The Boat House construction at Disney Springs The Landing

[LuvtheGoof]

When did I suggest putting out a PR for one resturant opening? In fact, if you've actually understood what I've said, its actually JUST THE OPPOSITE of that.

Because the business the actual interesting part of the company to me... not 'What is your favorite menu item in EPCOT' threads. I'm actually in the field of creating and developing products. It's what I do and find interesting.

Sorry my topic is too deep for you.. let me throw out a 'Hey everyone, who is going to rent a amphicar' thread for you to hold you over and redefine what you think of me.

Wow, sorry that I offended you, and then you throw it right back. Your topic too deep for me? Maybe so, as I'm reading all of your posts on this, and still trying to understand what the heck you are talking and complaining about.

So here is the original press release:

Drawing inspiration from Florida’s waterfront towns and natural beauty, Disney Springs will include four outdoor neighborhoods interconnected by a flowing spring and vibrant lakefront. In addition to a new gateway with a signature water tower and grand entry, the destination will feature:

• The Town Center, which offers a sophisticated mix of shopping and dining along with a promenade where guests can relax, refresh and reconnect.

• A colorful and thriving commercial district called The Landing with inspired dining and beautiful waterfront views.

• The family-friendly Marketplace that will continue to delight guests of all ages by combining new experiences, such as an over-the-water pedestrian causeway, along with classic Disney favorites, including an expanded World of Disney store.

• A West Side that provides an exuberant atmosphere with lively entertainment, along with a series of new elevated spaces that provide both shade and an overlook to the activity below.

So what more would you like them to say about it? I am interested in hearing your position, or have you already stated it, and I didn't understand it? Thanks!

Oh, and I'm not interested in the "Favorite menu item at EPCOT" threads either.

 

[Lord_Vader]

Maybe you should think harder about the conversation then... because you're focusing on the trees and missing the forest.

When has Disney ever really focused marketing on DTD other than a few puff pieces and the dog & pony show they did to roll out DS development?

Or simply ask.. why do we need to analyze it to find the answer? Why isn't Disney steering that message? If major components are starting to open... they better have a much better master plan for people they can message to the locals and their tourists if they want to attract the right people.

Same answer as above, we don't need to analyze it, they have stated all along that The Landing was going to be a different district, "inspired dining" and "uinique/upscale" dining. This all tells me it is going to be very high end, expensive and focused on traveling adults and date-night events. I expect they will start advertising through the maps, on-site video marketing and local television advertisements of The Landing area more as additional locations open up, enough to require it if needed. Why would you start wasting advertising a location that is primarily focused on travelers who visit 3-10 days at a time when only one main restaurant (which isn't even open) and a few shops are ready for business?

 

[sshindel]

When did I suggest putting out a PR for one resturant opening? In fact, if you've actually understood what I've said, its actually JUST THE OPPOSITE of that.

True. You did not. You suggested that Disney should have had a well understood and published plan for phased openings, or at least by this point put out enough info on what will be coming to Disney Springs that we could make reasonable assumptions on it's contents.
I disagree that this was needed, but not strongly enough to really argue about it. It would have been nice, yes, because those of us who care about these things would love to really dig into it in detail. %99.99 of guests however I feel wouldn't care in the slightest.

To share a random anecdote that proves nothing whatsoever, my folks were just down in WDW, sent a picture of a beer flight from Raglan Road to me. I asked if it was any less of a mess there with the new parking garage open for business. My mom responded "What garage?". "You know, the huge new parking garage they opened.". She responded "Oh, I didn't notice, we took the bus".

IMO (which of course can be wrong), this is the level of interest that a vast majority of the guests coming to WDW would take in a released plan for what is happening at Downtown Disney. Most would not even click the link to see the story, if they even tracked these things at all.

We'd be having a field day however.

 

[jakeman]

Sorry my topic is too deep for you.. let me throw out a 'Hey everyone, who is going to rent a amphicar' thread for you to hold you over and redefine what you think of me.

Just because a topic is muddy with no end in sight doesn't mean it's deep.

 

[jakeman]

True. You did not. You suggested that Disney should have had a well understood and published plan for phased openings, or at least by this point put out enough info on what will be coming to Disney Springs that we could make reasonable assumptions on it's contents.
I disagree that this was needed, but not strongly enough to really argue about it. It would have been nice, yes, because those of us who care about these things would love to really dig into it in detail. %99.99 of guests however I feel wouldn't care in the slightest.

Other than dates, what haven't they been clear about?

We've got two quote on this page alone with their design intent.

 

[sshindel]

Other than dates, what haven't they been clear about?

We've got two quote on this page alone with their design intent.

Pretty much anything else. We have a vague idea of each area, but the general public really doesn't know anything that is coming to DS. We know a little more, and know some of the restaurants that are coming, but shopping options, further dining options in The Town Center, entertainment, etc. We've really not been given a hint at what to expect in terms of stuff that will be there.

Again, I don't tend to care too much, and am happy to "wait and see" because I know that confirming a bunch of things that may change during construction (stores may add, pull out, go out of business, go to CityWalk instead, etc) that is scheduled to take a couple years. Still, not many examples have been put forth aside from the few that have opened, and those were not really announced either, just kind of quietly opened.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Pretty much anything else. We have a vague idea of each area, but the general public really doesn't know anything that is coming to DS. We know a little more, and know some of the restaurants that are coming, but shopping options, further dining options in The Town Center, entertainment, etc. We've really not been given a hint at what to expect in terms of stuff that will be there.

Again, I don't tend to care too much, and am happy to "wait and see" because I know that confirming a bunch of things that may change during construction (stores may add, pull out, go out of business, go to CityWalk instead, etc) that is scheduled to take a couple years. Still, not many examples have been put forth aside from the few that have opened, and those were not really announced either, just kind of quietly opened.

I don't think most of the other areas have been fully fleshed out with particular dining and merchandise options. Time will tell!

 

[jakeman]

Pretty much anything else. We have a vague idea of each area, but the general public really doesn't know anything that is coming to DS. We know a little more, and know some of the restaurants that are coming, but shopping options, further dining options in The Town Center, entertainment, etc. We've really not been given a hint at what to expect in terms of stuff that will be there.

Again, I don't tend to care too much, and am happy to "wait and see" because I know that confirming a bunch of things that may change during construction (stores may add, pull out, go out of business, go to CityWalk instead, etc) that is scheduled to take a couple years. Still, not many examples have been put forth aside from the few that have opened, and those were not really announced either, just kind of quietly opened.

To be honest, I wouldn't want to draw too many people to that center area right now in it's current state.

However, what are we expecting beyond what they normally do? Most of the shops have gotten a blurb on the Parks Blog. The only thing I can think of that's gotten substantially more is the Co-op.

 

[sshindel]

To be honest, I wouldn't want to draw too many people to that center area right now in it's current state.

However, what are we expecting beyond what they normally do? Most of the shops have gotten a blurb on the Parks Blog. The only thing I can think of that's gotten substantially more is the Co-op.

That's the thing. I'm not expecting anything, nor do I think that Disney needs to do so. We had a field day on them when they sent out a press release on the addition of benches to Fantasmic. Since then, they have started constructing actual ride buildings in DAK, torn down the BAH, shuttered a bunch of other stuff at DHS, all without mentioning a thing.
I can't imagine they'd put out a huge announcement on this area while so much is likely in flux.
Maybe there will be info at D23, maybe there wont. Time will tell.

 

[jakeman]

That's the thing. I'm not expecting anything, nor do I think that Disney needs to do so. We had a field day on them when they sent out a press release on the addition of benches to Fantasmic. Since then, they have started constructing actual ride buildings in DAK, torn down the BAH, shuttered a bunch of other stuff at DHS, all without mentioning a thing.
I can't imagine they'd put out a huge announcement on this area while so much is likely in flux.
Maybe there will be info at D23, maybe there wont. Time will tell.

Apologies I didn't mean to imply that you were expecting anything.

It seems like they are operating as business as usual as of recently.

Just seems like @flynnibus is going out of his way to make a convoluted point that really has no bearing on the end product of the area.

 

[flynnibus]

So what more would you like them to say about it? I am interested in hearing your position, or have you already stated it, and I didn't understand it? Thanks!

You can with a straight face read that list as a customer and think 'wow, I really want to go there'? That PR described some of the settings, and the only other thing it really has at all for any meat is 'shopping, dining, entertainment' and highlighting the proper names for areas. But that is only the PR - I don't expect it to be the real hook... PRs are about an announcement - not the actual marketing efforts.

This is the same company that puts out how many hours of infomercials on their TV stations, radio, advertising, on-property TV shows, web, etc. This is the company that makes how many videos and interviews about attraction details, or hotel details, etc... and the ammo you have on Disney Springs is... a one page PR? Do you not see the huge gap here? Come on... the developer building the latest strip mall in your town has got more PR and media out there promoting why their development is what YOU want to be visiting. Disney made a CGI fly-through of the hub - a pure utility focused project - just so you'd be comfortable with the outcome and appease all the concern about the in park disruptions and what the final outcome would look like. That's not even something Disney needs to PROMOTE to be successful... it's freaking walkways and it was more about controlling the message and public sentiment about the project.

Yet here, we have a commercial venture, something that only succeeds by PULLING IN THE MONEY. Something that at least from our seats... is trying to redefine the image and customer base for this existing area. Yet... Disney has done what for the target customer bases to build the anticipation, get people interested, create that draw that the tenants will need to survive..?

Let's face reality - Disney Spring's announcement was TWO YEARS AGO. It's not like there hasn't been amble time to flush out what the message and delivery channels should be.

I totally get the project isn't near done - but what marketing group waits till their real estate development is DONE before they start shaping the message, creating demand, and creating excitement for their product?

Seriously.. my local subway train stop has got more media, more content, and more messaging out there than Disney Springs does.

There has been a lot of back and forth here in DS threads... is Disney trying to target the locals? Or the international buyers looking for cheap US prices? What are the draws they are going to showcase? What is the retail makeup really going to be centered around? Are we Cartier or are we Hot Tropic?

It would be one thing if I were thinking there is going to be this grand reveal.. and it's just not the time yet. But the way they've been trickling things out without much structure around the grander message... I'm really starting to think there is none of at all. We'll just get things opened as they come and they expect customers will just appear... because it's Disney you know.

 

[flynnibus]

True. You did not. You suggested that Disney should have had a well understood and published plan for phased openings, or at least by this point put out enough info on what will be coming to Disney Springs that we could make reasonable assumptions on it's contents.

Not quite.. you guys are too focused on the individual trees. Achieving these things are not just 'tell me what stores are going to be there' - or 'when it will be open'. My point is, what is the plan for marketing, image, and draw? What is Disney doing to shape the message that this isn't simply 'DTD with some new shops and fascades'. If they are really dramatically changing the game of the place... where is the effort and content to create that NEW image and demand?

I honestly think most people here just think most stuff happens organically or by chance... and are oblivious to the amount of energy and effort put into controlling the image and perception of things. If you want a new image or public perception... you get it by first PUSHING what you want it to be. Where is the new image and thinking Disney wants people to think of when they hear 'Disney Springs' or what hooks they want people to think 'Disney Springs' when they pop-up in their life?

IMO (which of course can be wrong), this is the level of interest that a vast majority of the guests coming to WDW would take in a released plan for what is happening at Downtown Disney. Most would not even click the link to see the story, if they even tracked these things at all.

We'd be having a field day however.

I agree with you - they wouldn't care... but that's because you'd be promoting the wrong thing. Marketing isn't just 'listing your actual assets' - it's about creating awareness, draw, and excitement for your product.

You don't advertise a movie by showing the full plot and all the scenes. You don't advertise a new grocery store by listing everything you sell.

There are already lots of shopping, dining, and entertainment areas in the greater Orlando area. Disney should be creating and promoting the new image, the draws, and what the takeaways they want people to walk away with when they hear/see 'Disney Springs'

To date... that hasn't happened... and the product is already out on the market.

 

[sshindel]

Not quite.. you guys are too focused on the individual trees. Achieving these things are not just 'tell me what stores are going to be there' - or 'when it will be open'. My point is, what is the plan for marketing, image, and draw? What is Disney doing to shape the message that this isn't simply 'DTD with some new shops and fascades'. If they are really dramatically changing the game of the place... where is the effort and content to create that NEW image and demand?

I honestly think most people here just think most stuff happens organically or by chance... and are oblivious to the amount of energy and effort put into controlling the image and perception of things. If you want a new image or public perception... you get it by first PUSHING what you want it to be. Where is the new image and thinking Disney wants people to think of when they hear 'Disney Springs' or what hooks they want people to think 'Disney Springs' when they pop-up in their life?



I agree with you - they wouldn't care... but that's because you'd be promoting the wrong thing. Marketing isn't just 'listing your actual assets' - it's about creating awareness, draw, and excitement for your product.

You don't advertise a movie by showing the full plot and all the scenes. You don't advertise a new grocery store by listing everything you sell.

There are already lots of shopping, dining, and entertainment areas in the greater Orlando area. Disney should be creating and promoting the new image, the draws, and what the takeaways they want people to walk away with when they hear/see 'Disney Springs'

To date... that hasn't happened... and the product is already out on the market.

Understood. IMO, they are not to the point where marketing the experience needs more than what they released in their press statements and concept art... yet.
I think the people that they need to market to are prospective tenants. I'd bet they have a heck of a marketing package built for them.
For what they have now, they've released enough to set the stage that they need to set at this point in the project.

 

[Next Big Thing]

The other high end Steakhouse coming to the former Pleasure Island area.

Well the Boathouse is more of a seafood restaurant that serves high quality steaks from Gibson's than the other way around.

 

[flyerjab]

What I have been considering is that maybe (and I saw someone mention this above) they don't want to be advertising yet for an area of the greater WDW resort that looks like someone dropped a bomb on it and they are rebuilding. Also, with the resorts alone, WDW already has a captive audience for DTD/DS. It wouldn't surprise me that after more of Town Center is completed - along with a fully fleshed-0ut The Landing - that you start to see new advertisements for this on the buses, at the resort bus stops, maybe even the resorts themselves. Obviously with the greater Orlando area that is comprised of locals and those visiting but staying off site, there might be commercials on the local networks promoting this. I just don't expect them to do a lot at this point as they are not even halfway finished with the transformation.

What is interesting to note is that the larger discussion here between @flynnibus and @sshindel begs the question, how much does WDW actually advertise anything? I live in PA, and the only channel I can recall seeing any WDW commercials is the Disney Channel or Disney XD. From a PR perspective, I actually do expect to see more advertisements for DAK in the latter stages of next year as most of the new offerings - with the exception of Pandora - will be completed. And they could certainly start advertising for it 4Q 2016, which is really fiscal 1Q 2016. I would be amazed though if I see anything coordinated concerning The Boathouse or The Hangar or STK, etc. at least not now. I still think it is too early in the transformation period. And besides, as mentioned previously, the internet already has several sources for this particular establishment, along with some of the other new eateries that are coming on line soon.

 

[GoofGoof]

Yeah, and it's not just about the menus at one place - its more about what this whole property is trying to be. If it's vague or just broken... you fail to maximize your potential audience and you risk alienating those that do show up.

I don't understand why people are being so obtuse when it comes to the concepts of development and identity.

I don't think all of Disney Springs has an identity problem. I really do just think it's an issue with this restaurant. Because it has the cool looking boats and is quite prominent it will attract a lot of attention. I think people will be a little surprised (and judging on a few people here, disappointed) that it's really a high end steakhouse. It's not a big deal and I think once the reputation of the restaurant itself is established some of the confusion will be gone.

I don't think Disney Springs in general has an identity crisis. The Marketplace and Westside will be mostly unchanged and offer plenty of Disney focused shopping and plenty of restaurants that are both family friendly and moderately priced (at least by Disney standards). The Town Center area seems like it will mostly focus on 3rd party vendor shopping. It will be geared towards both tourists (especially foreign ones) and locals. Until it's further along it will be hard to judge. The Landing looks like it's going to be a section of high-end restaurants with some adult entertainment options focused more on adults traveling without kids (especially conventions) and locals. Again, these are just where the focus is. The Landing will not exclude tourists or families just like the Marketplace doesn't exclude locals or convention travelers. There will be plenty of kids at the Boathouse.

I don't see the issue with having several "areas" that focus on different guest demographics. The model worked well with DTD having the Marketplace serving a different demographic than the clubs and PI. I think it's less confusing to group these things together in "lands" or "areas" as opposed to just mixing them all together.

 

[Jon81uk]

I have read pages and pages of this and still don't understand what the fuss is.
DTD only has one upscale restaurant, upstairs at Wolfgang Puck, plus a few slightly high like Paradiso & Fulton's. There will still be Rainforest, T-Rex & regular Wolfgang Puck for family dining or Bongo's or Raglan Road or Splitsville. Plus also Wolfgang Express and Earl of Sandwich for quick service. Adding three new upscale restaurants on The Landing doesn't mean the family restaurants of the Marketplace will close.

As others have quoted it is already announced that Marketplace will remain family friendly dining and mainly Disney shopping and the Westside will still be an mix of venues, mainly around entertainment. The Town Center will be upscale third party shopping and the Landing upscale dining and adult drinking venues, but if that isn't to your taste then just stick to the marketplace and Westside.

 

[jakeman]

I have read pages and pages of this and still don't understand what the fuss is.

It's okay, neither do the folks that are making the fuss.

 

[RayTheFirefly]

What is interesting to note is that the larger discussion here between @flynnibus and @sshindel begs the question, how much does WDW actually advertise anything? I live in PA, and the only channel I can recall seeing any WDW commercials is the Disney Channel or Disney XD. From a PR perspective, I actually do expect to see more advertisements for DAK in the latter stages of next year as most of the new offerings - with the exception of Pandora - will be completed. And they could certainly start advertising for it 4Q 2016, which is really fiscal 1Q 2016. I would be amazed though if I see anything coordinated concerning The Boathouse or The Hangar or STK, etc. at least not now. I still think it is too early in the transformation period. And besides, as mentioned previously, the internet already has several sources for this particular establishment, along with some of the other new eateries that are coming on line soon.

I live in Louisiana, and I see ads for WDW on TV frequently. That's probably because we are so close, though. The Panhandle and Central Florida are huge destinations for folks from Louisiana because it's so easily accessible.

I think companies are trending toward advertising more online these days. I know sites like Yahoo always have articles about new developments at WDW (which are clearly PR stunts by Disney and not actual news articles).

 

[Jon81uk]

I live in Louisiana, and I see ads for WDW on TV frequently. That's probably because we are so close, though. The Panhandle and Central Florida are huge destinations for folks from Louisiana because it's so easily accessible.

I think companies are trending toward advertising more online these days. I know sites like Yahoo always have articles about new developments at WDW (which are clearly PR stunts by Disney and not actual news articles).

Indeed, why pay to advertise online when Yahoo or similar will rewrite your press release into a "news" article for free!