The Fall of Walt Disney Imagineering by Tom Morrow

[Tim G]

I noticed this as well, Jay Raluso is not high on the SaveDisney totem pole. Maybe they know something that we don't know. How much of the current stuff was already set in motion for WDW before he came aboard we can only guess.
After reading this I think I understand WHY Marty Sklar kissed Uncle Mikey "bootie" a few months ago. He's afraid of management tanking the whole department. Since management REWARDS people who agree with them, a little brown nosing could hopefully get them some power back and hold on until Mr. Ego is put out to pasture.

Corrus, didn't you say Sklar needs to go? Anything specifically wrong with him?

No Kev, I never said that, IMO Marty is still the best man for the job.
And Marty is not the guy to kiss anyones a$$... not yours not mine and certainly not Eisners...
But as we're talking about A$$ licking, I'll give you the vassal of Mr. Disney...
who does everything for him...
Eisner has to go... but shurely R.E.D. aswell...
He's worse than he was with the company...
R.E.D. never was any good for the comapny, and never will be...
He was the one who always yelled that we could without Pixar... now he's gone, he states otherwise...
He was the one who thought WDI could do more with less....AAARRRGGGHHH... the guy makes me sick to the stomach,

And don't tell me, he wasn't allowed on the board meetings...
He was at first... but after years and years of naggin' ...the board got tired of him...
So I'm glad he made SaveDisney a success... at least R.E.D's got a life now...
Mr. Disney?? if there's another one we want to get rid off after the current management... it's you...
If you really want to put down a company... Please do what R.E.D. tells you to do...
If you like to believe R.E.D. is GOD because his name is Disney, be my guest..
While in his job he never had any affection with the company... but now when his own money gets involved, suddenly there's noting better than the Walt Disney Company...
I wish he was that way while he was still in office...

His main topic is always hitting low...
What Eisner does or/and has done...
Let's turn this around... What did he do... Nothing much...
Eisner is certainly NOT my friend, but as we finally close this book in 2006,
Eisner has done more for the company than Roy ever will accomplish...
And the worst of it all that even highly educated people believe everything he publishes...


It's SaveDisney all the way... and that's what I hate about these articles...
Everyone believes them, without any doubt... because R.E.D won't tell you otherwise...

Is there life after Roy E. Di$ney?
Thank god (not Roy) Yes there is...

Is there a future for WDI?
YES (no thanks to Roy)
But thanks to WDI itself, People think WDI does nothing against the current situation... That they are like the AA's, we're creating.

Will R.E.D.'s fantasty stories end after a managemnt change?
NO... (of course not, He'll always be nagging and wining)


PS.
This very angry post will cost me a lot of Rep. Points, but I don't care.

AND IT IS NOT SO THAT I'M HAVING A GRUDGE TO ANYONE ON THIS BOARDS
I just wanted to get it of my chest for a long time, and now I finally did.. Amen!

 

[General Grizz]

No Kev, I never said that, IMO Marty is still the best man for the job.
And Marty is not the guy to kiss anyones a$$... not yours not mine and certainly not Eisners...
But as we're talking about A$$ licking, I'll give you the vassal of Mr. Disney...
who does everything for him...
Eisner has to go... but shurely R.E.D. aswell...
He's worse than he was with the company...
R.E.D. never was any good for the comapny, and never will be...
He was the one who always yelled that we could without Pixar... now he's gone, he states otherwise...
He was the one who thought WDI could do more with less....AAARRRGGGHHH... the guy makes me sick to the stomach,

And don't tell me, he wasn't allowed on the board meetings...
He was at first... but after years and years of naggin' ...the board got tired of him...
So I'm glad he made SaveDisney a success... at least R.E.D's got a life now...
Mr. Disney?? if there's another one we want to get rid off after the current management... it's you...
If you really want to put down a company... Please do what R.E.D. tells you to do...
If you like to believe R.E.D. is GOD because his name is Disney, be my guest..
While in his job he never had any affection with the company... but now when his own money gets involved, suddenly there's noting better than the Walt Disney Company...
I wish he was that way while he was still in office...

His main topic is always hitting low...
What Eisner does or/and has done...
Let's turn this around... What did he do... Nothing much...
Eisner is certainly NOT my friend, but as we finally close this book in 2006,
Eisner has done more for the company than Roy ever will accomplish...
And the worst of it all that even highly educated people believe everything he publishes...


It's SaveDisney all the way... and that's what I hate about these articles...
Everyone believes them, without any doubt... because R.E.D won't tell you otherwise...

Is there life after Roy E. Di$ney?
Thank god (not Roy) Yes there is...

Is there a future for WDI?
YES (no thanks to Roy)
But thanks to WDI itself, People think WDI does nothing against the current situation... That they are like the AA's, we're creating.

Will R.E.D.'s fantasty stories end after a managemnt change?
NO... (of course not, He'll always be nagging and wining)


PS.
This very angry post will cost me a lot of Rep. Points, but I don't care.

AND IT IS NOT SO THAT I'M HAVING A GRUDGE TO ANYONE ON THIS BOARDS
I just wanted to get it of my chest for a long time, and now I finally did.. Amen!

I wish I knew more about Roy, but I have a lot of respect for him based on his understanding of the values and the need to get rid of Eisner.

I don't want Roy as CEO, but he seems to be a great chance to give Eisner not only the boot, but perhaps a hand at a much better successor.

 

[Tim G]

I the old days, I remember both DL and WDW was clean, in good shape, and freshly painted all the time.

Imagineering hasn't got anything to do with that...

 

[Tim G]

I wish I knew more about Roy, but I have a lot of respect for him based on his understanding of the values and the need to get rid of Eisner.

Values? Values??... haha...Roy only's got one value... his own... I had a whole lot of respect for him... but that changed very quickly after a few years...
It's not what people always think that he never had the chance... He always looked after the fact that anyone else didn't have any chance...
What he knows he has from books... not from his (so-called) job with the company...
As I said before how come, everyone thinks the man is a myth.. a good and honest soul... it's his appearence... but behind that friendly face, there's a whole different Roy, a egocentric, smooth talking man, who'se trying everyone to follow him... His advantage is Eisner who is the bad guy to us anyway...
Therefore he looks so pure and honest... But he's an instigator and those people are dangerous, very dangerous.. and in the end he really doesn't care about what the people (we the disney fans) want.. believe me...
I really I feel sorry for him, he's trying to get rid of people that he really hates... over other peoples backs... He's using anyone to get his goal... (like any other man with delusions of grandeur)
(my mother told me. never to use people to get what you want)
If he's tired of you he'll throw you away like an old pair of shoes...
Actually he's the same as Eisner, except his name is Disney, But the public already dislikes Eisners making him the hero... don't let him fool you... that man is a threat for the Walt Disney Company...

I don't want Roy as CEO,

I know Grizz, I absolutely don't doubt your integrity

but he seems to be a great chance to give Eisner not only the boot, but perhaps a hand at a much better successor.

Yep! one of his crawlers... he's got lots of them around...
But beware, the moment that happens WDI will cease to exist, he'll see to that... He still hates WDI (like his father) and thinks it's one of the biggest money consuming departments... dispite his friendly face and smooth words...


Greetz!
Corrus.

 

[McArcDes]

I have read this whole thread with great interest. Along with everyone else I lament the declining situation in WDI and the rest of the Disney company. having had the great fortune to have spend a few months working for WDI in Florida I have seen much of this up close.

The comment was made asking why Disney does not use Contractors like Universal and Sick Flaggs. (I call it that because I went to one for the first time last Tuesday, can you tell I did not like it) Disney does use contractors! When I was there the only ones that were WDI employees were the managers. I was considered an employee but alas I was only an intern. The others that were there were from local Orlando Architectural and Graphics firms. WDI management figures it is cheaper to pay these firms upwards of $100 per hour for a designer and or draftsman than to hire someone full time with benefits.

At one time WDI had the best and brightest designers, engineers, architects etc. working for them. Now we wonder who is designing Universal and places like Sick Flaggs. All those best and brightest that once upon a time worked for WDI. Who do you think designed Spiderman at Universal? Former Imagineers. Who designed all of Universal Islands of Adventure? Former Imagineers now working for or having started their own firms. Same can be said for Disney Feature Animation. Disney trains all these people only to let them go and put all their talents to work for someone else. It is a crying shame.

If the right CEO can come into power at Disney, someone who loves the company and what they USED to be all about, then they can fan the spark of creative magic that the current management has and is working so hard to extinguish.

On an optimistic note though. We are losing the people that were there to be trained by Walt himself and the second generation Imagineers that the Icons like John Hench trained and influenced are disappearing too....(I bet you are saying how the heck is this optimistic!?!?!) When the time comes that we turn the corner where the creative spark is nourished and rekindeled then a under the right leadership a new generation of innovaters with new ideas and insperations will come to help bring Disney and WDI to a new and greater height in excellence. I for one hope for this and my dream is that I would be a part of it.

 

[KevinPage]

This very angry post will cost me a lot of Rep. Points, but I don't care. AND IT IS NOT SO THAT I'M HAVING A GRUDGE TO ANYONE ON THIS BOARDS I just wanted to get it of my chest for a long time, and now I finally did.. Amen!

As DEPUTY, I have your back, MARSHALL. While I don't have the inside info that you have (nor any of us) it is nice to hear a "counter point". There are always 2 sides to every story no matter how black-n-white it may seem.

The only thing I do find strange (and I'm not doubting you) but let's say that Roy somehow gets back into a "power position", after building his whole campaign on getting back to the roots, how great WDI is, etc. do you think he would just abandon everything he publicly preached? Is he that ignorant? He could have gotten away with that before the whole Save Disney campaign, but now he is FAR more visible & would look like a total hippocrite.

Maybe that is why Marty Sklar came to the defense of Eisner against Roy (if indeed Roy dislikes WDI).

I understand that when you hear EVERYONE taking one side on an issue it grates on you, so when you serve up a counterpoint it would tend to be viewed as "heated". Do you think there was a bit of :fork: Devils's Advocate :fork: in your approach?

 

[General Grizz]

ATTENTION: All negative points you would give to Corrus for his respectable disagreement with some of your views should be transferred to KEVIN PAGE, who is more deserving.

Kidding, Kevin. :lol: Hope no one bumps you down, Corrus.

I've been thinking about this for a while. It's hard to know Roy and Stan (What about Mr. Gold, Corrus??) -- but I doubt that, once they reinstate new power, they will push for changes contrary to what they put up on the website. That stuff is really heart-felt (at least by the Save Disney staff writers).

D-Army, however, will be an upcoming resource with low-class, but sincere, bears and Robs and Nims of the like. . . so stay tuned.

 

[DarkMeasures]

I just wonder. When do you think the powershift will happen?

When does the board vote for the positions in power?

And I am sure Eisner has enough money that he can retire and live wealthy the rest of his life.

 

[ClemsonTigger]

Politicians vs. Dreamers

I think Corrus has one of the main undercurrents identified in that RED is not the compassionate savior he makes himself out to be. His trump card is his name, and he plays that like a fine instrument. You don't have to look too hard to see the paint chipping off of his white horse. This is a personality struggle, pure and simple. He doesn't like Eisner and is out to get him, truth, dreams and Disney Corp. be damned. Once Eisner is gone, and assuming Roy is not reappointed, his bile will just dissipate without his "villian" to attack and blame ALL problems on.

And as for Eisner, even Darth Vader had good in him deep down ...(and before that bad spell, he was a pretty decent guy).

My only solace after reading this article is that once change occurs, starting with the retirement of M.E., Disney's Parks have nowhere to go but up.

Well, that's my hope at least. Since1976

Be careful what you look from...just 'cause there is a long way to look up doesn't mean you're anywhere near the bottom!

As we talk about business models and a balance of financial and creative progress, remember that Eisner with Mr. Wells had one of the most successful partnership in business and particularly for Disney. ME seemed to be totally content in that relationship, and if not for tragedy, I don't believe we would be vilifying him today. He lost his way after the death of his "partner" and in his attempt to fill the void, "remarried" poorly. In any case, that very difficult balance is what we (and Disney) need for the future.

It was a similar model to the original Walt/Roy relationship. Walt on his own, most likely would have led the company to financial ruin (many times over) and Roy was overly conservative. The yin and yang was what made Disney the real success, ie. sharing, and it's what we need to hope for for the future.

 

[KevinPage]

ATTENTION: All negative points you would give to Corrus for his respectable disagreement with some of your views should be transferred to KEVIN PAGE, who is more deserving.

A bear shaving will commence, mark my words!!!!!!

D-Army, however, will be an upcoming resource with low-class Robs and Nims

What a ringing endorsement :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[KevinPage]

You don't have to look too hard to see the paint chipping off of his white horse. This is a personality struggle, pure and simple. He doesn't like Eisner and is out to get him, truth, dreams and Disney Corp. be damned. Once Eisner is gone, and assuming Roy is not reappointed, his bile will just dissipate without his "villian" to attack and blame ALL problems on.

I think that is an aweful big statement to say without personally knowing someone. I'm not saying Roy is a boy scout, no one in the corporate world is, but he grew up involved in this, & I sincerely think he does cares. To what extent is a debatable point

And as for Eisner, even Darth Vader had good in him deep down ...(and before that bad spell, he was a pretty decent guy).

But the question is, can our Luke Skywalker (Grizz) turn him? Or is our savior just a sheep in bear clothing?

It was a similar model to the original Walt/Roy relationship. Walt on his own, most likely would have led the company to financial ruin (many times over) and Roy was overly conservative. The yin and yang was what made Disney the real success, ie. sharing, and it's what we need to hope for for the future.

Excellent point. Just like marriage, businesses make strange bedfellows

 

[KaliSplash]

Great comparison on Eisner-Wells and Walt-Roy. Many people today seem to miss the point that Roy Sr. balanced Walt's emphasis on expensive, wonderful details. Details that we've come to love over the years. Details that make Disney parks different from the Universal, Six Flags, Paramount chains.
True, if Wells had not died, we probably wouldn't be so upset with Eisner. (Although at this point, one or the other might have gone their own way by now.)
I hope a working solution can be found. I don't know what it is and I don't know enough about the current Roy to comment intelligently. But as I have ranted on other threads, I worry that whoever replaces Eisner will be a worse version, more focused on the next quarterly report than on improving quality, the key ingredient that sets Disney apart.
At least Eisner, at some time, seemed to know and recognize quality. (Or maybe that part was all Wells). I am hoping that he or someone can recover that grasp.

 

[hawkkid011790]

This article brings up so very good points, but not all do i agree with

 

[TRITON4ME]

Makes me think of that time Eisner had the nerve to say 2-D animation is dead....Well duh...I mean you did kill it....

:brick: :brick:

Will the insanity ever end?!

Yeah and then to put the icing on the cake he does not renew the contract with Pixar Studios!! So what type of animation is Disney involved with now, seing that Pixar was their only 3-D Animation outlet. Although, I personally do not think Pixar can thrive the way it did with Disney without Disney influence!

 

[Woody13]

Yeah and then to put the icing on the cake he does not renew the contract with Pixar Studios!! So what type of animation is Disney involved with now, seing that Pixar was their only 3-D Animation outlet. Although, I personally do not think Pixar can thrive the way it did with Disney without Disney influence!

Eisner did not walk away from Pixar. Jobs walked away from Disney and made totally unreasonable demands to boot!

 

[bigbadwolf]

Its all about the money now.. More money... less creativity... which means more lazyness... and even more less creativity...

 

[ArchiDanDisney]

:hurl: :brick: :zipit:

 

[HauntedPirate]

The whole Eisner/Jobs thing, to me, sounds more like both sides being unreasonable with their demands - Disney wants to invest less and get the same back as they do now, and Pixar wants control of what it's already done and will do in the future. I agree 100% that Pixar, at this point, should be able to control it's creations on movies they will create in the future. They signed an agreement for the last half-dozen movies and I'm not sure they will be able to do much about it. I don't agree with Disney's stand that they should be able to fund half the movies' costs and get back half of the profits, plus control the characters and merchandising (where their real interests lie). But Disney does control the existing characters, and will do with them as they will. I wish they'd do something more meaningful with, say, Monsters Inc. (besides the rumored C-ticket ride at DCA).

"I want!" "I want!" "We won't give on our demands!" "You're not being fair!" This all is familiar.... can anyone say.... NHL?

 

[Woody13]

Eisner was ready to accept all the demands made by Jobs, except for one. Jobs wanted retroactive full control over all the characters they had made for Disney (Woody, Buzz, etc.). Eisner refused to agree to that demand and Jobs walked away. I think it is obvious that The Walt Disney Company would never give away it's rights to any of it's characters. Eisner was right. Jobs was wrong.