The Chit Chat Chit Chat Thread

[Goofyernmost]

What is key here is that various options need to be available to high school students, so that they can weigh out the choices for their future. They're still young enough, well after graduation, to change direction (or catch up on certain educational courses, etc.) if they feel they've made a wrong career choice, and want to go in a different direction. (Heck, some people completely change careers in their 50s, and even beyond.) There are a number of high school students who are confident about their career path, whether it's via a college education, or an education in one of the trades.

I didn't really think about it until you brought it up, but, I majored in Business Administration in College. (Associates Degree) Immediately after graduation, (2 days to be exact) I was in the US Air Force. (age 20) They trained me as a Inventory Management Specialist. After 4 years, that included a year long vacation to sunny South East Asia, and a boring last two years, My enlistment came to an end. My first job after the service was as the manager of a Ben Franklin variety store. (age 24)

After two years I completely switched my career field and, over time, became a General Manager in the field of Printing and Publishing. (age 26) Eleven years later I left that and purchased a Residential Care Home. (age 37) We took care of the Mentally Ill, Physically and Mentally Challenged and elderly. Had to learn that business and didn't have a grace period, I owned it, I was responsible for those residents and I had to be running from the first day.

Sold it off 14 years later, and switched careers to Accounting. (age 51) I did work for a School District, and two construction companies. Didn't like that very much so at the (age 54) I switched again to first be a bus driver and then a supervisor with the same transportation company. Then the best part. As soon as I hit 62 and a half I retired. That I didn't need to be retrained for.

The point of all this is that it is never too late to make changes. My problem was that I never found anything that I could say I really enjoyed until my last job in Transportation. Even then I got bored with it after a while. Just my personality, I guess. But, even though I didn't end up rich (probably due to never staying in one place much over a decade), however, I was able to retire comfortably, play golf and spend time with my kids and grandkids. There is no one way to make it in life. Everyone follows their own path. I was never afraid of change so I was able to go from place to place. Each step along the way required a learning curve before I could say that I really new what I was doing. To me that was just a part of the challenge.

 

[ajrwdwgirl]

Went to Walmart and Hobby Lobby so my DD can continue with her crafts. Todays supplies for this wreath.

This is a really awesome wreath. How did you attach the ornaments? Hot glue? What did you use for the belt?

 

[seahawk7]

I guarantee, nobody pushed me anywhere. It was completely my idea. I honestly knew what I wanted to do at 15, and am still doing it at 52. I knew I didn't want to be a doctor, lawyer, accountant, etc. I knew architecture was what I wanted to do. The way I did it doesn't work for everyone, but neither does a college degree always work. I put forth every bit as much effort as anyone that got a 4-5 year college degree. I got my education on the job, in the real world. That's what worked best for me.

That is my experience as well except at age 19. For some reason I really wanted to be a respiratory therapist, I didn't know why but I did. Many people tried to talk me out of it and they did. So I got my education then went back to school for respiratory therapy because it was really what I wanted to do: work with people and help them directly, not cause harm to others by cheating them or misusing them, working longer hours but less days, and not having to buy a wardrobe.

 

[seahawk7]

Ding and Dong. Can't wrap my brain around either of them. My Dad was a contractor. If his crews didn't do what they were hired to do they were gone. Simpler. Our public works people are known to mess with the the summer help when they are relations to the Village people. They generally don't last either.

You knew this was coming.

 

[seahawk7]

86F

But they have crazy, very large bugs.

 

[seahawk7]

Caught up on much of the discussion regarding trade vs "higher education"...

You can't create anything unless you understand it.

I am not sure anyone who has spent 4 years in school without creating much besides responses to assignments understands anything at all.

I do not hold the fact someone has a lambskin with much regard at all. You either know what you are talking about, or you don't. Only the ignorant hide behind certification to justify their existence or their intelligence (and I'm quite sure college is not a reflection of intelligence).

So, to flip this around, have a look at how Germany does things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Germany

I think that is very interesting.

 

[seahawk7]

The simple fact is, not everyone can be the star, not everyone can be the boss, not everyone can do the job of their (at the moment early post-pubescent) dreams, and not everyone wants to.

Why there is the push to have your plumber grossly aware of the nuances of Shakespeare, when all he really wants to do is show up, do his job, go home and spend time with the family, is beyond me. Wouldn't you want him to be the most skilled in his trade, instead of the most worldly?

Or would you rather he be able to tell you about some paper he crammed out on an overnight session of red bull trying to get over a hangover his sophomore year that explained disparity in income between women and men to appease his professor...

One thing education can encourage is critical thinking. I think no matter what a person decides to do, being able to think critically and problem solve is imperative to job and life success.

 

[seahawk7]

Certainly I do advocate college. You can always take a lesser job but you can't always take a better job without the degree. I know my DS would not have even been considered for the position he holds without a 4 year degree nor the position my DD will shortly start.

Exactly. Plus employers can change the job requirements. For example nurses when I work now require a 4 year degree when before it was only the 2 year degree. Education equals options. You might not see the options at first but they are there.

My mom worked as a secretary in our public school system and put herself through school while she worked and took care of her family. My father was very supportive. She continued her education after her bachelor's degree and got two masters: one in Latin American Studies and one in History.

She then decided she wanted to teach ESL (english as a second language). So she had to get a certificate to teach. She took one look at the curriculum that was set up for her students and decided to come up with her own lesson plans. She got a lot of push back until the test scores her students received showed she had revolutionized the program. Now of course she was pushed out by politics because other teachers were feeling threatened and test scores went down.

 

[seahawk7]

What is a "lesser job"? What is the scale that you measure these things with?

I think lesser job meaning requiring less education.

 

[seahawk7]

I love gingerbread men. Store bought ones don't cut it.

Me too. I really like emphasis on the ginger.

 

[JenniferS]

But they have crazy, very large bugs.

And Gators.
Neither of which I saw during my 11-day trip.

Besides, we have black flies up here, which actually take a chunk out of you when they bite.

 

[seahawk7]

Ouch. But generally I agree.
Today's job market is not the same as it was 10 years ago.

I may have shared this before, but I went to University (big diff between universities and colleges up here) on a full scholarship. Four months into it, I realized that my limited course stream would lead into little other than teaching. I did NOT want to become a teacher.
So, I dropped out.

Within a month, I had enrolled in a 5-week college course to obtain my real estate licence.
I was a licenced realtor at the age of 18. I worked partners with my mother on and off for the next three years, before being hired by my current employer. 25+ years later, I regret nothing.

I am strongly encouraging Son #1 to go to College next year, although I have no idea what the heck he'll be when he's done. He's learning towards journalism, which is another dying trade up here.
He is not trade school material however, as he is astonishingly lazy.

Son #2 dropped out of school because he is not a "butt in the school desk" learner. He earned the sum total of zero credits last year, out of a possible eight; despite actually attending school on a regular basis.
He is currently working on his welding tickets, and will be set for life.
Yeah, he'll work hard, in the heat, in the cold; he'll come home filthy, and will never truly have clean fingernails ever again - but he will always have work. Except for the weed thing, I worry far less about him than his older brother.

Different course streams work better than others, depending on the student. For this reason, I am grateful that multiple options exist.

FWIW - Hubby did graduate from college; never worked a day in his chosen career field, and now works for the same company I do, where he is the frickin' "Golden Child". He is actively being headhunted by the competition on a weekly basis. Go figure.

Yeah my daughter wants to be a baker. I told her to get her degree. I advocated for nursing because I work with a lot of nurse who are artists but couldn't make a mortgage payment with what they were making. They work 3 days a week so the rest of their week is spent doing what they love.
My daughter got a job doing transport in the hospital while she goes to college. She makes 11 dollars an hour and she gets to be around the many professions that work in a hospital. She doesn't know what degree to get so I told her to get it in biology so she can build on it.
My advice to my kids is get as much education as you can because it opens up the world to you. As long as they work, they can stay with me to continue their education. I told them: don't get into debt, don't get into a serious relationship, and don't get pregnant until you finish your education.

I want my kids to do what they want to do for a living but I don't want them to settle. Life is long, people change professions within their lifetime. Isn't it better to equip yourself for this while young? And I still support her desire to bake but after she goes to school.

 

[MOXOMUMD]

@MinnieM123 These are Buckeyes. Peanut butter no bake cookie balls dipped in chocolate that look like buckeyes.

 

[seahawk7]

Of course "anyone" can't just walk in and open an architectural firm. Whether you have a degree, or a license, or not, you better know your stuff. But, I've also never wanted to own my own firm. Too complicated and too much overhead. I'm fine just bein' paid to crank out design.
The two guys I mentioned from my old drafting class, that own their own firm, last I heard anyway, retain a licensed architect to stamp/seal their work.
And, of course, a college degree is not gonna' hurt anyone, per se, but, If I had a dollar for every fresh-outta'-college, full of nothin' but theory, Frank Lloyd Wright Jr. I've seen come and go over the years, I'd be a permanent resident of Bora Bora. There's definitely somethin' to be said for real world experience vs. a bunch of theory. It can actually be quite entertaining at times when the 2X4 of what REALLY happens is broken across their face.
Also, design is really an innate thing. Some have it, and some don't. Those that don't can really only be taught so much, and then they pretty much plateau. Just like you can teach some people only so much about painting art, if it's not innate in them, and they progress not much further. I work with so many college graduate architects, and soon to be architects, that couldn't design their way through a wet, generic, Disney Parks napkin on their best day, and most of them will admit it. They are best a producing construction documents and project management. And, if you could see the stress these folks are going through to study for all the various parts of the exam to become an architect, and all the talk of failing portions of the exams, that they probably won't remember most of, it would make you shake.
Our oldest DD also has a friend that said if she knew then what she knew now, she would have gone to the local community college to get her degree in nursing for about a third of the price and half the time, 'cause her coworkers that did were making the same money.
I think it's sad the way vocational education seems to have some kinda' stigma these days. It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

You DD friend might change her mind since the national trend is that all nurses have a bachelor's.

 

[MOXOMUMD]

There ain't no "we", Sunshine.
JenniferS is an indoor kind of girl - November through April.

Anything under 75 is cold to me.

 

[seahawk7]

Times are not changing, not at all.

People are waking up that higher education does not necessarily mean (in and of itself) that you have a clue what you are talking about.

Especially when it comes to the heartbeat of our economy, trades. You know, people who actually produce results, rather than write about them or philosophize.

But the bigger degrees might get the management positions. I agree that it doesn't mean you know more but the degree speaks for itself on the resume. I could be the best disputer in the world but I can't be a lawyer without going to law school and passing the bar.
But you are right that education does not equal higher intelligence.

 

[seahawk7]

@MinnieM123 - Do you want to build a snowman?

Facing East:
View attachment 73798
And West:
View attachment 73799

These are very pretty pictures but I am so glad I live in a place where snow doesn't stick around too long. I need my sunshine. Maybe it has to do with my childhood room being painted bright yellow and my window facing east.

 

[seahawk7]

And Gators.
Neither of which I saw during my 11-day trip.

Besides, we have black flies up here, which actually take a chunk out of you when they bite.

Yeah my brother says the bugs in Alaska in the summer are huge.

 

[Hakunamatata]

What is a "lesser job"? What is the scale that you measure these things with?

That's a job where you less stuff.

 

[FutureCEO]

I think lesser job meaning requiring less education.

Yes. My jobs have been all lesser jobs where my degree has been worthless so far.

P.S = Common Sense is a rare quality nowadays.

PSS - My college wrote me asking for money. I wrote back saying give me a job and I'll think about it. Probably shouldn't have but it was worth it.

PSSS - I didn't know how to do the multi-spoiler thing