The Boat House construction at Disney Springs The Landing

[GoofGoof]

So what you highlight is one of Disney's key problems... they are failing to create an identity that people can quickly relate to and differentiate the products. Is The Landing a luxury high end place, or supposed to be on World of Disney level? Is Disney Springs a boutique or outlet shopping experience?

What is the identity Disney is really aiming for with these projects? Who is their demo they are targeting? Is it narrow or 'everyone' focused?

Why are these simple business model questions so ambiguous?

When Disney put V&A's in the Grand Floridian... it is clear the target audience matches the setting and the environment and targets they are trying to set. Just what is Disney Springs??

Fair points, but give it time to reveal itself. My thoughts are first the menu will dictate that this restaurant is more high end (especially the prices). Second will be DDP or more importantly lack of it. If they establish the Landing as a more adult oriented sub-section of Disney Springs with high end, fancy restaurants it will have an identity. There's still room for the World of Disney and RFC at Disney Springs just like there was room for them when PI was full of nightclubs.

 

[GoofGoof]

If you really think this is one extreme or the other.. and can't actually follow the posts - please don't reply.

I disagree. I think he has a valid point.

 

[mm121]

1. Schussler Creative owns the boathouse. not Disney. Disney has zip to do with their pricing structure.

2. What makes you think Walt built DL to be accessible to all? Was everything free there?

no everything wasn't free, but it also wasn't priced to the high high end which is the direction everything at disney is going, not just the boathouse as a stand alone entity.

and while disney doesn't own boathouse, they surely knew their price point before building.

No, it's not taking it to the logical conclusion... Your post suggests artificial limits.. where my point is more about 'what is your business plan' and sticking to it. And the commentary is... it seems the business plan of WDW continues to shift away from the demographic the Disney brand has focused on.



It is again about the product as a whole - and not just in isolation. Do you build a Ferrari Dealer just 'anywhere' and say 'well people have a range of incomes'... nor does that means you only build Ferrari Dealerships.

How long before the next tier down becomes stupid expensive and people say 'well its not as expensive as the boathouse...'

I don't like the increasing # of things you put right in front of customers saying "you gotta pay to play" and "sorry you can't afford this". Just because you have executive level offerings doesn't mean you flaunt them in front of the other customers - doing that enough causes bad blood with customers. I don't like the ratio premium priced products vs more mainstream. I don't like the price point Disney is setting for it's mainstream stuff.

Customers tolerate finding locations aren't priced for them... to a point. If you walk around and find 1 of 5 places is too high for your taste, but 4 of 5 still do and you pick your favorite.. everyone is cool. But if you walk around and find 5 of 5 are too high for your taste, or even the majority are... the customer is discouraged and bothered. You must consider the product make-up - not just products in isolation saying 'there is a customer, somewhere, that wants this'.

Disney seems to be on this trajectory to condition customers like the 'who cares about debt' crowd of the early 2000s.. who cares about the prices, just charge it! Excess and overspending that isn't sustainable and eventually comes crashing down. But in the meantime, drags everything upwards because of relative comparisons.

Disney was built upon wholesome, premium grade product. Not targeting or encouraging glutenous spending. Look at the offerings Disney has been rolling out... every one seems to be aiming higher and higher in what they can either convert into an upcharge, or pushing price points.

Disney trips were always expensive.. but you felt you got a return for that spend (and the cruises still manage that balance to a degree). Now it just looks like fleecing because the demand is there... capitalize on it.

If Disney Springs becomes this boutique level district where I need to sell a kidney to eat and entertain my family... then I will be greatly disappointed in Disney.

well said, its not that its bad to have one or two high high end places, but seeing as this is the first restaurant to open in the landing area, and he first new restaurant at disney springs other than the food trucks

this is a really bad omen, as this begs the question, WILL ALL THE NEW OFFERINGS IN THE LANDINGS AND DISNEY SPRINGS be out of reach of the mainstream guests?

So I guess they should black out the windows on the monorail so people who can't afford it don't have to see the GF or Poly while riding the express loop.

surprised you didnt say the contemporary, as the monorail doesn't go in the gf or poly just past it.

I'm worried about the whole - not this one restaurant in isolation. Look at all of Disney's recent work... where has the middle ground gone? Everything is aiming at this 'overspending' crowd. From pre-paying for viewing spots, to prepaying to skip lines, to taking pizza to crazy prices, to ramping up the prices at each restaurant they touch, to driving higher and higher offerings like these. Where is the balance in adding capacity in the moderate or lower tiers?

The overpriced Food Trucks?? Honestly the closest thing I can think of in the moderate category of late has been the Art of Animation.. and that's a stretch. Maybe BoG's menu.

Why do I need to chose between $30 a plate and walk-up counters? I'm not saying Disney only should have EoS... I'm commenting on the trajectory the company has been on and where they have been expanding.

I reserve judgement on the boathouse itself until we actually see what level of food and service they deliver on. Yes, there are other locations that charge similar prices for their meals... but they tend to be based on their level of service and offerings - not simply 'because its disney'.

I'm over paying for premium because it's associated with Disney - they've ruined that association. If you want me to pay premiums, you better deliver on it.

I'd love to hear what people are actually budgeting for food/day now on their trips...

well said,

my whole point that got lost in the arguing, was that seeing as this is the first new themed dining option opened at downtown disney in years, it sets the tone of the direction things are going.

which means that possibly all the restaurants being added will be geared to the upperclass

and its just disappointing that the theme of the boathouse appears to be kid friendly and attracting people visually with the amphicars etc, but then STICKER shock when they see the menu.

if the boathouse was built like one of the places on the water in south florida, it would of been better, downstairs is the "normal budget" restaurant, then upstairs is the expensive steakhouse.

with this arrangement everyone gets to experience the location, and it prevents it from feeling elitist.

 

[mm121]

Fair points, but give it time to reveal itself. My thoughts are first the menu will dictate that this restaurant is more high end (especially the prices). Second will be DDP or more importantly lack of it. If they establish the Landing as a more adult oriented sub-section of Disney Springs with high end, fancy restaurants it will have an identity. There's still room for the World of Disney and RFC at Disney Springs just like there was room for them when PI was full of nightclubs.

RFC?

 

[GoofGoof]

no everything wasn't free, but it also wasn't priced to the high high end which is the direction everything at disney is going, not just the boathouse as a stand alone entity.

and while disney doesn't own boathouse, they surely knew their price point before building.

well said, its not that its bad to have one or two high high end places, but seeing as this is the first restaurant to open in the landing area, and he first new restaurant at disney springs other than the food trucks

this is a really bad omen, as this begs the question, WILL ALL THE NEW OFFERINGS IN THE LANDINGS AND DISNEY SPRINGS be out of reach of the mainstream guests?


surprised you didnt say the contemporary, as the monorail doesn't go in the gf or poly just past it.


well said,

my whole point that got lost in the arguing, was that seeing as this is the first new themed dining option opened at downtown disney in years, it sets the tone of the direction things are going.

which means that possibly all the restaurants being added will be geared to the upperclass

and its just disappointing that the theme of the boathouse appears to be kid friendly and attracting people visually with the amphicars etc, but then STICKER shock when they see the menu.

if the boathouse was built like one of the places on the water in south florida, it would of been better, downstairs is the "normal budget" restaurant, then upstairs is the expensive steakhouse.

with this arrangement everyone gets to experience the location, and it prevents it from feeling elitist.

Based on the vendor list so far I think it's fair to assume that the Landing will be a high end restaurant district.

 

[GoofGoof]

RFC?

Rain Forest Cafe.

 

[sshindel]

my whole point that got lost in the arguing, was that seeing as this is the first new themed dining option opened at downtown disney in years, it sets the tone of the direction things are going.

which means that possibly all the restaurants being added will be geared to the upperclass

While I understand what you are getting at here, and also with the other restaurants we know about in Morimoto, STK, and The Edison will all likely be more expensive than your standard fare at Raglan Road, it's pretty unfair to look at a single dining menu for a huge expansion and jump to the immediate conclusion that the entire Disney Springs project is going to be all high-end focused.

Havianas was one of the first stores to open. That would be like assuming that every store is going to sell flip flops because of it, or that they were all going to sell items in a specific price range based on the cost of their flip flops.

 

[meyeet]

I'm tired of the talk about "elitism". It's a restaurant that wants to open and charge higher prices for its food. If the quality or service are not worth the price then it will close down or change its business model. Why does this bother so many people on here?

 

[mm121]

Basted on the vendor list so far I think it's fair to assume that the Landing will be a high end restaurant district.

so basically disney doesn't think that "normal budget" and no I'm not saying poor as disney has never been a cheap vacation deserve new dining destinations, and must be stuck with the old? why can't the places just be more varied, theres nothing wrong with including some high end offerings on menus, but why must the entire menus consist of $60 and UP a person meals.

especially places that prior to seeing the menu like the boathouse have a oh that place looks cool vibe, then you get to the menu board and then people will have to walk away in disappointment

or worse yet they sit down then discover they forget to take out a second mortgage.

 

[xdan0920]

I'm joining way late here.
Let me see if I have the gist.
The boathouse has some very expensive steaks.
These steaks are expensive, but on par with high-end steakhouses.
Disney is stupid and money grubbing for letting a 3rd party restaurant come in and offer high-end steaks at market-appropriate prices.

Is that it?

Yes!

 

[sshindel]

so basically disney doesn't think that "normal budget" and no I'm not saying poor as disney has never been a cheap vacation deserve new dining destinations, and must be stuck with the old? why can't the places just be more varied, theres nothing wrong with including some high end offerings on menus, but why must the entire menus consist of $60 and UP a person meals.

Because not all restaurants need to be for all people.
When I am dining at Alinea (ok, its been a while since I've done this, kids put a damper on finances), I do not bemoan the fact that there is no dollar menu. If this place is intended to serve as a high-end restaurant, it is not expected that it MUST have a budget friendly section included.

 

[xdan0920]

so basically disney doesn't think that "normal budget" and no I'm not saying poor as disney has never been a cheap vacation deserve new dining destinations, and must be stuck with the old? why can't the places just be more varied, theres nothing wrong with including some high end offerings on menus, but why must the entire menus consist of $60 and UP a person meals.

especially places that prior to seeing the menu like the boathouse have a oh that place looks cool vibe, then you get to the menu board and then people will have to walk away in disappointment

or worse yet they sit down then discover they forget to take out a second mortgage.

There are plenty of places to eat that have a lower price point. Choose one of those. Schussler is going for a high end steakhouse, and have priced it in step with that category.

 

[Magic Sean]

Here is my very small 2 cents. Anyone complaining about price you have to ask yourself where are you . Disney Corp does not get Billions of dollars a year by making fair prices or to cater to poor and middle class family's. Walt has been dead for a long time now. He is not coming back and Disney Corp is going to want to make more and more profits every year. Disney will do what it wants where it wants and choose how much it costs. Only way to change this is to stop going there and giving them all your money. Most people here complaining about price is most likely because they are spending all of there money already just to get park tickets and hotel rooms and don't have the extra cash flow for fine dining. If you are at that part then its simple stop going to Disney take your kids someplace else and experience some culture. You could travel to other country's or visit someplace already in your own country for the same price but most likely cheaper since Disney prices just increase year after year. So you can Rally, write letters and complain on forums but that has done and will do nothing. Sorry if this is not what you want to hear but someone has got to say it.

 

[andysol]

my whole point that got lost in the arguing, was that seeing as this is the first new themed dining option opened at downtown disney in years, it sets the tone of the direction things are going.

If I'm opening up a development- why would I not want to have my premier restaurant open up first as a showcase?

it prevents it from feeling elitist.

Stop with the Elitism. Just stop. Enough. It's ridiculous. It's a restaurant
You know what is vastly worse in our world than Elitism? Entitlement.

 

[mm121]

There are plenty of places to eat that have a lower price point. Choose one of those. Schussler is going for a high end steakhouse, and have priced it in step with that category.

its fine if it wanted to be a high end steakhouse, but then make it look boring and stiff, not fun and family friendly from the outside.

This whole thing could have been avoided by calling it

THE YACHTHOUSE, then its obvious its only for the rich.

 

[GoofGoof]

so basically disney doesn't think that "normal budget" and no I'm not saying poor as disney has never been a cheap vacation deserve new dining destinations, and must be stuck with the old? why can't the places just be more varied, theres nothing wrong with including some high end offerings on menus, but why must the entire menus consist of $60 and UP a person meals.

especially places that prior to seeing the menu like the boathouse have a oh that place looks cool vibe, then you get to the menu board and then people will have to walk away in disappointment

or worse yet they sit down then discover they forget to take out a second mortgage.

In my mind this seems to be a clear plan to establish a fine dining district at Disney Springs. It's replacing a district filled with night clubs so it's not like the average family is losing anything. They appear to have a target demographic and it's not the average guest eating at Chef Mickeys or Ohanna.

We still don't know every location that will open in Disney Springs. There were some rumors that the Town Center area might have some dining as well. They also are redoing at least the outside of Planet Hollywood. Maybe they will upgrade the menu there too (better food not higher prices). Plus the food trucks.

To your point and @flynnibus too I think the average guest might be confused at first and then disappointed when they see the menus.

 

[GoofGoof]

its fine if it wanted to be a high end steakhouse, but then make it look boring and stiff, not fun and family friendly from the outside.

This whole thing could have been avoided by calling it

THE YACHTHOUSE, then its obvious its only for the rich.

Honestly, it's kinda boring from the outside. The colors are nice, but it's not in the league with many other offerings on property as far as appealing to families and kids. The boats look cool, but you can ride those without even eating there.

Don't kid yourself either. There will be plenty of families and kids eating there, just like all of the Signature places on property.

 

[mm121]

In my mind this seems to be a clear plan to establish a fine dining district at Disney Springs. It's replacing a district filled with night clubs so it's not like the average family is losing anything. They appear to have a target demographic and it's not the average guest eating at Chef Mickeys or Ohanna.

We still don't know every location that will open in Disney Springs. There were some rumors that the Town Center area might have some dining as well. They also are redoing at least the outside of Planet Hollywood. Maybe they will upgrade the menu there too (better food not higher prices). Plus the food trucks.

Young adults missed out when pleasure island got messed up, it got totally ruined when they stopped charging for entry to the island, and closed it rather than fixing the issues.

its too bad there hasn't been a plan to bring back truly "fun" places, preferably build a zone over to the west of the west side, that way it could be blocked off without restricting pedestrian flow between the marketplace and the westside, like the original pleasure island.

Watchout, its only a matter of time before they block the landing off again with swipe the american express black card here stations before entry is granted.

To your point and @flynnibus too I think the average guest might be confused at first and then disappointed when they see the menus.

Its just disappointing that they are restricting such a prime waterfront location

would it really hurt to have a different lunch menu? I mean everyone knows places are more expensive for dinner, so if budget is an issue they go for lunch.

 

[GoofGoof]

Young adults missed out when pleasure island got messed up, it got totally ruined when they stopped charging for entry to the island, and closed it rather than fixing the issues.

its too bad there hasn't been a plan to bring back truly "fun" places, preferably build a zone over to the west of the west side, that way it could be blocked off without restricting pedestrian flow between the marketplace and the westside, like the original pleasure island.

Watchout, its only a matter of time before they block the landing off again with swipe the american express black card here stations before entry is granted.



Its just disappointing that they are restricting such a prime waterfront location

would it really hurt to have a different lunch menu? I mean everyone knows places are more expensive for dinner, so if budget is an issue they go for lunch.

No clue if there will be a lunch menu or not. There are several bars so it will be possible to go and have a drink without ordering a $50+ steak.

 

[JohnWD]

Can afford it, why not go someplace other than Disney Springs? Won't get hit by strollers at Pointe Orlando.

I can afford it, so why not have a unique experience with my kids at DS? We stay at a disney deluxe resort, and going to DTD is something we always do. We have plenty of high end restaurants at home so DS restaurants will be a treat.