The Chit Chat Chit Chat Thread

MOXOMUMD

MOXOMUMD

Well-Known Member
StarWarsGirl95 said:
I think she definitely changes. In the beginning of the movie, she was this sheltered little finishing school girl who is all set to be married to a wealthy man and lead the kind of life her mother led. Meanwhile, she is taught to look down on those who are beneath her. And she's incredibly scared to stand up for herself and basically say, "Hey, this is not what I want." She's so miserable and in such great fear that she tries to commit suicide. Then, enter Jack, who basically says, "This is what your life could be like." She comes to see that there's a lot of prejudice in her family. Her mother wanted to maintain their high class life, but Rose comes to realize that her mother is selfish a prejudice and that there's nothing really wrong with these people, and that they are just different. In many ways, she sees that they are better than the people she's been around her whole life. And in the end, she becomes stronger and less uptight, and definitely more independent. Basically, she goes from being obedient daughter who does as she's told whether or not it's right or fair to her to a strong, independent woman who fights for what she wants and doesn't stand for injustice.

While she always has qualities that always stay the same and some that were within her that she needed to have brought out, she does change because she grows up and becomes stronger. She also learns to develop her own ideals and values. So yes, she does change in the film. :)
Click to expand...
Or......she just fell in love. ;)
 
MOXOMUMD

MOXOMUMD

Well-Known Member
donaldtoo said:
We'll agree to disagree, then.
I saw her from the beginning as someone who wasn't comfortable with her life as it existed, and would have eventually changed, with or without Jack. :)
Click to expand...
That's the way I see it. Rose was seventeen when she met Jack and fell in love with him not the guy she was being forced to marry. Plus Jack was her "first" ;) and you don't forget that. Being that young and taking his name after being rescued gave her a chance to recreate herself. It's always been debated at the end of the movie, did she really die....or was she dreaming? It never says either way.
 
JenniferS

JenniferS

When you're the leader, you don't have to follow.
Okay, I did say "discuss", not discourse; but here you go - Son #1's take on "Did Rose change?"

The question of whether or not Rose "changed" as a person is more complicated than it seems, because in this case "changed" is not tantamount to "developed as a character". Character development refers to a marked shift in a character's motivation or behaviour that has a clear and identifiable catalyst within the narrative. Rose's motivation and behaviour, however, did not undergo a shift so much as simply become externalized. And even then, while Rose seems to romanticize herself after the fact as having been "trapped" and forced to be at all times the picture of elegance, composure and restraint, this is at odds with scenes as early as her first lunch aboard the Titanic, in which she mocks Bruce Ismay and blows smoke in her mother's face. In fact, she has almost no interactions with her mother in which she is not insubordinate or downright rude, which kind of robs "Oh, mother, SHUT UP!" of some of its bite. Still, it's hard to argue that Rose is not repressed by her environment; being an intelligent, perceptive and ambitious woman would do little for her in the 1910s, and her mother outright admits that she's being married off to Cal because it's economically advantageous and that she feels they have no other "cards left to play". In any case, it's clear that deep-down Rose always was the adventurous, career-driven woman she became later in life.

But the fact is, many people have unrealized potential, or dreams and ambitions that are never acted upon or even addressed. Rose was in an arranged marriage that, if she'd gone through with it, surely would've robbed her of the opportunity to fully realize her autonomy. The question of whether not Jack Dawson was the catalyst for her becoming a more assertive person and escaping her fate is an important one. Rose takes to Jack immediately because he lives a carefree live of travel and adventure. More than that, he treats her with respect, expresses interest in her ideas and opinions, and challenges her perception of the world and her role in it. Jack's function within the narrative is to help Rose break her metaphorical chains, and this is difficult to dispute. Saving Jack is the motivator for many of her boldest actions (which are also her most violent actions, but that's another debate), and in their last conversation, he encourages her to live a long, fulfilling life, with or without him. However, that's not where the scene ends. Jack dies, and Rose, seeing the lifeboat that has come to save her rowing away, jumps into the water, swims a short distance, takes a whistle from a corpse and blows it repeatedly to alert the lifeboat of her presence, despite being nearly dead from hypothermia. Before doing this, she physically "lets Jack go", and we are treated to an extended shot of him slowly sinking into the water.

Now, consider for a minute who wrote and directed the movie. James Cameron doesn't have a subtle bone in his body (we've all see Avatar), but chose to begin Rose's most empowering moment with her "letting go" of Jack. For all Jack did for her, saving her live ultimately came down to her and only her. Despite the litany of factors working for and against her, Rose's defining moment came at the one brief point in the narrative in which she was completely and utterly alone. Like many of Cameron's other iconic heroines, Rose found the strength to save herself when she had no other options or allies, and there can be no doubt that she would've found this strength whether or not she'd ever met Jack Dawson.


P.S. - This was all typed on his iPhone and sent to me as a text.
 
JenniferS

JenniferS

When you're the leader, you don't have to follow.
MOXOMUMD said:
That's the way I see it. Rose was seventeen when she met Jack and fell in love with him not the guy she was being forced to marry. Plus Jack was her "first" ;) and you don't forget that. Being that young and taking his name after being rescued gave her a chance to recreate herself. It's always been debated at the end of the movie, did she really die....or was she dreaming? It never says either way.
Click to expand...
Son #1 says that it is heavily implied that Jack was a virgin, but Rose was not.
Even Cal expected Rose to come to him the previous night - hardly the actions of a blushing virgin.
 
Last edited:
MinnieM123

MinnieM123

Premium Member
FutureCEO said:
So I decided to switch this show on. The Royals, that started a couple weeks ago. I curious because, naturally, England, but I would never watch it to begin with. Sleazy but all British cast and shots of London = :hungry::bawling::D:angelic:

What the smileys mean:

!st one - British accents and London scenery
2nd one - I want to live there
3rd one - self explanatory
Last one - I think you can figure that out.
Click to expand...

I've seen maybe 2 episodes of that new show. What I've seen so far, I really enjoy. It's a little hard to get beyond the decision the writers took about casting the queen as a younger, attractive woman (Elizabeth Hurley), and completely changing up her personality as well. Regardless, It all does make for a fun show, and I enjoy the scandalous behavior of the family. I like the filming as well; there does seem to be a quality in the sets, some location shots, the lighting, etc. It's an attractive show.
 
JenniferS

JenniferS

When you're the leader, you don't have to follow.
MOXOMUMD said:
That's the way I see it. Rose was seventeen when she met Jack and fell in love with him not the guy she was being forced to marry. Plus Jack was her "first" ;) and you don't forget that. Being that young and taking his name after being rescued gave her a chance to recreate herself. It's always been debated at the end of the movie, did she really die....or was she dreaming? It never says either way.
Click to expand...
Quoted for a second reason.
JC instructed Gloria Stewart to hold her breath during that final scene, but never definitively said whether or not she was dead.
For the record, both Kate Winslet and Gloria Stewart both assert that they believe that Rose is indeed dead in that final scene.

Me too.
 
MinnieM123

MinnieM123

Premium Member
My sister and I had a delicious lunch today at P. F. Chang's (Boston). Their food was SO good!!!! My sister had their lemon shrimp (I tried some--yum!!!), and I had "combo" pad Thai (mushrooms, shrimp, chicken and some egg mixed in with the peanuts, noodles and sauce--tasty!!). We also had Vietnamese spring rolls with dipping sauce--mmmm . . . loves me some spring rolls!!

Never been there before, but I looked online and they're all over the country. (@donaldtoo , I noticed that there are two of them in Austin, TX, as well as other Texas locations. Have you ever been there?)

I even had a Sangria (which I always thought was Mexican, but anyway it was on the cocktails menu so I tried one). It had some vodka and Merlot and fruit juices. I love fruity things, and it was sweet with a bit of a kick to it . . . and, not being much of a drinker, I was all giggly by the time the meal was over . . . :joyfull: :hilarious: :hilarious:
 
seahawk7

seahawk7

Well-Known Member
StarWarsGirl95 said:
If it had not been for Jack, she might have committed suicide. So...she might not have had a life. Or she would have married anyway and been abused. There are quite a few turns her life could have taken.

@JenniferS Care to weigh in? The discussion: Did Rose actually change in Titanic?
Click to expand...
You know this discussion on Rose's life would have been perfect for the format of Encyclopedia Brown. You know multiple endings and choices.
 
seahawk7

seahawk7

Well-Known Member
JenniferS said:
Okay, I did say "discuss", not discourse; but here you go - Son #1's take on "Did Rose change?"

The question of whether or not Rose "changed" as a person is more complicated than it seems, because in this case "changed" is not tantamount to "developed as a character". Character development refers to a marked shift in a character's motivation or behaviour that has a clear and identifiable catalyst within the narrative. Rose's motivation and behaviour, however, did not undergo a shift so much as simply become externalized. And even then, while Rose seems to romanticize herself after the fact as having been "trapped" and forced to be at all times the picture of elegance, composure and restraint, this is at odds with scenes as early as her first lunch aboard the Titanic, in which she mocks Bruce Ismay and blows smoke in her mother's face. In fact, she has almost no interactions with her mother in which she is not insubordinate or downright rude, which kind of robs "Oh, mother, SHUT UP!" of some of its bite. Still, it's hard to argue that Rose is not repressed by her environment; being an intelligent, perceptive and ambitious woman would do little for her in the 1910s, and her mother outright admits that she's being married off to Cal because it's economically advantageous and that she feels they have no other "cards left to play". In any case, it's clear that deep-down Rose always was the adventurous, career-driven woman she became later in life.

But the fact is, many people have unrealized potential, or dreams and ambitions that are never acted upon or even addressed. Rose was in an arranged marriage that, if she'd gone through with it, surely would've robbed her of the opportunity to fully realize her autonomy. The question of whether not Jack Dawson was the catalyst for her becoming a more assertive person and escaping her fate is an important one. Rose takes to Jack immediately because he lives a carefree live of travel and adventure. More than that, he treats her with respect, expresses interest in her ideas and opinions, and challenges her perception of the world and her role in it. Jack's function within the narrative is to help Rose break her metaphorical chains, and this is difficult to dispute. Saving Jack is the motivator for many of her boldest actions (which are also her most violent actions, but that's another debate), and in their last conversation, he encourages her to live a long, fulfilling life, with or without him. However, that's not where the scene ends. Jack dies, and Rose, seeing the lifeboat that has come to save her rowing away, jumps into the water, swims a short distance, takes a whistle from a corpse and blows it repeatedly to alert the lifeboat of her presence, despite being nearly dead from hypothermia. Before doing this, she physically "lets Jack go", and we are treated to an extended shot of him slowly sinking into the water.

Now, consider for a minute who wrote and directed the movie. James Cameron doesn't have a subtle bone in his body (we've all see Avatar), but chose to begin Rose's most empowering moment with her "letting go" of Jack. For all Jack did for her, saving her live ultimately came down to her and only her. Despite the litany of factors working for and against her, Rose's defining moment came at the one brief point in the narrative in which she was completely and utterly alone. Like many of Cameron's other iconic heroines, Rose found the strength to save herself when she had no other options or allies, and there can be no doubt that she would've found this strength whether or not she'd ever met Jack Dawson.


P.S. - This was all typed on his iPhone and sent to me as a text.
Click to expand...
All this proves is that James Cameron deserves all the credit for Frozen because he envisioned it. Jack is frozen and Rose let's go. Hmmmm.
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom