The fallacy of overcrowded parks......

flynnibus

Premium Member
Again, it's all online. Google "plan my Disney trip" or anything similar and a wealth of information comes up.

We're now talking in circles. Research the trip. Use online resources. It helps alleviate surprises. If one spends little to no time researching and planning they have no one else to blame but themselves. Except on this forum where everyone just blames Disney, lol.


We're talking in circles because you went back to step one with your strawman... as to responding to this particular point about 'its all online' - I can just quote posts from yesterday and save myself the effort of repeating myself

This is a 'blame the customer' mentality that only works when you are already informed and knowledgable about everything you should know. There is culpability on Disney when they make things so complex or unique to them that a normal customer would not be aware of or expect.

[...]
Many topics aren't clear at all from Disney.. and you must rely on 3rd party sites to educate and inform customers. This is not the norm. I didn't spend 3-4 days researching how to book my hotel and meals when visiting Hilton Head. I didn't need to be warned to say "Make sure you visit all these 3rd party sites or read these books to make sure you enjoy your vacation!"

Most customers have an expectation of what to expect with things based on common conventions. Disney bucks many of those trends and you can't always blame customers for 'failing to do their homework' because they didn't goto Disney University before taking a vacation.

And you still didn't acknowledge that your theoretical sucks vs what the real Disney guest must go through to avoid being the butt of the resort.
 

Shouldigo12

Well-Known Member
I felt like Disney did their job of making it known that ADRs and FP were a thing. Maybe they don't make it obvious how needed they are, but they aren't a secret. Every pamphlet I got after booking my trip had a page about FP and dining, and I got an almost ridiculous number of emails reminding me it was x days until I could book dining. Shoot, every time I called their customer service line the employee would note I had the DDP and ask if I wanted help making reservations. If you want to make the argument that you shouldn't have to be making these reservations so far out, sure. I can understand that point of view. But I don't understand arguing that people shouldn't know basic info about a place they're spending thousands of dollars to visit. This isn't some big secret that certain restaurants can be hard to get and rides for some rides will be insanely long without a FP, it's one of the first things on any "Planning a DW trip" list.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I felt like Disney did their job of making it known that ADRs and FP were a thing. Maybe they don't make it obvious how needed they are, but they aren't a secret. Every pamphlet I got after booking my trip had a page about FP and dining, and I got an almost ridiculous number of emails reminding me it was x days until I could book dining. Shoot, every time I called their customer service line the employee would note I had the DDP and ask if I wanted help making reservations. If you want to make the argument that you shouldn't have to be making these reservations so far out, sure. I can understand that point of view. But I don't understand arguing that people shouldn't know basic info about a place they're spending thousands of dollars to visit. This isn't some big secret that certain restaurants can be hard to get and rides for some rides will be insanely long without a FP, it's one of the first things on any "Planning a DW trip" list.

You're coming at it from someone who booked a package at the resort though. Imagine you're someone who just bought tickets because they didn't want to pay Disney Hotel rates. And it's not really that 'ADRs are a secret'... it's more like the knowledge of "if you don't do it, you're screwed". Or the other example (because costs were part of the surprise being discussed) the idea of actual dining prices shifting due to 'seasonal pricing'.... or the idea that 'park hours are not that regular' and actually vary per day.

The whole discussion was that you needed to know all these Disney peculiarities and they aren't just the same as everyday planning most people expect when traveling/vacationing. It's Disney has a ton of complexities that really have little equal elsewhere... or at the least, certainly not as common place.
 

xdan0920

Think for yourselfer
Original Poster
I’ve mentioned the problems with predictive scheduling many times, and I’ve had people argue with me that it’s just not true despite my deep knowledge of the system’s intentions.

Here’s a link to something I wrote a few months ago. The gist is that FP+ has affected CM staffing numbers, attraction loading procedures, and even open quick service stations to ensure there’s always a line, even on days with low attendance.


Back during the development of FP+, a pencil pusher decided guests are satisfied if they get to do 8 things a day. This was when a five-day park hopper was about $275.

I don’t understand why Disney would think it’s better to force guests to stand in queues instead of allowing them to have pleasant days during slower times of the year, but someone up high decided to increase profits by charging more and staffing less.

Edit: Also, here’s another link where I explain how Ops have generally used FP+ to hold standby queues even on attractions that should merge. You can also see a few users accusing me of being wrong because they saw a CM merging everyone. It’s true that more seasoned CMs will properly merge guests to keep queues moving, which is the way the system used to work years ago. But under FP+, the official SOP — and the one that most CPs innocently follow because they’re supposed to — is to split Standby and FP+ and keep them that way.

Combined with the silly tier systems at Epcot and the Studios, plus the closed restaurants and registers, plus the events Disney keeps marketing — the parks always feel crowded, despite the hard numbers that say attendance is actually lower.

Excellent post. I’m completely spent right now, halloween with two boys. But I wanted to bookmark this for the morning. This is the kind of discussion I was hoping for. Not anecdotes about Elizas personal experiences as a Disney Shill, I mean, guest.
 

HongKongFu

Well-Known Member
Eddie Sotto once shared here that only something like 25% of guests experienced Space Mountain on any given day.

I feel an urge to pick at that some.

That 25% needs much more context:

Height requirements, physical/physiological psychological impediments and sheer ignorance of the attraction's importance must be accounted for that 25% to be meaningful.
 

HongKongFu

Well-Known Member
People will continue to be admitted until the parks become dangerous.

......a most perplexing statement.

I'm not understanding how a crowded Disney park makes it dangerous. or at least dangerous enough tell us about this change in risk.

Disney crowding creates missery and annoyance of course but danger as in losing life or limb? I'm not getting it.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I feel an urge to pick at that some.

That 25% needs much more context:

Height requirements, physical/physiological psychological impediments and sheer ignorance of the attraction's importance must be accounted for that 25% to be meaningful.
More context is not needed. Space Mountain is not sending out scores of empty trains. Its capacity is being utilized so even if everyone visiting the park could and wanted to ride, the attraction would not be able to meet such demand.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
True and on a separate point I don't like lazy unfinished stats.
There was nothing unfinished about it. It’s an attraction known for commanding consistent demand and it is only able to be experienced by a surprisingly small fraction of guests. You thought you had a “gotcha” instead of thinking through why it was noted.
 

Rich Brownn

Well-Known Member
Having been a survivor of the NY World's Fair we always advance planned, even when we went to Disneyland in 1970. At the Fair if you didn't know where you wanted to go, you'd see nothing. (Think Disney is crowded? Imagine 5 times that many people.. 55 million in a 12-month period. Two-to-four hour lines were the norm). We even made sure we knew where the all important restroom were. :D
 

eliza61nyc

Well-Known Member
You're coming at it from someone who booked a package at the resort though. Imagine you're someone who just bought tickets because they didn't want to pay Disney Hotel rates. And it's not really that 'ADRs are a secret'... it's more like the knowledge of "if you don't do it, you're screwed". Or the other example (because costs were part of the surprise being discussed) the idea of actual dining prices shifting due to 'seasonal pricing'.... or the idea that 'park hours are not that regular' and actually vary per day.

The whole discussion was that you needed to know all these Disney peculiarities and they aren't just the same as everyday planning most people expect when traveling/vacationing. It's Disney has a ton of complexities that really have little equal elsewhere... or at the least, certainly not as common place.

how are they screwed? ok, let me back that up. what do you define as "screwed"? not getting into cinderella's castle?? well then yes I agree with you. Not being able to get a decent meal. bulll. again reading is your friend. a simple "where to eat at disney" will tell you what to do if you don't have an adr. I've never ever not been able to get a sit down meal at the last minute. Now again let me give a caveat. I don't go during July or Christmas so it's definitely depends on the time.

Sorry flynnibus you are the reason that lie perpetuates. YOU absolutely can get a decent meal at the 11th hour. you are in no way "screwed". I would think anyone with a modicum of common sense who has travel one iota could figure out that if you want to eat with princesses you need adr's. that is not a "peculiarity".
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
how are they screwed? ok, let me back that up. what do you define as "screwed"? not getting into cinderella's castle?? well then yes I agree with you. Not being able to get a decent meal. bulll. again reading is your friend. a simple "where to eat at disney" will tell you what to do if you don't have an adr. I've never ever not been able to get a sit down meal at the last minute. Now again let me give a caveat. I don't go during July or Christmas so it's definitely depends on the time.

Sorry flynnibus you are the reason that lie perpetuates. YOU absolutely can get a decent meal at the 11th hour. you are in no way "screwed". I would think anyone with a modicum of common sense who has travel one iota could figure out that if you want to eat with princesses you need adr's. that is not a "peculiarity".
Which website tells people the days they should make a dining reservation because the quick service venues will be operating at reduced capacity so that there are half hour plus queues to order with similar waits for the food afterwards?
 
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LaughingGravy

Well-Known Member
I dont care what the official or unofficial numbers are, or what crowding may be artificially manufactured by Disney. All I care about is getting enough things done in a park day so it feels like I accomplished something. When I compare with past years, it surely shows less being able to be done and my level of frustration has increased. Outside of the attractions, the once open spaces are super crowded and theres less room to maneuver around. Sure seems more crowded to me.
Just adding that when in Disneyland recently, their circle in front of the castle is still lovely, intact and has many benches compared to the ridiculousness that they did in Florida. Disneyland's MaxPass system is so much better with not being able to activate it until ALL parties on the purchase are in the park as well as not being able to get the fastpasses until actually being in the park. Still $ per hour, Disneyland is the far greater value. Just look at their operating hours on any given day.
 

PixarPerfect

Active Member
Having been a survivor of the NY World's Fair we always advance planned, even when we went to Disneyland in 1970. At the Fair if you didn't know where you wanted to go, you'd see nothing. (Think Disney is crowded? Imagine 5 times that many people.. 55 million in a 12-month period. Two-to-four hour lines were the norm). We even made sure we knew where the all important restroom were. :D

Exactly!
 

eliza61nyc

Well-Known Member
Which website tells people the days they should make a dining reservation because the quick service venues will be operating at reduced capacity so that there are half hour plus queues to order with similar waits for the food afterwards?
lol, none because no one gives a rats patooie about how the quick services operate. Most normal guest at the parks want to know where they can get a meal.

But in the interest of fun. I found this article in exactly 12 secs
https://disney.urbantastebud.com/best-disney-restaurants-without-a-reservation/


Just remember though, this is Disney World, and no matter how empty the restaurant or park, in general, might be, you will probably have to wait. It could be only 3 minutes, but still, it beats out not eating there in the first place.

Now in the interest of full disclosure, yes I did have to actually spend 2 minutes and read. which evidently people planning trips seem to not want to do.

I'm now realizing that it's not actually Disney, it's that we've become the humans from "walle". we (general use) just want to show up in a lounge chair and have every thing brought to us. Next you're going to tell me that people don't know that at a theme park at 12 noon the fast service places are going to be crowded. SMH.

ok I'm out because this is just mind boggling. I'm really starting to wonder how folks even made it to Disneyworld. seriously.
 

PixarPerfect

Active Member
When people continuously compare two options and state that A) is superior and B) is riddled with X problems, I always wonder why those people even bother with B at all. A is clearly their choice and makes them happy so why not stick with it rather than go to B and complain later?

Life's too short and the world far too big to vacation in places that make one miserable.
 

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