The Gaming Industry: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

Mike S

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
People will start to come to their senses and realize that 80% of what they have been told and repeating is absolutely bullcrap. Some of it so outrageously so that they lose any and all credibility.

There are definite areas for improvement in terms of rewards with some aspects, and EA has pledged to address them, but after a few days playing you really realize just how asinine the claims of "pay to win" are, how there is no way to buy your way out of leveling, and how time-limited any advantage is. Not to mention how ludicrous the "gambling" claim is.

It's really funny, because people are even admitting at this point that this is about the overall game industry they are mad at, and the problem is they picked the wrong game to have this fight over. But Star Wars = sexy, so they did.
The reason people are so outraged is because it’s Star Wars. It’s something people care a lot about. Someone made a good comparison to another recent EA game, Need For Speed Payback, and how that game has nowhere near the same number of complaints because people just don’t care at all. The game will still likely be one of the best selling of the year but like you I’m curious to see how everything plays out from tomorrow onward. This is pretty much the biggest scandal in the industry since the Xbox One reveal and its showcase at E3 2013 and that one never fully recovered.

I wish the Star Wars fan base was like the Metroid fan base. The last game they tried to throw at us after so long of waiting really made people mad and we voted with our wallets. The game sold so poorly and got so much flak the devs who were part of it leave it off their resumes. You can’t find any mention of it on their website either.
http://www.nextlevelgames.com/luigis_mansion.php

Now look where we are. Metroid: Samus Returns announced and released this year on 3DS with Nintendo confirming its development started 2 years ago, coincidentally the same time that the last game was announced and trashed by fans. They also confirmed Prime 4 for Switch.
 

The_Jobu

Well-Known Member
The reason people are so outraged is because it’s Star Wars. It’s something people care a lot about. Someone made a good comparison to another recent EA game, Need For Speed Payback, and how that game has nowhere near the same number of complaints because people just don’t care at all. The game will still likely be one of the best selling of the year but like you I’m curious to see how everything plays out from tomorrow onward. This is pretty much the biggest scandal in the industry since the Xbox One reveal and its showcase at E3 2013 and that one never fully recovered.

I wish the Star Wars fan base was like the Metroid fan base. The last game they tried to throw at us after so long of waiting really made people mad and we voted with our wallets. The game sold so poorly and got so much flak the devs who were part of it leave it off their resumes. You can’t find any mention of it on their website either.
http://www.nextlevelgames.com/luigis_mansion.php

Now look where we are. Metroid: Samus Returns announced and released this year on 3DS with Nintendo confirming its development started 2 years ago, coincidentally the same time that the last game was announced and trashed by fans. They also confirmed Prime 4 for Switch.

When it's something people care about, they either turn a blind eye to the various problems, or they unleash rage. In a way it's good, they're making so much noise that people like me that dont care about the franchise have noticed and EA is making changes.

I was part of a similar pushback with the Mass Effect franchise. ME3 got varying levels of improvement, but we all saw how the fans reacted, most were outraged at the state of Andromeda, and the rest were aggressively trying to promote it as the best in the series.

This was a franchise so big that they had their own day, N7 Day, where the devs would put out new stuff online, have multiplayer tournaments, people would get together, etc. It's degraded to the point where this year the extent of N7 day was a blurb on the webpage.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
When it's something people care about, they either turn a blind eye to the various problems, or they unleash rage. In a way it's good, they're making so much noise that people like me that dont care about the franchise have noticed and EA is making changes.

I was part of a similar pushback with the Mass Effect franchise. ME3 got varying levels of improvement, but we all saw how the fans reacted, most were outraged at the state of Andromeda, and the rest were aggressively trying to promote it as the best in the series.

This was a franchise so big that they had their own day, N7 Day, where the devs would put out new stuff online, have multiplayer tournaments, people would get together, etc. It's degraded to the point where this year the extent of N7 day was a blurb on the webpage.
If I’m not mistaken ME:A also sold very poorly due to the online backlash. Now, I’m not saying Star Wars could sell that bad, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it turns out just a tad lower than EA was expecting it to. The outrage is huge.
 

The_Jobu

Well-Known Member
If I’m not mistaken ME:A also sold very poorly due to the online backlash. Now, I’m not saying Star Wars could sell that bad, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it turns out just a tad lower than EA was expecting it to. The outrage is huge.

It sold so poorly EA took their ball and went home saying that's it for the franchise.

Star Wars has a much bigger fanbase that simply wont care. The prequels were laughable at times but still wildly successful.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
It sold so poorly EA took their ball and went home saying that's it for the franchise.

Star Wars has a much bigger fanbase that simply wont care. The prequels were laughable at times but still wildly successful.
Yeah. In this specific case Star Wars is too big for its own good.

But hey, it’s not all bad. I hear you can play the PC version of the original Battlefront 2 online again. Maybe people should go to that.
 

DisneyRoy

Well-Known Member
People will start to come to their senses and realize that 80% of what they have been told and repeating is absolutely bullcrap. Some of it so outrageously so that they lose any and all credibility.

There are definite areas for improvement in terms of rewards with some aspects, and EA has pledged to address them, but after a few days playing you really realize just how asinine the claims of "pay to win" are, how there is no way to buy your way out of leveling, and how time-limited any advantage is. Not to mention how ludicrous the "gambling" claim is.

It's really funny, because people are even admitting at this point that this is about the overall game industry they are mad at, and the problem is they picked the wrong game to have this fight over. But Star Wars = sexy, so they did.

I agree with you mostly. However, you can buy your way out of leveling. It's just that the amount of buying required is ludicrous. But someone will do it because they can. But what does it really get you? Like you said...not much. I have played against others with multiple star cards and I still kill them like the rest. The advantages aren't that great like everyone thinks.
 

DisneyRoy

Well-Known Member
Yeah. In this specific case Star Wars is too big for its own good.

But hey, it’s not all bad. I hear you can play the PC version of the original Battlefront 2 online again. Maybe people should go to that.

There are many hundreds of posts (and memes to boot) stating this fact. And I think if you go to those servers, you will find them quite full right now.
 

The_Jobu

Well-Known Member
Way to go guys!!

giphy.gif
 

Jimmy Thick

Well-Known Member

The rumor going around is Disney stepped in, "Said don't screw up our movie coming out expected to make billions and fix this...NOW".

Don't know if that's true but I would not be shocked. The backlash was disgusting. I wonder just what kind of rights Disney has to revoke EA's license of Star Wars if stuff like that happens. Harming a brand could be cause to cease any contract.

BF2 is now getting purchased by me tomorrow.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
The rumor going around is Disney stepped in, "Said don't screw up our movie coming out expected to make billions and fix this...NOW".

Don't know if that's true but I would not be shocked. The backlash was disgusting. I wonder just what kind of rights Disney has to revoke EA's license of Star Wars if stuff like that happens. Harming a brand could be cause to cease any contract.

BF2 is now getting purchased by me tomorrow.
I was going to say it could be a similar situation to what apparently happened to the Xbox One with too many pre-order cancellations than EA would’ve liked but what you said is just as believable.
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member

What it means is that in the short-term:

1) The whales who obviously have already been playing for several days. as they would have bought the Deluxe Edition, have already gotten what advantages that could be had, likely already have a vault of crystals in their pockets that they can still spend, and/or stocked up this afternoon since EA let the "influencers" know hours before it was shut down, who then tweeted a bunch of "HOLY #*&@" stuff, and everyone had pretty much figured what was going on before it did. The people that were going to spend $100's or more already have.

2) While they seem to have halted physical card sales online and probably have the power to pull them off of shelves now at physical retailers, there were already plenty in the wild (some people started receiving them last week) which means they have just created a scalpers market for physical crystal cards. I don't even wanna look at eBay to see...too depressing, because now the cash is just going to scalpers, instead of EA who actually is the one who would be adding future content to the game (see "long term" below).

3) The average folks who would have just spent $5 or $10 bucks to make their grind a little easier for the start of the game so they didn't start with nothing are now SOL.

4) Because of the massive publicity and awareness this has gotten, and now the articles/sources will all update by the morning (actual release day) to say "Microtransactions gone!" it's pretty likely that even more casual people who weren't even really aware of the game yet will be buying this weekend, especially to support the "hero" EA for doing "the right thing". Not to mention all the people (some reading this thread, I am sure) who are rushing to get their preorders back in (if they really cancelled to begin with) tonight.

So net in the short term - EA looks like responsive heroes to the public (even if the "game community" still isn't thrilled with them), the "Whales" already have spent their money, and those that haven't are now going to give their money to scalpers instead of the company that makes the game, and the launch is likely going to be even more successful than it would have been to begin with.


What it means is that in the long-term:

They already said they will be returning, after "changes", and depending on those changes, either:

A) It's just going to be reworked and the level of "advantages" that were already there are just going to pop up in a different (or worse) form, but it will be too late for anyone to really care, or

B) They come back, and it's all about cosmetics now - which won't net them continuing money, and after the already announced aggressive slate of Last Jedi content is released, we will not see anywhere near the previously planned future content that was to be bi-weekly over the next few years and financed by the whales, and they end up just doing Battlefront 3 and we start all over again.


No matter what happens, EA doesn't lose. The ones that really lose are the players who just were going to spend their $60 and get a crap load of future content included, or they have just delayed whatever "P2W" fears they had for a couple of months. And the casual players who would have just spent a few bucks here and there just to save some time are just screwed.

Personally, I feel like people should have just left well enough alone, and we all are going to lose out now, one way, or another.

Oh, and it still costs $300-400 to unlock a new toon in Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes, so if anyone thinks Disney had any problem with the microtransaction schemes other than the publicity this time, they would be mistaken.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
What it means is that in the short-term:

1) The whales who obviously have already been playing for several days. as they would have bought the Deluxe Edition, have already gotten what advantages that could be had, likely already have a vault of crystals in their pockets that they can still spend, and/or stocked up this afternoon since EA let the "influencers" know hours before it was shut down, who then tweeted a bunch of "HOLY #*&@" stuff, and everyone had pretty much figured what was going on before it did. The people that were going to spend $100's or more already have.

2) While they seem to have halted physical card sales online and probably have the power to pull them off of shelves now at physical retailers, there were already plenty in the wild (some people started receiving them last week) which means they have just created a scalpers market for physical crystal cards. I don't even wanna look at eBay to see...too depressing, because now the cash is just going to scalpers, instead of EA who actually is the one who would be adding future content to the game (see "long term" below).

3) The average folks who would have just spent $5 or $10 bucks to make their grind a little easier for the start of the game so they didn't start with nothing are now SOL.

4) Because of the massive publicity and awareness this has gotten, and now the articles/sources will all update by the morning (actual release day) to say "Microtransactions gone!" it's pretty likely that even more casual people who weren't even really aware of the game yet will be buying this weekend, especially to support the "hero" EA for doing "the right thing". Not to mention all the people (some reading this thread, I am sure) who are rushing to get their preorders back in (if they really cancelled to begin with) tonight.

So net in the short term - EA looks like responsive heroes to the public (even if the "game community" still isn't thrilled with them), the "Whales" already have spent their money, and those that haven't are now going to give their money to scalpers instead of the company that makes the game, and the launch is likely going to be even more successful than it would have been to begin with.


What it means is that in the long-term:

They already said they will be returning, after "changes", and depending on those changes, either:

A) It's just going to be reworked and the level of "advantages" that were already there are just going to pop up in a different (or worse) form, but it will be too late for anyone to really care, or

B) They come back, and it's all about cosmetics now - which won't net them continuing money, and after the already announced aggressive slate of Last Jedi content is released, we will not see anywhere near the previously planned future content that was to be bi-weekly over the next few years and financed by the whales, and they end up just doing Battlefront 3 and we start all over again.


No matter what happens, EA doesn't lose. The ones that really lose are the players who just were going to spend their $60 and get a crap load of future content included, or they have just delayed whatever "P2W" fears they had for a couple of months. And the casual players who would have just spent a few bucks here and there just to save some time are just screwed.

Personally, I feel like people should have just left well enough alone, and we all are going to lose out now, one way, or another.

Oh, and it still costs $300-400 to unlock a new toon in Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes, so if anyone thinks Disney had any problem with the microtransaction schemes other than the publicity this time, they would be mistaken.
About Galaxy of Heroes, gamers don’t really care about mobile games since they’ve been like this for a long time now and we know to avoid it like the plague. Also, they’re free and not $60 up front + microtransactions. $300 is outrageous though.

About the rest of what you said I think it will come back in a different form. Cosmetics wouldn’t be as bad as P2W and you know people would still go crazy for those. We have Overwatch as proof and a whole universe to pull costumes from.

You do bring up a good point of people rushing to get the game because EA are the “good guys” now. They’re probably going to smash through initial projections now. If anyone is seriously considering buying scalped cards now there’s something wrong with them, seriously.

I don’t think they’re going to cut on the updates to the game. They know that’s the one thing everyone was going nuts for. Having a small group of “whales” pay for the “free” updates kind of rubs me the wrong way. And finally no, we shouldn’t have “left well enough alone.” If people don’t like something they have the free right to speak up about it. You’ve said it yourself multiple times that this will be one of the best selling games of the year. I don’t disagree with that which is why I ask: if it’s one of the best selling games, doesn’t that mean it should have no problem turning a nice profit on unit sales alone? I mean, it’s Star Wars. If any games should have this type of system in them it’s the games that aren’t a guaranteed success. It would still be bad but at least some kind of real case could be made for it. Instead we have the opposite.

What EA does with this is still a wait and see. For now, we know we have the power to enact change which is a great accomplishment.
 
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AEfx

Well-Known Member
And finally no, we shouldn’t have “left well enough alone.” If people don’t like something they have the free right to speak up about it.

Yes, and you will also have the consequences from it, one way or another. In this case, that's why I said "personally I think" - because what we had versus what we likely just lost I would have preferred it the other way.

You’ve said it yourself multiple times that this will be one of the best selling games of the year. I don’t disagree with that which is why I ask: if it’s one of the best selling games, doesn’t that mean it should have no problem turning a nice profit on unit sales alone? I mean, it’s Star Wars.

That's the "how much profit is enough" question, which is beyond the scope here. While I think initial sales are actually going to get a boost for this, they were going to keep a large ongoing team working on the game for the foreseeable future. That's why GTA5 still exists and gets big additions. That's how this model of continuing to add content to a game exists. If EA can't continue to profit from the game, there is no logic in continuing to add content for it. The numbers guys don't care that the game sold well a year or two ago. In order to have continual development, it needs continual income.

What EA does with this is still a wait and see. For now, we know we have the power to enact change which is a great accomplishment.

And that's exactly how they want you to feel right now.

Just how people felt when they found out this game was not going to have any DLC or Season Passes - until they realized that EA was still going to extract money one way or another. Either the inevitable has been slightly delayed, or they will cook up an entirely new way. You do realize what is next, right? "Games as service" - which means they will just start on Battlefront 3, which will likely follow a subscription-based model. And you really can't argue with it - either you buy the service, or you don't. They have no obligation or is anyone outside of the "gaming community" going to find the argument that they "owe" it to people to sell them a game up front for one cost.

I really do think when all is said and done, people are going to regret making these stinks along the way, because the chances of us ending up with something truly better are not in our favor.
 

Jahona

Well-Known Member
Edit: I see Mike S posted this a little while ago. For some reason I stopped getting notifications on this thread.

Even with EAs change of heart I'm not rushing out to get the game. I may still just rent it on the old Xbox for the brief single player. After playing this game through development the changes they made the last month or so really put a bad taste in my mouth. It's a fun game and I love DICE but this isn't something I care to support at this time.
 
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LieutLaww

Hello There
Premium Member
In the Parks
No
From what I understand from people in the know, Disney have indeed stepped in and told EA to sort it out, also Disney can remove EA from the Star Wars license the same way that Universal could lose the Marvel license if they don't hold true to the franchise or do something than could damage it. And with Last Jedi so close EA will need to be really careful not to screw up any worse than they have now.
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
From what I understand from people in the know, Disney have indeed stepped in and told EA to sort it out, also Disney can remove EA from the Star Wars license the same way that Universal could lose the Marvel license if they don't hold true to the franchise or do something than could damage it. And with Last Jedi so close EA will need to be really careful not to screw up any worse than they have now.

Disney and EA are so entwined they are not going to separate.

For as much hate as they get, EA has the most resources and the best development houses in the world working under them. No one has any complaints about the gorgeous graphics or the gameplay. That's part of the reason people freaked out because they wanted it so badly. If EA just made terrible games, no one would care. Just like there was no other studio that could have handled Star Wars, there is no other game company that could handle the various Disney titles, which is why they got the job in the first place.
 

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