The Frozen 'Initiative' ...

[TP2000]

The facts were right when the Micechat bois put them out (you may recall that I got increasingly skeptical, BUT they were right -- for a time!)... and, yes, DL was closing the subs for Star Wars ... until they weren't.

I think most of us can understand that. And many of us who read at a 10th grade level or above can also understand the nuance and information MiceAge has provided over the past year about the evolving Subs story. For instance, this paragraph from the first big update on why the Submarine Voyage/Star Wars plans were changing back on January 7th, 2014:

"Meanwhile, at the back of the land and before any of this has formally been announced, TDA is sticking to their original operations budget for Fiscal Year 2014 that was based on Star Wars Land already being announced by now. Disneyland President Michael Colglazier has brought an old WDW tactic out to California, where a WDW attraction is closed for “refurbishment”, but little if any work is done while they save money by not operating or maintaining the attraction for an extended period of time." http://micechat.com/53779-disneyland-update/

And then that exact thing happened as the Submarines were closed, and then just sat there for five months gathering dust until a real 90 day rehab got started in June.

Stuff changes, plans are shelved, money is pulled, executives take a different tack. Sometimes even after some cornball Vice President rehearses his talking points and then goes on the local news and announces big plans that never happen.

 

[BrerJon]

It would be nice if they moved Star Tours to the new land and repurposed the old existing attraction into that new Iron Man simulator going in overseas.

I'm pretty sure that's what they'll do, but won't rebuild Star Tours elsewhere, just close it.

Disney very rarely builds anything without (at least planning to) use it in multiple parks. The Stark ride at Hong Kong looks like it uses Star Tours type simulators, so I suspect Star Tours at Disneyland will be replaced with Iron Man, using the same show building and simulators, with C3PO's animatronic replaced by Marvel ones etc., and the whole of Tomorrowland will be given a 'soft' Marvel overlay (Stark Expo in Innoventions etc.)

Then at the back of the park they'll build a Star Wars shopping and dining area designed for maximum cash extraction, and rides being a spinner and a brand new e-ticket.

Star Tours is popular at DL but not so much at WDW, except during Star Wars Weekends, so closing it in California might create more demand for it in Florida. It would also generate least fan objection as a) Star Wars is being covered even better elsewhere in the park and c) there are two other parks in the world with the same attraction, and an older version running in Paris.

 

[SJN1279]

Star Tours is popular at DL but not so much at WDW, except during Star Wars Weekends, so closing it in California might create more demand for it in Florida. It would also generate least fan objection as a) Star Wars is being covered even better elsewhere in the park and c) there are two other parks in the world with the same attraction, and an older version running in Paris.

Star Tours has much lower capacity in California than it does in Florida.

 

[twebber55]

Star Tours has much lower capacity in California than it does in Florida.

really i never knew that , i always thought it was because DL just has so many more people visiting than DHS

 

[SirLink]

really i never knew that , i always thought it was because DL just has so many more people visiting than DHS

Placement and capacity are two of the reasons why Star Tours always seems more popular at Disneyland.

 

[doctornick]

really i never knew that , i always thought it was because DL just has so many more people visiting than DHS

IIRC, it's 4 pods in DL and 6 in DHS, so that would be 50% more capacity in Florida. Combine that with much higher attendance at DL compared to DHS and you have a formula for much longer wait times in California. It also doesn't help that that corner of the park in DHS probably doesn't get a lot of foot traffic, especially late in the day unlike DL where the ride is at the entrance of TL near the hub.

I'm skeptical that ST is simply "more popular" with guests in DLR compared to WDW.

 

[Mike S]

I'm pretty sure that's what they'll do that but won't rebuild Star Tours elsewhere, just close it.

Disney very rarely builds anything without (at least planning to) use it in multiple parks. The Stark ride at Hong Kong looks like it uses Star Tours type simulators, so I suspect Star Tours at Disneyland will be replaced with Iron Man, using the same show building and simulators, with C3PO's animatronic replaced by Marvel ones etc., and the whole of Tomorrowland will be given a 'soft' Marvel overlay.

Then at the back of the park they'll build a Star Wars shopping and dining area designed for maximum cash extraction, and rides being a spinner and a brand new e-ticket.

Star Tours is popular at DL but not so much at WDW, except during Star Wars Weekends, so closing it in California might create more demand for it in Florida. It would also generate least fan objection as a) Star Wars is being covered even better elsewhere in the park and c) there are two other parks in the world with the same attraction, and an older version running in Paris.

Maybe Disneyland's C3PO's could be moved to Paris to save on costs when they update to Star Tours 2. If the ride actually closes that is.

 

[BrerJon]

IIRC, it's 4 pods in DL and 6 in DHS, so that would be 50% more capacity in Florida. Combine that with much higher attendance at DL compared to DHS and you have a formula for much longer wait times in California. It also doesn't help that that corner of the park in DHS probably doesn't get a lot of foot traffic, especially late in the day unlike DL where the ride is at the entrance of TL near the hub.

I'm skeptical that ST is simply "more popular" with guests in DLR compared to WDW.

This would make a lot of sense, I didn't realise WDW had more simulators.

I've never understood why Star Tours always seems so empty, yet Toy Story has record lines, and I suspect the location is problematic, but I also suspect that many WDW guests, especially those without English as a first language, just don't realise Star Tours means Star Wars. Sadly, if they changed the name to 'Star Wars: Starspeeder Chase' I bet lines would grow enormously.

 

[BrerJon]

Maybe Disneyland's C3PO's could be moved to Paris to save on costs when they update to Star Tours 2. If the ride actually closes that is.

I like your thinking. There has been talk for a while of a Star Wars mini-land, Toy Story style, at the back of Discoveryland - and it's been odd that Paris Star Tours has never updated.

So maybe the delay is due to them waiting for the Disneyland one to shut so that the guts and props of the ride can be sent to Paris, where they'll take the same basic concept for a shop and a restaurant from whatever Disneyland does in their Star Wars land, but uses 'The Adventures Continue' as the big Star Wars e-ticket, giving them a brand new mini-land for very little money.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I'd disagree. The MK needs added capacity to deal with the crowds it gets and, possibly as this is not a given, a few million more a year if things get better. Disney hasn't done much of anything to ADD capacity at MK. They have replaced it and used FP+ to better distribute crowds.

Other parks need the help and they're getting it ... very, very, very, very ... someone type 'very' out here about 657 times ... slowly.

Getting higher capacity/demand to the other parks may also help out MK.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I appreciate the support, believe me. But I don't think anyone ripped me off here (and it happens enough so I tend to tell when it does). A lot of this stuff (Frozen and SDL has been out there ... and if I knew the SW news back in early spring, then maybe their source did too!)

As to the Marvel rumor, while I haven't heard about it, it does make sense. They are looking for a more permanent Marvel presence and they aren't even close to talking about a third gate. RnRC was supposed to be a Phase II DCA addition opening in 2006 where the empty Millionaire building is now (source: take a look at the Disney Springs video!) and there are plans to retheme the ride in Paris to Spideyman. So, no, I don't think that is made up.

But thanks for the support!

I wonder if the Rock 'n' Roller Coaster off the shelf Marvel coaster approach is the preferred attraction because in theory it could be re-themed if they do decide to have a Marvel based gate.

 

[twebber55]

This would make a lot of sense, I didn't realise WDW had more simulators.

I've never understood why Star Tours always seems so empty, yet Toy Story has record lines, and I suspect the location is problematic, but I also suspect that many WDW guests, especially those without English as a first language, just don't realise Star Tours means Star Wars. Sadly, if they changed the name to 'Star Wars: Starspeeder Chase' I bet lines would grow enormously.

i just dont think its that great of a ride..the newer version is much better than the old version but its still just a simulator...on TPI it gets rated no higher than fourth in the parks

 

[twebber55]

Getting higher capacity/demand to the other parks may also help out MK.

i agree...adding Frozen to MK (which is the best from a thematic sense) just adds more people to MK and might actually make it worse

 

[DVC91]

And plenty of times things are designed, approved and even have land prepped (sometimes announcements to the media and general public) and don't happen.

So ... WRE was going to be built at MK in the 70s ... EPCOT was going to add an Africa pavilion in the 80s ... MK, EPCOT and MGM all were going to get the Matterhorn at various times ... and, yes, DL was closing the subs for Star Wars ... until they weren't.

Aren't there also sections of Pop Century that were in the process of being constructed then just left to rot?

 

[dstrawn9889]

Aren't there also sections of Pop Century that were in the process of being constructed then just left to rot?

that area you speak of is now called the Art of Animation Resort

 

[Mike S]

Getting higher capacity/demand to the other parks may also help out MK.

Adding to MK as well as the other parks would help even more. MK needs to expand capacity.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Absolutely.

But I am afraid that battle has long since been lost with a few exceptions (mostly in China!)

Disney (and UNI) ... they're going to grab onto IP that is successful and that is all you'll see in parks for many, many years to come.

I'm aware that at present the battle almost industry wide has been lost, but I'm here to critique so I see no reason to bend to "reality."

Probably your best post ever here (my opinion, obviously!)

Today's Disney BRAND-ed fans are absolutely toxic to what Disney created and nurtured over four decades of creating and running theme parks. They have very little clue as to what made Disney what it was ... and people my age (how old am I @englanddg ? ) are just viewed as relics when we try and explain why toons don't belong in World Showcase or why the WL is themed, but the AoA is decorated etc. Or why Disney always played on nostalgia, but not self-reverential nostalgia for itself or for guests prior visits! Etc ...

It's not just Disney fans. It seems that when there is no reverence for the reference there is a natural progression into absurdity.

The facts were right when the Micechat bois put them out (you may recall that I got increasingly skeptical, BUT they were right -- for a time!)

People don't like hearing things that don't pan out, but if we all just waited to see what actually opened, then really where would the fun be?

And plenty of times things are designed, approved and even have land prepped (sometimes announcements to the media and general public) and don't happen.

So ... WRE was going to be built at MK in the 70s ... EPCOT was going to add an Africa pavilion in the 80s ... MK, EPCOT and MGM all were going to get the Matterhorn at various times ... and, yes, DL was closing the subs for Star Wars ... until they weren't.

I was more mocking all the bizarre excuses that were being thought up on MiceChat to justify the open ended nature of the attraction's closure and long period of nothing happening.

 

[phillip sugarman]

I appreciate the support, believe me. But I don't think anyone ripped me off here (and it happens enough so I tend to tell when it does). A lot of this stuff (Frozen and SDL has been out there ... and if I knew the SW news back in early spring, then maybe their source did too!)

As to the Marvel rumor, while I haven't heard about it, it does make sense. They are looking for a more permanent Marvel presence and they aren't even close to talking about a third gate. RnRC was supposed to be a Phase II DCA addition opening in 2006 where the empty Millionaire building is now (source: take a look at the Disney Springs video!) and there are plans to retheme the ride in Paris to Spideyman. So, no, I don't think that is made up.

But thanks for the support!

So my guess is that before Disneyland even starts talking about a third park they need to address some issues. Is it most likely that Disneyland will start talking about a third park after they build more hotels, parking, add a car trolley system, and add expansions in both parks?

 

[TP2000]

So my guess is that before Disneyland even starts talking about a third park they need to address some issues. Is it most likely that Disneyland will start talking about a third park after they build more hotels, parking, add a car trolley system, and add expansions in both parks?

What's a "car trolley system"? And why does Disneyland need one?

 

[doctornick]

i agree...adding Frozen to MK (which is the best from a thematic sense) just adds more people to MK and might actually make it worse

Yeah, MK really "needs" additional rides/attractions that add capacity without causing an attendance increase. There is an argument that the FLE might have been beneficial in that regard since none of the additions were massive draws in and off themselves, but the land opened up more space and added high capacity rides (plus doubled Dumbo's capacity).

I agree that the biggest thing that MK needs is having the other three parks become more of a draw. I actually don't have a problem with TDO not adding much of anything to MK ikn the short term if they were buffing up the other parks considerably.