are lots of new mid-range and upscale hotels and time share condos directly adjacent or very close to the park, with plenty of stylish restaurants and an upscale mall at the bottom of the hill along the beach. Heck, there's even an In N' Out Burger nearby too.

And even with all that going for it, it hasn't done a thing to the Disneyland Resort in the last decade. It's very rarely mentioned in theme park circles in SoCal or on Disneyland boards. It's pretty much just a regional theme park for San Diego County and South Orange County, plus a few tourists who have a child heavy into a Lego phase take a day out of their week in SoCal to visit.

I would imagine that Legoland Florida, only after a full decade of development and additions, would slot into that same position. When Legoland Florida is more established and expanded a few years after it opens, I would think it might pick off some folks with a rental car who would otherwise go to Sea World or Islands of Adventure for one day of their Orlando visit.

Considering all that, and the performance of the California park, I can't imagine Legoland Florida is going to impact Walt Disney World in any meaningful or noticeable way.

.

Do you know what percentage of WDW visitors are locals vs non-locals? Because that is where Legoland will impact Disney at first.

 

[lebeau]

It's cheaper to rent a car and stay at the dicount hotels that are just about everywhere now. If you use priceline or the like, a Florida vacation can be had relatively cheaply.

I can rent a car and stay in a more luxurious hotel than Disney's deluxe offerings and still pay less than staying at Disney and eating all my meals on property.

And the drive is usually less time than it takes to wait for Disney busses.

Anyone who hasn't stayed off site really out to try it.

 

[NewfieFan]

First of all I don't think it's fair to compare the effect (or lack there of) that Legoland Cali. has had on DL. We keep arguing that the parks cater to different visitors/tourists and I guess this argument can be used in this case as well. If WDW is the spot for "once in a lifetimers" then we need to think how this will impact their vacationing choices! IF Legoland is important enough for them to see they will take a day from their Disney vacation to go visit it!!!

I don't know what the impact or the extent of the impact will be... but Legoland is going to change things in FL. Even if it only fills in the missing gap on the Flex Pass!

I, myself, have never left Disney property! I don't have any interest in Uni or IOA at the moment (maybe when the kids get older but not now). I would like to take the kids to SeaWorld but it hasn't been enough of a draw yet to get me off property! I am however very interested in Legoland... my son would be thrilled to go! I can see us taking a day on a future vacation to visit the park. Will Disney lose all our money... no! But they will lose us for a day... and Disney likes to keep people on property for their WHOLE stay!!!

Another personal story... (now I'm just repeating what they said)
My brother-in-law and his family have been to FL twice now! Once in '07 and in '09. They're going again in June. I just started asking them questions about their plans and of course I asked about Disney. "No, we're not staying on property this time!" (In the past they've always stayed on property for a few nights and then spent the rest of their time in a vacation home.) "And, we're not going to Disney!" "We're all Disneyed out!" "I think we're going to try the Flex Pass this time!" (They've been to Universal before on both trips!).

So, this family has been to Disney twice and now they're done! The Flex Pass is already a bit more attractive to them. And when I told them about Legoland... their 10 year old went nuts and wanted to know if it was going to be open in June!

 

[lebeau]

I think the thing people are missing here isn't if Legoland will hurt Disney. It will not. It is the addition of Legoland to a UNI, Seaworld, deal that will hurt.

WDW makes its money off tourists, especially foreign tourists. That's why they don't feel the need to do much in upgrading the park and don't really care about catering to locals like Disneyland does. They have the number #1 tourist destination in the world. The problem is Disney has been branching out in these countries creating Disneylands in these toutrists own backyards that are far, far supperior than WDW. Tokyo Disney/DisneySea is actually closing the gap attendance wise between itself and WDW. WDW isn't the once in a lifetime vacation it used to be.

A ticket of several theme parks on one pass and uni resorts will not only take days away spent at WDW from tourists vacations, but guests will start making vacations that don't involve WDW at all.

Is it going to put WDW out of business? No. That's not what I'm saying. But it will affect Disney and they will feel it. Universal has been looking to do this partnering up for a very long, long time. Don't think shuttle transportation hasn't already been figured out.

Quoted for extreme truthiness.

Great post.

 

[MousDad]

Magic Your Way. It's all about the Magic Your Way.

Disney can be impacted 1 of 2 ways by a unified effort between the combined forces of the Tampa/Orlando, non-Disney forces:

1. A reduction of locals. This impact is not catastrophic by any means, but I agree with jt that this is a definite to happen for an extended period of time, mainly after Potter opens, but Legoland will contribute to this. This will be more an annoyance to the Mouse (perhaps significantly), but on-property benchmarks wouldn't be impacted.

2. What would be potentially catastrophic would be an encroachment on Magic Your Way. Once vacationers have to choose between multi-day commitments, then that is where significant loss could occur. What Disney does not want to become (if even to a small minority of its base) is the second choice, as in "let's fit in a day at Disney if we can." (Kind of like we Disney folks try to fit it a day at Uni now.)

Everything, and I mean everything hinges on Magic Your Way. When those go, resorts, dining and per person spending in park go with it, because all of those things now are tied to the Magic Your Way ticket. Even resort stays now, with all the discounting and freebies ($750 gift card) are tied to the MYW.

It's all about the MYW. You want to kill the Mouse, kill the MYW.

 

[Figment632]

Will this effect WDW yes, hugely probably not? I see it more like an annoying mosquito bite that doesn’t go away for WDW.

 

[BaTWING_2000]

Step 1...

How about WDW makes you feel welcome into their parks for starters instead of the "that'll be $29.95, NEXT!!!" attitude. And for all that is holy, kep that Disney Channel crap out of the parks. Airosmith being replaced by Jonas Brothers??? Realy??? Might as well just level the place for me because the last thing I'm over-exposing my family to is the "Honey, you can be a pirate, princess, or teenage rockstar sensation.., yep you'll be just like Miley Cirus" Please. It is alright in moderation but keep the variety going. Get some thrill rides in the parks. So you want the answer to Disney staying in the Ball game???? : THRILL RIDES!!! THRILL RIDES!!! THRILL RIDES!!! THRILL RIDES!!! THRILL RIDES!!! THRILL RIDES!!! THRILL RIDES!!! THRILL RIDES!!! THRILL RIDES!!! THRILL RIDES!!! THRILL RIDES!!! THRILL RIDES!!! THRILL RIDES!!! THRILL RIDES!!! THRILL RIDES!!! THRILL RIDES!!! THRILL RIDES!!! THRILL RIDES!!!... you have NO idea how much kids yearn for a cool thrill. Boys, girls... 3, 14. Doesn't matter... get some action going, and lots of it!!!

 

[lebeau]

How about WDW makes you feel welcome into their parks for starters instead of the "that'll be $29.95, NEXT!!!" attitude. And for all that is holy, kep that Disney Channel crap out of the parks. Airosmith being replaced by Jonas Brothers??? Realy??? Might as well just level the place for me because the last thing I'm over-exposing my family to is the "Honey, you can be a pirate, princess, or teenage rockstar sensation.., yep you'll be just like Miley Cirus" Please. It is alright in moderation but keep the variety going. Get some thrill rides in the parks. So you want the answer to Disney staying in the Ball game???? : THRILL RIDES!!! THRILL RIDES!!! THRILL RIDES!!! THRILL RIDES!!! THRILL RIDES!!! THRILL RIDES!!! THRILL RIDES!!! THRILL RIDES!!! THRILL RIDES!!! THRILL RIDES!!! THRILL RIDES!!! THRILL RIDES!!! THRILL RIDES!!! THRILL RIDES!!! THRILL RIDES!!! THRILL RIDES!!! THRILL RIDES!!! THRILL RIDES!!!... you have NO idea how much kids yearn for a cool thrill. Boys, girls... 3, 14. Doesn't matter... get some action going, and lots of it!!!

That was a brilliant parody of a clueless Disney fan!

:ROFLOL:

 

[Mickey_777]

First of all, Legoland HAS officially been announced.

Second of all, it is rumored that transportation may be added to Flex Pass in the near future.

Exactly...I have no doubt some type of shuttle service will be provided for those wanting to travel between the Uni/Busch/Legoland parks and Orlando. There will be competition but overall Disney will continue to reign supreme. I'm as hopeful as anyone, however, that even more "good" announcements come as a result of this.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Yes the road is going to be awash with buses going to Busch and Legoland.maybe a good time to buy shares in bus manufacturers given the fleet required to service this dream

 

[puntagordabob]

Well I have to agree that Disney is not going to go out of business over Legoland...

BUT I do also agree though that Disney is being surrounded by a decent coalition of competing parks and resorts....and they had better start to work to defeat or at the very least keep the wolves out of the gates.

Be careful though..as impossible as it is to fathom Walt Disney World ceasing to exist....consider this quote as a warning from the past on how Today's "reality" can be tomorrow's "laugh line".....

“The horse is here to stay but the automobile is only a novelty—a fad.”
The president of the Michigan Savings Bank advising Henry Ford’s lawyer not to invest in the Ford Motor Co., 1903

 

[BaTWING_2000]

That was a brilliant parody of a clueless Disney fan!

:ROFLOL:

Dont call me a Disney fan... thats offensive. I don't think it is clueless either. I just refuse to see it all thru the pixie dust, fairy tale goggles. I am NOT happy with the athmosphere and attitudes I receive every time I go there and if you think thats 'a clueless Disney Fan Statement', you need to get your mind out of the "Everything Disney is awesome because I'm a Disney Fan true and true" bubble. I think you need to be able to look beyond that and be able to say a small change in direction might be good... expecially since we saw what Disney was in the past. I write everything from what I compare between all the parks here and not just Disney.

 

[lebeau]

Dont call me a Disney fan... thats offensive. I don't think it is clueless either. I just refuse to see it all thru the pixie dust, fairy tale goggles. I am NOT happy with the athmosphere and attitudes I receive every time I go there and if you think thats 'a clueless Disney Fan Statement', you need to get your mind out of the "Everything Disney is awesome because I'm a Disney Fan true and true" bubble. I think you need to be able to look beyond that and be able to say a small change in direction might be good... expecially since we saw what Disney was in the past. I write everything from what I compare between all the parks here and not just Disney.

I'm critical of Disney too, but thrill rides are not the answer. Other parks already dominate in thrill rides. Yes, WDW needs thrill rides. But they should be part of an overall strategy that includes dark rides and other minor attractions.

Right now, I think the WDW is focusing a little too much on thrill rides. DHS in particular really needs some dark rides. AKL would benefit from some dark rides as well. With Test Track, Soarin and Mission Space, Epcot is thrill rided out.

 

[Monsterfan99]

Legoland CA keeps getting brought up as a non-factor in CA. One has to remember the park had no US history when it opened. As it is getting more establish, that park continues to have record years financially and attendance wise. They are continuing to add more things to make the park a multi-day park experience with the new Hotel and water park on the way.

Legoland FL is learning from this. The LA Times article I saw had them adding a wax museum, aquarium and London Eye style giant wheel. Add to this the hotels also mentioned in the article and this could be a game changer. Put that on a flex ticket and you have a home run.

On Cypress Gardens not being successful before, it was due to how it was ran. A water ski-show and local residents dressed as southern bells was out of style even in the early 1990's. I will always remember going there in 1991 for Spring Break on a sunny Saturday and no one was there. The "Adventure Park" idea was bad at best and was doomed to fail from the start. This at least is a shot at working.

One thing I have no seen mentioned is how it will effect on-site families. I can see families with 2 adults and with a boy and a girl having an issue here. What I do see happening is, once the new Fantasyland is opened, mom and daughter go do the character meet and greets while dad and son go to Legoland. While Disney will not loose out on a day hotel or ticket, they loose out on food and merchandise money for the day.

 

[NewfieFan]

Legoland CA keeps getting brought up as a non-factor in CA. One has to remember the park had no US history when it opened. As it is getting more establish, that park continues to have record years financially and attendance wise. They are continuing to add more things to make the park a multi-day park experience with the new Hotel and water park on the way.

Legoland FL is learning from this. The LA Times article I saw had them adding a wax museum, aquarium and London Eye style giant wheel. Add to this the hotels also mentioned in the article and this could be a game changer. Put that on a flex ticket and you have a home run.

On Cypress Gardens not being successful before, it was due to how it was ran. A water ski-show and local residents dressed as southern bells was out of style even in the early 1990's. I will always remember going there in 1991 for Spring Break on a sunny Saturday and no one was there. The "Adventure Park" idea was bad at best and was doomed to fail from the start. This at least is a shot at working.

One thing I have no seen mentioned is how it will effect on-site families. I can see families with 2 adults and with a boy and a girl having an issue here. What I do see happening is, once the new Fantasyland is opened, mom and daughter go do the character meet and greets while dad and son go to Legoland. While Disney will not loose out on a day hotel or ticket, they loose out on food and merchandise money for the day.

Exactly! And Disney doesn't want to lose you for a day... that's where they make their money is on merchandise and food! MYW packages, transportation to and from the parks, DME, dining plan, etc. have made it very convienient to stay onsite. And they convinced me to do so... I'm on my fourth trip with my own little family and we haven't left property yet. But that's about to change... I'm becoming more and more interested to see what else is out there. Legoland will certainly steal us away for a day!

 

[BaTWING_2000]

I'm critical of Disney too, but thrill rides are not the answer. Other parks already dominate in thrill rides. Yes, WDW needs thrill rides. But they should be part of an overall strategy that includes dark rides and other minor attractions.

Right now, I think the WDW is focusing a little too much on thrill rides. DHS in particular really needs some dark rides. AKL would benefit from some dark rides as well. With Test Track, Soarin and Mission Space, Epcot is thrill rided out.

Yeah thats true. I'd like to see more dark rides too but make em a bit more daring to keep up with everything. Honestly my biggest thing above all the rides realy still is not realy feeling 'welcome'. I seriously get the impression that everybody is working there against there will. (well of course never say everbody but stil) When they change that, Disney'll have my vote again...

One example that stands out to me right now is yesterday at another theme park, 3 different shops making my nieces (3 and 5) realy feel good about the books and stuffed animals they were getting. Last time I've seen that type if interaction in a Disney Store was ages ago. You see what I'm saying. And the reason that es me off so much is because if hurts me inside... I used to love Disney, I want that feeling back I had in the past and I'm not getting it. It basically comes down to a nostalgic void right now.

 

[lebeau]

Exactly! And Disney doesn't want to lose you for a day... that's where they make their money is on merchandise and food! MYW packages, transportation to and from the parks, DME, dining plan, etc. have made it very convienient to stay onsite. And they convinced me to do so... I'm on my fourth trip with my own little family and we haven't left property yet. But that's about to change... I'm becoming more and more interested to see what else is out there. Legoland will certainly steal us away for a day!

I was in that place a few years ago. Then we ventured out to the Sea World and Universal parks. That really changed my mind about vacationing in Orlando.

The way Disney prices things, it kind of forces you into an al-or-nothing mentality. I now plan to take Disney-only trips. But they will be fewer and farther between. Interspersed with the MYW packages will be trips in which I sample all of the growing offerings provided by Disney's competition.

Individually, none of them are enough to draw me from WDW. But combined, they are bigger and more varied. A lot of their older attractions are still new to me and my family. And they are adding new attractions more rapidly that Disney is these days.

Right now, Disney seems content to let them build up around them.

 

[lebeau]

Yeah thats true. I'd like to see more dark rides too but make em a bit more daring to keep up with everything. Honestly my biggest thing above all the rides realy still is not realy feeling 'welcome'. I seriously get the impression that everybody is working there against there will. (well of course never say everbody but stil) When they change that, Disney'll have my vote again...

One example that stands out to me right now is yesterday at another theme park, 3 different shops making my nieces (3 and 5) realy feel good about the books and stuffed animals they were getting. Last time I've seen that type if interaction in a Disney Store was ages ago. You see what I'm saying. And the reason that es me off so much is because if hurts me inside... I used to love Disney, I want that feeling back I had in the past and I'm not getting it. It basically comes down to a nostalgic void right now.

I get where your coming from with this. And Disney could stand to reach out a little beyond the princesses, pirates and fairies. I don't know that we need Alien Encounter-style scares. Universal's Jaws ride would be out of place at WDW in my opinion. But they could add a little more grit with the pixie dust.

It sounds like I've had better experiences with CMs than you have. For the most part, the CM's I've encountered have been adequate. There have been a few outliers in both directions. But for every CM who seemed unhappy to be there, I've experienced three who exceeded my expectations.

 

[Chezman1399]

Harry Potter will not hurt Disney attendence or people staying on Disney property, it is a small land in a small park that has poor attendance and is about to go through another ownership change, people cannot build entire vacations around it. What it will do is bring some people to Disney who wouldn't have come to the Central Florida area before, a majority of which will wander over to Disney.

Potter's area doesn't have a lot to it according to the unveiled plans for what's opening. It has 2 rethemed rides and 1 new ride. For the most part it's a walking tour of Hogwarts castle. While I understand the appeal, I don't see how one small area can take a big number of gusts away from Disney. Some of the best rides in Orlando are Hulk and Spider-Man and they do little if anything that effect the amount of people that go to Disney.

LegoLand could, but there are already 4 other legolands worldwide and as far as I understand these are not resorts, just parks. They still need someplace to stay, and who's to say they won't work with Disney since they already have some presence on Disney property.

Maybe I'm wrong in all of this, but the only thing Potter and LL are going to do is bring more people to the Orlando area and to Disney. Overall it's great for Dieny. Why? Universal's location puts restrictions on certain things they can and can't do, they cater to certain niche markets that Disney doesn't cater to(i.e. thrill rides), everytime someone goes to Universal now Disney makes money, Tickets are cheap, but they have no cheap hotel option, Express pass can be as much as $53, Food is more expensive and lower quality on average. Legoland as well will fill a niche market and it's not a full resort. None of this will effect Disney by anything more than possibly a short term spike. Most people will make trip plans to go to Potter, but go to Disney because they had never gone before.