Rumor The EPCOT Hotel

[Jrb1979]

Despite the damage it would do to the park?

Damage??? Disney doesn't care as long as it brings in the big bucks.

 

[havoc315]

I have stayed in much nicer hotels than the Riviera in New York, Los Angeles, Madrid, London, Florence, and Atlanta (even though I live here -- stayed in one for a wedding). I've also stayed in hotels in Europe that weren't as nice, but they weren't trying to be high end hotels (stayed at a Novotel last time I was in Paris, which was a fine mid-level hotel).

Again, I agree it's all subjective, but I don't think the Riviera is any nicer than your average higher end Marriott/Hilton downtown in a large city. It has a very similar overall feel to me. That doesn't make it a bad hotel (those hotels are generally quite nice), but I don't consider it a high quality 4 star resort.

Let's put it this way... I've stayed in a corner suite in the Taj, on Central Park in NYC, the day of the NYC Marathon....
The Riviera doesn't compare to it. I wouldn't expect the Riviera to compare to it! But the Riviera is also significantly cheaper than the Taj! (Though, the room was an upgrade for my Anniversary.. I think I paid around $800, but the regular rate for the suite would have been about $2500).
Now, location is the #1 defining attribute of real estate pricing. On-site Disney is premium location -- I'd expect pricing similar to what you'd find in Manhattan, in San Francisco, in London.

You keep faulting Riviera for failing to live up to a 5-star hotel. But to me, that's never what it is trying to be. It 100% succeeds at what it is trying to be. I look at it, I'm reminded of the Hotel Negresco in the French Riviera.
I think you'd be hard pressed to find any 4-star hotel that is significantly nicer than the Riviera.

Saying Riviera doesn't live up to a real luxury European hotel.. Well, Beach Club doesn't live up to the Wequassett Resort in Cape Cod, the Beach Club is just a cheap copy...

And the Boardwalk is a cheap facsimile or a time and era that doesn't even exist anymore.

So it seems you are holding Riviera to a completely different standard than the hotels you purport to like.
Riviera doesn't live up to being a 5-star European hotel!
Umm.. Beach Club doesn't live up to being a 5-star New England Beach Club resort that it is trying to emulate either!

 

[UNCgolf]

Let's put it this way... I've stayed in a corner suite in the Taj, on Central Park in NYC, the day of the NYC Marathon....
The Riviera doesn't compare to it. I wouldn't expect the Riviera to compare to it! But the Riviera is also significantly cheaper than the Taj! (Though, the room was an upgrade for my Anniversary.. I think I paid around $800, but the regular rate for the suite would have been about $2500).
Now, location is the #1 defining attribute of real estate pricing. On-site Disney is premium location -- I'd expect pricing similar to what you'd find in Manhattan, in San Francisco, in London.

You keep faulting Riviera for failing to live up to a 5-star hotel. But to me, that's never what it is trying to be. It 100% succeeds at what it is trying to be. I look at it, I'm reminded of the Hotel Negresco in the French Riviera.
I think you'd be hard pressed to find any 4-star hotel that is significantly nicer than the Riviera.

Saying Riviera doesn't live up to a real luxury European hotel.. Well, Beach Club doesn't live up to the Wequassett Resort in Cape Cod, the Beach Club is just a cheap copy...
View attachment 542009

And the Boardwalk is a cheap facsimile or a time and era that doesn't even exist anymore.

So it seems you are holding Riviera to a completely different standard than the hotels you purport to like.
Riviera doesn't live up to being a 5-star European hotel!
Umm.. Beach Club doesn't live up to being a 5-star New England Beach Club resort that it is trying to emulate either!

That's absolutely true -- the difference, at least for me, is that those hotels aren't so widely scattered around the world. I'm a huge history guy and a sucker for the time/era stuff even while acknowledging it's a relatively cheap facsimile, simply because it's not easy to find something similar elsewhere. I don't think the Riviera was a very good idea for a theme in the first place.

I suppose that's really my biggest issue. If I'm going to pay Disney deluxe prices, the hotel either needs a great location, offer something I can't easily get elsewhere (Animal Kingdom Lodge being the main example there), or be an actual 5 star experience like the Four Seasons (which they don't offer). The Riviera doesn't have a great location and I don't feel like it offers anything I can't get in numerous other hotels scattered around the country (and world). I have similar issues with the Contemporary -- it does at least have a great location, but I don't have any interest in staying there.

Also, although I do like the Boardwalk Inn more than the Riviera, I still think it's tremendously overpriced and the location is absolutely a major part of the appeal. None of the Disney deluxes offer an experience commensurate with the price in my opinion with the possible exception of AKL.

 

[havoc315]

That's absolutely true -- the difference, at least for me, is that those hotels aren't so widely scattered around the world. I'm a huge history guy and a sucker for the time/era stuff even while acknowledging it's a relatively cheap facsimile, simply because it's not easy to find something similar elsewhere.

Having done my share of New England Beach vacations, I've found it pretty easy to find similar to Beach Club.

But it appears you missed the theming of Riviera -- there aren't similar hotels "scattered around the world" -- Much like Beach Club is specifically themed to a New England beach resort, Riviera is themed specifically to hotels you'd find in the Riviera. Not "scattered around the world" -- it's specifically inspired by the French and Italian Riviera. [IMO, in some ways successfully, in other ways unsuccessfully, and in many ways better than those hotels]. Even more specifically, it's themed to what French and Italian Riviera hotels looks like in the 1950's, when they were visited by Walt and his wife.
I think many of the criticisms of the Riviera don't understand the theme. Regardless, if I were to nitpick, I would find many ways it fails in the theme. So I see it more as an "inspiration." And for the most part, I see it as very successfully inspired by classic Riviera hotels.

I suppose that's really my biggest issue. If I'm going to pay Disney deluxe prices, the hotel either needs a great location, offer something I can't easily get elsewhere (Animal Kingdom Lodge being the main example there), or be an actual 5 star experience like the Four Seasons (which they don't offer). The Riviera doesn't have a great location and I don't feel like it offers anything I can't get in numerous other hotels scattered around the country (and world).

Yes, but this discussion has been "what if you put the Riviera into Epcot" -- In which case, it would have a GREAT location.
What does Beach Club offer that you can't get in a Epcot-located Riviera? Smaller rooms? A nicer pool?

I have similar issues with the Contemporary -- it does at least have a great location, but I don't have any interest in staying there.

See.... good demonstration of where we differ, subjectively. I love the Contemporary.

I love 2 things about the Beach Club -- the location and the pool. The rest? *shrug*

 

[Magic Feather]

I’ve heard nothing to suggest the hotel is back on.

New personal theory is that this is a bid for the coffee table.
Location makes sense, numbers are about right from what I’ve heard, and since it’s effectively a convention center, it would make sense that a hotel contractor would be bidding on it, instead of people usually used for attractions. Just a mix up in the name.

 

[FigmentFan82]

Aren't Beach Club and Boardwalk considered EPCOT connected?

I think the idea for this rumored Epcot hotel is that there is an entrance that literally connects to the park, like Grand Californian. BC, BW, and YC are Epcot area hotels, not connected

 

[Sir_Cliff]

Let's put it this way... I've stayed in a corner suite in the Taj, on Central Park in NYC, the day of the NYC Marathon....
The Riviera doesn't compare to it. I wouldn't expect the Riviera to compare to it! But the Riviera is also significantly cheaper than the Taj! (Though, the room was an upgrade for my Anniversary.. I think I paid around $800, but the regular rate for the suite would have been about $2500).

These flexes about staying in expensive hotel rooms around the world are honestly making this full-throated defence of Riviera Resort even more puzzling.

You keep faulting Riviera for failing to live up to a 5-star hotel. But to me, that's never what it is trying to be. It 100% succeeds at what it is trying to be. I look at it, I'm reminded of the Hotel Negresco in the French Riviera.

I mean, that's what they're going for. But, really, this looks like a standard modern mid-range hotel with some (rather tacky) decorative elements applied:

For reference...

And the Boardwalk is a cheap facsimile or a time and era that doesn't even exist anymore.

This is the most puzzling critique of all.

So it seems you are holding Riviera to a completely different standard than the hotels you purport to like.
Riviera doesn't live up to being a 5-star European hotel!
Umm.. Beach Club doesn't live up to being a 5-star New England Beach Club resort that it is trying to emulate either!

I think you're missing what people are criticising about Riviera. It's not that the hotel does not match the standards of a 5-star European hotel. It's that it is very obviously a standard, mid-range hotel with a very thin veneer of theming overlaid to try and convince people they're getting a deluxe experience. Most of us acknowledge that the other deluxes aren't really deluxe hotels in terms of rooms and amenities, but at least they put some effort into the veneer when theming those ones!

 

[Phicinfan]

I’ve heard nothing to suggest the hotel is back on.

New personal theory is that this is a bid for the coffee table.
Location makes sense, numbers are about right from what I’ve heard, and since it’s effectively a convention center, it would make sense that a hotel contractor would be bidding on it, instead of people usually used for attractions. Just a mix up in the name.

You have to stop posting logic here, it is much more fun to take this crazy idea and run with it with manic paranoia and fear!!

Seriously man...

Actually that makes a ton of sense, but thought the coffee table got taken off the map with the cost cuttings for Covid

 

[MisterPenguin]

I’ve heard nothing to suggest the hotel is back on.

New personal theory is that this is a bid for the coffee table.
Location makes sense, numbers are about right from what I’ve heard, and since it’s effectively a convention center, it would make sense that a hotel contractor would be bidding on it, instead of people usually used for attractions. Just a mix up in the name.

Well, that makes sense considering what this insider has said...

Festival Area is a compromise. Expect some nice landscaping, plenty on room for booths and tables, a stage area (or at least a place for a stage) and maybe some astro turf.

I'm under the impression that the coffee table is not dead. It's "pushed until we need it/can afford it" which means there is plenty of time for a potential redesign, but there's an exec (trying to nail who down) that was the table's advocate. That exec is still there, and that is why we are getting "placeholder for cool festival center" instead of festival center-lite. My personal guess is that something will be built on that space once private events have bounced back to roughly where they were pre-COVID.

Also, regarding the name "EPCOT Hotel"... what else would they going to call it on the bidding site?

EPCOT Three Layer Toadstool?

EPCOT Convention Center But For Small Groups and Individuals of the General Public Most of the Time?

EPCOT Three Story Building But No Walls?

 

[lazyboy97o]

I’ve heard nothing to suggest the hotel is back on.

New personal theory is that this is a bid for the coffee table.
Location makes sense, numbers are about right from what I’ve heard, and since it’s effectively a convention center, it would make sense that a hotel contractor would be bidding on it, instead of people usually used for attractions. Just a mix up in the name.

Disney’s attractions have been using big contractors who work on a variety of projects. While I would expect the Table to use a post-tensioned concrete structure and not the long span steel of a show building, with companies like PCL, Balfour Beatty and Whiting Turner have experience in a variety of building types.

 

[havoc315]

These flexes about staying in expensive hotel rooms around the world are honestly making this full-throated defence of Riviera Resort even more puzzling.


I mean, that's what they're going for. But, really, this looks like a standard modern mid-range hotel with some (rather tacky) decorative elements applied:
View attachment 542041

For reference...
View attachment 542042

You're comparing the wrong angle:

I think you're missing what people are criticising about Riviera. It's not that the hotel does not match the standards of a 5-star European hotel. It's that it is very obviously a standard, mid-range hotel with a very thin veneer of theming overlaid to try and convince people they're getting a deluxe experience. Most of us acknowledge that the other deluxes aren't really deluxe hotels in terms of rooms and amenities, but at least they put some effort into the veneer when theming those ones!

I disagree with you. I don't think anybody staying or buying into Riviera thinks they are buying a NY/London/Paris true deluxe hotel.

I think it's quite simple: This is a "Disney deluxe" hotel, with nicer rooms and amenities than most of the other "Disney deluxe" hotels.

It feels like most of the loudest critics of Riviera fall into 2 classes:
1- Those who put transformative theming above all else. For me, Beach Club and Yacht Club are also failures in this category. The winners are Poly, Wilderness Lodge and Animal Kingdom Lodge. But I can certainly understand and agree that Riviera does not have the degree of theming as these top 3 themed resorts. I put Riviera more at the level of Beach Club, Yacht Club, Contemporary, Grand Floridian. I put Bay Lake Tower dead last in theming.
2 -- Those who have never actually been to Riviera, looked at a couple photos of the outside and shrugged that it looks like a Marriott. I'm amazed at the many people who thought they would dislike Riviera UNTIL they visited it.

 

[mjspin]

Try Newport Bay

Oh my goodness, yes. Room number is relatively unhelpful. Instead you need to memorise the room location by number of turns in each direction from the lift, with landmarks such as coffee/ice machine on the way to indicate you are on the right path!

 

[Mike730]

Riviera is the sad McMansion of deluxe resorts. Most of the other deluxe resorts (yes including Crescent Lake) have put WAY more energy into placemaking through architecture. It fails against every other resort in this regard except maybe Saratoga. At Riviera your subconscious is not convinced for any extended period of time that you are in an exotic/foreign place. It always feels like a modern American hotel with "Riviera" decoration, whatever that means. I think this is really the greatest reason so many Disney fans dislike it, whether they realize it or not. The entire thing, in and out, is a gray shoe box with pasted on decoration. Most of the other resorts are designed to BE what they are emulating. You cannot pull decorations off of the Wilderness Lodge, Boardwalk, or Beach Club, and redesign them into the long rumored Venetian resort because their theme is part of the structure, inside and out. Even the Riviera lobby and associated common areas are completely deprived of built-in, structural design. Don't even get me started on the common areas! What common areas??

 

[monothingie]

I’ve heard nothing to suggest the hotel is back on.

New personal theory is that this is a bid for the coffee table.
Location makes sense, numbers are about right from what I’ve heard, and since it’s effectively a convention center, it would make sense that a hotel contractor would be bidding on it, instead of people usually used for attractions. Just a mix up in the name.

Epcot already has a terrible convention center. World Showplace, the bent temporary structure that became permanent. (It does have the largest bathrooms on earth though)

So replace the terrible temporary tent with something new on the other side of the park and free up the space for ??

 

[Phicinfan]

Epcot already has a terrible convention center. World Showplace, the bent temporary structure that became permanent. (It does have the largest bathrooms on earth though)

So replace the terrible temporary tent with something new on the other side of the park and free up the space for ??

Per insiders the tent won't go away, this is additional space for folks to see the evening show and cool off in air conditioning... and such. Oh and get more beer.

 

[monothingie]

Per insiders the tent won't go away, this is additional space for folks to see the evening show and cool off in air conditioning... and such. Oh and get more beer.

The only things I remember it being used for have been corporate events and more recently festival stuff since everything got displaced from future world.

 

[Nunu]

The only things I remember it being used for have been corporate events and more recently festival stuff since everything got displaced from future world.

First time I set foot in there, was for the now defunct DVC Merry Member Mixer.

 

[J4546]

i say get rid of the wsp and put in a new Egypt or India Pavilion

 

[Creathir]

Epcot already has a terrible convention center. World Showplace, the bent temporary structure that became permanent. (It does have the largest bathrooms on earth though)

So replace the terrible temporary tent with something new on the other side of the park and free up the space for ??

One can only hope the Cherry Tree Lane project would make its way back into the realm of possibility, maybe even expanded from the previous incarnation.

 

[GimpYancIent]

i say get rid of the wsp and put in a new Egypt or India Pavilion

What happened to the push for Brazil? A Brazil themed hotel, you can see it, Carnival! it would brighten things up.