The Boat House construction at Disney Springs The Landing

articos

Well-Known Member
There will be a good mix of various price points when all is done. STK will be in the same realm as The Boathouse's price points as a high end restaurant. In NYC and LA, STK is a celeb magnet/high profile restaurant. The Miami and Vegas outposts are a bit more relaxed. Expect the DD location to suit the location and clientele more, so it should be more suited to a family friendly, more casual extension of the brand, although still high end. Mori will be high-end, but more accessible pricewise since sushi is more a la carte. If you want to spend, you can. If you want to go lighter, you don't have to spend $60 on one dish. Edison's location should be a little more moderately priced, between moderate and high end. There are still other locations to be announced, that will fill in the gaps in price points. And don't forget, it's Disney - if something isn't popular, it will be replaced with something that will work better.
 

flyerjab

Well-Known Member
There will be a good mix of various price points when all is done. STK will be in the same realm as The Boathouse's price points as a high end restaurant. In NYC and LA, STK is a celeb magnet/high profile restaurant. The Miami and Vegas outposts are a bit more relaxed. Expect the DD location to suit the location and clientele more, so it should be more suited to a family friendly, more casual extension of the brand, although still high end. Mori will be high-end, but more accessible pricewise since sushi is more a la carte. If you want to spend, you can. If you want to go lighter, you don't have to spend $60 on one dish. Edison's location should be a little more moderately priced, between moderate and high end. There are still other locations to be announced, that will fill in the gaps in price points. And don't forget, it's Disney - if something isn't popular, it will be replaced with something that will work better.

Thanks for some clarification regarding the range of offerings for DS. The one I have been anxiously awaiting is when the group that owns the Edison in California announces what they will be opening here. I have visited the website for the Edison and that establishment looks great. Isn't that where imagineers would go and hang out at times?

I'm a curious as to if it will be the same of an entirely different concept in Orlando.
 

LuvtheGoof

Grill Master
Premium Member
saw a link today showing the prices of food at boathouse, and WOW.. OUTRAGEOUS!!!

I mean rainforest and dino aren't anywhere close to cheap, but seemed like boathouse was way more.

saw people commenting about $23 for a SIDE of asparagous, a fruit cup is $10, french fries as a SIDE was like $7

This isn't the article i saw earlier, but thought some might wanna read

Disney World's New Restaurant, The Boathouse, Will Serve a $115 Steak

There will also be $17 sides of mac and cheese and $24 crab cakes

definitely not a place to take the kids

found the original article i saw this morning
First Look! Menus and Food Photos for The Boathouse Restaurant Opening Soon at Disney World

with these crazy prices i kinda hope it goes out of business just as fast as it opens, just because its new and shinny doesn't mean it has to be outrageous.
Hmm, not outrageous at all. Actually in-line with other high end steak and seafood places. o_O
 

LuvtheGoof

Grill Master
Premium Member
just shut up, people like you need to go run away to the bottom of the ocean,

disney was suppose to be for everyone, not just the elite

the people i feel bad for are families with kids that see the cool cars and wanna go for a ride, but unfortunately as disney is moving to the outrageous demographic, better shield your kids eyes or take out a second mortgage before the trip

for the record i've eaten at ruth chris and other high end steakhouses, and while theres nothing wrong with them

I just dont think they are a good fit for downtown disney
Umm, sorry, but Ruth's Chris isn't a high-end steakhouse. It is above an Outback, but no where near high end. You really need to reset your expectations.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
You don't answer my point about the shopping mall. A guest going to Old Navy isn't going to be confused if he has to walk by an Orange Julius to get there. He "gets" what an Old Navy is and he also knows that facilities in which you find Old Navy often includes un-Old-Navy-ish experiences.

Malls are not universal - tho most serve a diverse range. But that very expectation of what they will have is what I am talking about. None of this is about a SINGULARITY or only ONE customer type- be it either extreme... its about an identity and profile they are trying to promote to attract both their tenants and their customers for mutual success.

They don't get spiteful if it's a free-to-play experience. Disney Springs doesn't cost you anything to walk around, so there doesn't need to be this understandable "vision".

Yes they do - you don't just assume people will come to your place simply because you exist. Especially a place like DS which apparently wants to cater to the non-tourists too. You have to establish an identity that will draw the type of clients you are seeking.. and match that with the tenants you hope to attract. Yes, some examples are just the melting pot of middle america... but that is not the ONLY model, and when you start doing mashups, you tend to fail.

The mall you outline is very typical suburb... they will aim for middle class and offer both pockets of niche and mainstream stuff. These places have an identity.. and they largely stick to them. Are you likely to find the dollar store, or a payday loans place there? Or how about all designer shops? No, they don't fit the tigher, more upscale model most modern malls are trying to promote themselves as.

Your example of a mall is not the only model out there - Contrast for instance with a mall say like the type of shops you'll find at the Ventian Canal Shops in Vegas. You're not going to find JCPenny there.. but instead barney's. You're not going to find Borders Books, but instead a rare book store. People don't get upset walking through that they couldn't find their $10 Old Navy jeans because the place has a pretty well understood identity and image of what kind of retail and audience its catering to.

If you want a less extreme example... Take Tysons Corner 1 and 2 (Or Tysons Corner Center and Tysons Galleria their current names). These are massive suburb malls (over 420 stores between them) and they are literally right across the street from each other. Galleria differentiates itself by trying to be more upscale in its setting and the types of shops it has. You won't find your Old Navy jeans here, inbetween the Louis V shop, or Porsche Design, etc. But these identities are well understood by customers and they know... if you are seeking Macy's level you goto Tyson's Corner... if you want Cartier... you goto Galleria.

Mall does not mean 'anything goes' - and success means establishing a standard of quality and experience your guests can relate to and come to expect when they visit. Fail to make that well known, you may miss your audience. Mislead, confuse, or just be scatterbrain, and you lose customers through frustration and you fail to maximize your draw.

There are very few people who are visiting Disney Springs without knowing why they're visiting Disney Springs.

I couldn't disagree more. You're missing the first big point about 'they chose DS in the first place vs alternatives'.. let alone the entire notion of shopping for entertainment.. or simply 'lets get some food'. Stop thinking ADRs and scheduled experiences and get back to the real world.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
To your point and @flynnibus too I think the average guest might be confused at first and then disappointed when they see the menus.

Yeah, and it's not just about the menus at one place - its more about what this whole property is trying to be. If it's vague or just broken... you fail to maximize your potential audience and you risk alienating those that do show up.

I don't understand why people are being so obtuse when it comes to the concepts of development and identity.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I disagree. I think he has a valid point.

What was that? I didn't follow this post. Can you explain?

Because the concern isn't as much about if one resturant or store is expensive... or if it doesn't match what Disney has done elsewhere. It's

- What is the identity and demographic really for this development? (and the follow-ons, does the answer really match the base you are drawing from)
- Will they actually stick to the concept or be a mashup?
- Is the identity Disney projecting with these recent changes in business models and products diverting from what Disney has built itself upon?

I said it in the other post 'malls are not universal' - even though we all understand the idea of appealing to a RANGE of clients. But RANGE doesn't mean you put Cartier next to Payday loans - and no I'm not talking about THEME at all - I'm talking about retail development.

I don't think Disney has good a good job at all in projecting to the public what Disney Springs really will be in terms of what kind of experience and products people can expect to find there.
 

sshindel

The Epcot Manifesto
I don't think Disney has good a good job at all in projecting to the public what Disney Springs really will be in terms of what kind of experience and products people can expect to find there.
I'll agree with this, because IMO they haven't really done any talking about what types of experiences and products it will have. They just kind of came out and said they were doing the expansion and it would have new retail and dining.

Hold please, let me check back. Here's from Tom Staggs on the day the expansion was announced:
Our fundamental goal is to create a welcoming, comfortable space where families can enjoy time together and instantaneously feel right at home. We want to give them opportunities to relax, to be entertained, to wander in and out of unique and distinctive shops or enjoy a world-class dining experience.

(emphasis in red is mine)
One could argue by referring to "a world-class dining experience" that the expectation was set that there might be some high-end dining establishments added

The official press release basically just said this:
  • The Town Center, which offers a sophisticated mix of shopping and dining along with a promenade where guests can relax, refresh and reconnect.
  • A colorful and thriving commercial district called The Landing with inspired dining and beautiful waterfront views.
  • The family-friendly Marketplace that will continue to delight guests of all ages by combining new experiences, such as an over-the-water pedestrian causeway, along with classic Disney favorites, including an expanded World of Disney store.
  • A West Side that provides an exuberant atmosphere with lively entertainment, along with a series of new elevated spaces that provide both shade and an overlook to the activity below.
That is about all they've really said about the expansion to the public. Only us Disney Geeks that parse every press release for details have the slightest idea what is going on there.

So there is some danger I guess that by opening The Boathouse first, the guests that walk by it and have sticker shock might have an interesting opinion on Disney Springs. As more establishments open, that opinion will either fade or be solidified if they keep opening high-end dining options. In the long term though, once the entire development is open and has lived as it's intended full-scale "experience", that will be the story that is told and understood about Disney Springs as a location.
 

Lord_Vader

Join me, together we can rule the galaxy.
What I find truly amusing is the constant banter going on about WDW being slowly and steadily turning into a giant Wal-Mart by providing the same thing over and over again with little to no unique experiences or offerings.

Here we have a very unique restaurant offering with arguably the most unique private guided watercraft tour in North America and people still want to complain whether it be too expensive or not in their vision of DS/DTD. Anytime something is unique, it is not a mass-produced item, it will cost more. The more unique/rare the more expensive it generally is, anyone that thought they were going to get unique fine-dining with waterfront views in a highly themed restaurant in DS/DTD for Red Lobster prices needs to check their expectations.

I applaud The Landing plan, one of the reasons we rarely if ever at in DTD (except EoS) was the table-service locations were just okay. We enjoyed Paradisio, Bongo's and EoS for what they are but when we wanted upscale we left for Jiko, Yaghtsman or Shula's if we were staying on property but we left DTD. I imagine the goal of this entire expansion is to attract more guests who leave the property for other unique offerings while also trying to attract locals to stay and play at DS not drive them away because a few of the restaurants are too expensive. It has been made clear from the start of this project they were going upscale, raising the bar and the new offerings are reinforcing that from Art of Shaving, Sound Lion and now The Boathouse.

I think they have been quite clear what their intent is, if you don't see it you are either ignoring the writing on the wall or simply choosing to believe otherwise.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I'll agree with this, because IMO they haven't really done any talking about what types of experiences and products it will have. They just kind of came out and said they were doing the expansion and it would have new retail and dining.

Yes... many of us have oogled over the physical spaces and art style of the place... but glossing over fully the 'wt f is it' problem :) Is that due to their unwillingness (or inability) to promote the future tenants

Hold please, let me check back. Here's from Tom Staggs on the day the expansion was announced:


(emphasis in red is mine)
One could argue by referring to "a world-class dining experience" that the expectation was set that there might be some high-end dining establishments added

But isn't this really the same type of verbage they use for all fluffing PR? 'unique' 'attractive' 'upscale', etc.

So there is some danger I guess that by opening The Boathouse first, the guests that walk by it and have sticker shock might have an interesting opinion on Disney Springs. As more establishments open, that opinion will either fade or be solidified if they keep opening high-end dining options. In the long term though, once the entire development is open and has lived as it's intended full-scale "experience", that will be the story that is told and understood about Disney Springs as a location.

Or to put it another way... you see this girl you really are interested in.. but she's mysterious and you can't really tell if she's a mate you could live with... but if you wait, and observe her for her entire life and wait until she fully matures and stops growing.. THEN you will actually know what she's like and if you will like it. Problem is, by that time its too late, you've missed most of your opportunity and you're both gonna die soon :)

Remember in earlier threads people talked about 'fatigue' with openings and just when and how would Disney promote new openings? Would they do areas, one by one, etc. This is tied into that... keep it very simple... 'the first impression is the most important'. How many openings or cycles do you think people will dedicate their time or capacity to before they've solidified their opinion of what the place will be?

Unless Disney does a better job of defining what people should be looking forward to - they will lose their ability to readily shape opinions.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
What I find truly amusing is the constant banter going on about WDW being slowly and steadily turning into a giant Wal-Mart by providing the same thing over and over again with little to no unique experiences or offerings.

Here we have a very unique restaurant offering with arguably the most unique private guided watercraft tour in North America and people still want to complain whether it be too expensive or not in their vision of DS/DTD.

Maybe you should think harder about the conversation then... because you're focusing on the trees and missing the forest.

I imagine the goal of this entire expansion is to attract more guests who leave the property for other unique offerings while also trying to attract locals to stay and play at DS not drive them away because a few of the restaurants are too expensive. It has been made clear from the start of this project they were going upscale, raising the bar and the new offerings are reinforcing that from Art of Shaving, Sound Lion and now The Boathouse.

I think they have been quite clear what their intent is, if you don't see it you are either ignoring the writing on the wall or simply choosing to believe otherwise.

Or simply ask.. why do we need to analyze it to find the answer? Why isn't Disney steering that message? If major components are starting to open... they better have a much better master plan for people they can message to the locals and their tourists if they want to attract the right people.
 

sshindel

The Epcot Manifesto
But isn't this really the same type of verbage they use for all fluffing PR? 'unique' 'attractive' 'upscale', etc.
This is true. It's the issue with lots of press releases. You'll never read one that says they're opening a moderately ok dining establishment.
There is, however, a difference between Upscale and World-Class, though I won't say Disney is always right when they call something either.


Or to put it another way... you see this girl you really are interested in.. but she's mysterious and you can't really tell if she's a mate you could live with... but if you wait, and observe her for her entire life and wait until she fully matures and stops growing.. THEN you will actually know what she's like and if you will like it. Problem is, by that time its too late, you've missed most of your opportunity and you're both gonna die soon :)
(note, I nearly made a pretty dark joke here and decided that discretion was a better idea)

Except that this is not a person, and I do not have to worry that someone else will take her, or that I will die before I have an opinion about it.
It's a shopping mall with an opening date in the next couple of years, and very obviously still under massive construction. If someone makes a snap decision that is unchangeable based on the opening of one restaurant, they are as you say, not seeing the forest for the trees.

Remember in earlier threads people talked about 'fatigue' with openings and just when and how would Disney promote new openings? Would they do areas, one by one, etc. This is tied into that... keep it very simple... 'the first impression is the most important'. How many openings or cycles do you think people will dedicate their time or capacity to before they've solidified their opinion of what the place will be?

Unless Disney does a better job of defining what people should be looking forward to - they will lose their ability to readily shape opinions.
As far as I'm aware, Disney is not announcing the opening of these places, or making a big deal about them. They just open them, maybe put out a post on the DPB. I don't know how one can have announcement fatigue (or blame Disney) when the only announcements are coming from websites like this fine one that are not related to Disney in any way.
Construction on this was likely limited by many factors, what was ready to be worked on, what could be completed first, what had to be completed before something else could start, etc. They likely did not have the luxury of deciding to construct an array of different dining establishments at the same time, for fear that they were somehow sending the wrong message because they decided to open a high-end restaurant first.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
There is, however, a difference between Upscale and World-Class, though I won't say Disney is always right when they call something either.

That's kind of what I was getting at.. what company doesn't boast? :) "worlds best burger" etc :)

Except that this is not a person, and I do not have to worry that someone else will take her, or that I will die before I have an opinion about it.
It's a shopping mall with an opening date in the next couple of years, and very obviously still under massive construction. If someone makes a snap decision that is unchangeable based on the opening of one restaurant, they are as you say, not seeing the forest for the trees.

The point of the story was... you can't really sit back and wait until EVERYTHING is known or complete before you make a decision to do something. You had said something to the effect of 'once everything is done, it will be more understood' - this isn't a theme park attraction held back behind fences. These are retail operations that are trying to function daily. Customers or potential customers are not held at bay until the whole project is done. People will be forming opinions and thoughts as the whole thing is still developing. It's on Disney to ensure people see the bigger picture, and not just what is immediately apparent.

As far as I'm aware, Disney is not announcing the opening of these places, or making a big deal about them. They just open them, maybe put out a post on the DPB. I don't know how one can have announcement fatigue (or blame Disney) when the only announcements are coming from websites like this fine one that are not related to Disney in any way.

You don't have a marketing plan that solely includes hoping other people make noise for you.. and retail needs awareness to draw in clients. All this points back to 'ok disney.. whats the plan?' - because up till now there seems to be none.. and things are starting to happen.

The point about fatigue was that you can't simply just keep doing the same 'the boathouse is now open!' splash 30-50 times for each location.. so you really need to have a more cohesive plan than simply saying "announce as they open". So when people say "they don't need to do something" - oh yes they do... and it needs to be better thought out than taking it one place at a time.
 

LuvtheGoof

Grill Master
Premium Member
What I find truly amusing is the constant banter going on about WDW being slowly and steadily turning into a giant Wal-Mart by providing the same thing over and over again with little to no unique experiences or offerings.

Here we have a very unique restaurant offering with arguably the most unique private guided watercraft tour in North America and people still want to complain whether it be too expensive or not in their vision of DS/DTD. Anytime something is unique, it is not a mass-produced item, it will cost more. The more unique/rare the more expensive it generally is, anyone that thought they were going to get unique fine-dining with waterfront views in a highly themed restaurant in DS/DTD for Red Lobster prices needs to check their expectations.

I applaud The Landing plan, one of the reasons we rarely if ever at in DTD (except EoS) was the table-service locations were just okay. We enjoyed Paradisio, Bongo's and EoS for what they are but when we wanted upscale we left for Jiko, Yaghtsman or Shula's if we were staying on property but we left DTD. I imagine the goal of this entire expansion is to attract more guests who leave the property for other unique offerings while also trying to attract locals to stay and play at DS not drive them away because a few of the restaurants are too expensive. It has been made clear from the start of this project they were going upscale, raising the bar and the new offerings are reinforcing that from Art of Shaving, Sound Lion and now The Boathouse.

I think they have been quite clear what their intent is, if you don't see it you are either ignoring the writing on the wall or simply choosing to believe otherwise.

I agree 100%.

Maybe you should think harder about the conversation then... because you're focusing on the trees and missing the forest.

Or simply ask.. why do we need to analyze it to find the answer? Why isn't Disney steering that message? If major components are starting to open... they better have a much better master plan for people they can message to the locals and their tourists if they want to attract the right people.

I don't know what you are focusing on flynnibus, because it seems that every post of yours is negative towards every single project being worked on at WDW. Why does Disney have to put out a press release for one restaurant opening? Who is going to read it? I really don't think that one restaurant is a "major" component of one area anyway.

Why do you feel the need to analyze everything as well? They have already stated multiple times that the Landing area will have upscale and fine dining. A quick check of the Downtown Disney page on the WDW web site shows the 3 new restaurants coming in 2015 as all being Fine/Signature Dining, with commensurate price tags. A quick search on the WDW Blog shows quite a few references to the Boathouse restaurant. How many more do you need? What exactly is left to analyze?
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I don't know what you are focusing on flynnibus, because it seems that every post of yours is negative towards every single project being worked on at WDW. Why does Disney have to put out a press release for one restaurant opening? Who is going to read it? I really don't think that one restaurant is a "major" component of one area anyway.

When did I suggest putting out a PR for one resturant opening? In fact, if you've actually understood what I've said, its actually JUST THE OPPOSITE of that.

Why do you feel the need to analyze everything as well?

Because the business the actual interesting part of the company to me... not 'What is your favorite menu item in EPCOT' threads. I'm actually in the field of creating and developing products. It's what I do and find interesting.

Sorry my topic is too deep for you.. let me throw out a 'Hey everyone, who is going to rent a amphicar' thread for you to hold you over and redefine what you think of me.
 

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