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TEA Global Attendance Index is out

Chi84

Premium Member
This is kinda the long and short of these debates.

Most of us exist in a bubble of our own making. Most of what we see and hear in regard to the parks is coming from a fandom. Fandoms are entities that thrive off of complaint and negativity, and we all participate in it.

For some, the complaints and negativity are about the company, the parks, and leadership decisions. For others, it’s complaints and negativity about those other people’s complaints and negativity.

But outside of our bubble, in the real world, little if anything has really changed about the way your average person feels about the prospect of going to Disney, and little if anything has changed about how the average person who ends up going feels about the experience. It’s as varied as it always was. There was never a singular defining winner of a position to either of those questions.

We can point to how we feel personally as proof of whatever we want to prove, or point to whatever other people in the fandom say as proof of whatever we want to prove, but the reality is that none of us really has our ear the ground on the subject of whether or not most of the people clicking into a park enjoyed it.

Anyone who claims to see this with any degree of objectivity on either side of the discussion is delusional at best, a liar at worst. It simply isn’t possible for us. We are deep inside of an echo chamber. For goodness sake, we’re on a Disney Parks forum arguing about attendance. If that isn’t proof that we’re not exactly in the company of the average guest visiting Disney, I don’t know what is.

We can post as many articles about Disney’s price increases as we want, or comb through as many numbers as we want, but they will not reveal anything to us. They will simply confirm in our minds what we independently already decided to be true.

At the end of the day, whether attendance is up, down, or flat, Disney is operating 5 of the most visited theme parks in the US, and 8 in the world. That to me says something very clear: the vast majority of folks who’re interested in going to Disney or have gone to Disney are not sitting on social media or online to discuss it. The conversations we see in our spaces are not your average guest, and trying to extrapolate what they say outward to represent the voice of a majority is a fool’s errand.

The story is not in table service restaurant availability or in ride wait times. The story is in do people want to go, do they go, and how is it for them when they get there?

And that is a story that will NEVER be told to us, no matter how much any one of us wants to claim we’ve got it all figured out.
This is well-said.

It’s human nature to want your opinions validated. That’s why we see all the “most people” “vast majority” language.

In the end people who participate in this kind of fandom are passionate and tend to see what they want to see. That won’t change.
 

Chi84

Premium Member
To me. I think Disney’s focus has shifted from “Did we exceed your expectations?” To “Did we meet your expectations?” Subtle but significant.

And before the pixie dusters start opening their pixie canisters - my expectations are usually met because I have adjusted my expectation level. And I can still find a way to have fun. And yes, I still think it’s a money grab.
I personally think Disney is much too expensive to just meet expectations.

The company is greedy but I believe they still do much better than other similar entertainment options.

If it gets to the point where we’re not excited and happy about our trips I don’t think we would be willing to pay for them. That’s what Disney needs to worry about.
 

"El Gran Magnifico"

Premium Member
I personally think Disney is much too expensive to just meet expectations.

The company is greedy but I believe they still do much better than other similar entertainment options.

If it gets to the point where we’re not excited and happy about our trips I don’t think we would be willing to pay for them. That’s what Disney needs to worry about.
magic-dust-salt-bae.gif
 

Sir_Cliff

Well-Known Member
This is well-said.

It’s human nature to want your opinions validated. That’s why we see all the “most people” “vast majority” language.

In the end people who participate in this kind of fandom are passionate and tend to see what they want to see. That won’t change.
That is very true, but it does make the discussion of this thread's topic very tiresome as it often ends up getting overwhelmed by people with strong opinions determined that the data prove them right rather than engaging with what it actually shows. I am honestly kind of amazed at how resilient Disney's parks have proved through all of these price rises, bad publicity, and economic uncertainty, even though I err on the side of the price rises and upcharges making the experience unreasonably expensive and complicated. Understanding that and particularly the contrast with Universal that was supposed to be benefiting from changing consumer sentiment seems more interesting to me then continuing the trend of predicting/reporting the coming/current collapse that has been going on for decades now.

But then we had a whole thread sparked by a NYTimes article using WDW as a way to discuss how income and spending had become increasingly concentrated in the top 20% of the US population and how that had changed the behaviour of corporate America, and the discussion also just became about how Disney was being too greedy and will pay the price. 🤷‍♂️
 
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Stripes

Premium Member
Do you think the parks are filled with only people spending $300 on port Orleans?

Or are you lauding vacation club rooms
Paid for 25 years ago?
Is that at a “hotel room occupancy is kicking butt” I hear?
The world is my stage, baby
Adorable, hun! Is there an intermission coming up soon? The audience could use a change in lead!
 

Chi84

Premium Member
That is very true, but it does make the discussion of this thread's topic very tiresome as it often ends up getting overwhelmed by people with strong opinions determined that the data prove them right rather than engaging with what it actually shows. I am honestly kind of amazed at how resilient Disney's parks have proved through all of these price rises, bad publicity, and economic uncertainty, even though I err on the side of the price rises and uncharges making the experience unreasonably expensive and complicated. Understanding that and particularly the contrast with Universal that was supposed to be benefiting from changing consumer sentiment seems more interesting to me then continuing the trend of predicting/reporting the coming/current collapse that has been going on for decades now.

But then we had a whole thread sparked by a NYTimes article using WDW as a way to discuss how income and spending had become increasingly concentrated in the top 20% of the US population and how that had changed the behaviour of corporate America, and the discussion also just became about how Disney was being too greedy and will pay the price. 🤷‍♂️
I agree that the discussion would be better if people engaged with facts and stayed on topic.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
That is very true, but it does make the discussion of this thread's topic very tiresome as it often ends up getting overwhelmed by people with strong opinions determined that the data prove them right rather than engaging with what it actually shows. I am honestly kind of amazed at how resilient Disney's parks have proved through all of these price rises, bad publicity, and economic uncertainty, even though I err on the side of the price rises and upcharges making the experience unreasonably expensive and complicated. Understanding that and particularly the contrast with Universal that was supposed to be benefiting from changing consumer sentiment seems more interesting to me then continuing the trend of predicting/reporting the coming/current collapse that has been going on for decades now.

But then we had a whole thread sparked by a NYTimes article using WDW as a way to discuss how income and spending had become increasingly concentrated in the top 20% of the US population and how that had changed the behaviour of corporate America, and the discussion also just became about how Disney was being too greedy and will pay the price. 🤷‍♂️
This is a great perspective and I have to agree with it…even if it throws dirt on a lot of the problem i rail about.

Because it does…and they are remarkable resilient. Almost annoying so…

But that is what the 100 year reputation has given them. I worry that bad management is draining that good will reservoir. And that’s not good for any of us. I know some share that thought. And some of those didn’t post that way when i first starting prowling here. It’s a real trend…

My recurring peeve is the assumption among fans that Disney “has to be honest” in their tactics and numbers. No they don’t…that’s beyond silly.
It’s not how business works.

Consumers are different than suppliers…it’s appropriate and actually healthy for the market to maintain a little skepticism, distance.

Speech over 🎙️
 

Jrb1979

Well-Known Member
I personally think Disney is much too expensive to just meet expectations.

The company is greedy but I believe they still do much better than other similar entertainment options.

If it gets to the point where we’re not excited and happy about our trips I don’t think we would be willing to pay for them. That’s what Disney needs to worry about.
The one thing that gets overlooked a lot and is something you have said a few times is that if you didn't pay for your kids to go they wouldn't be going at all.

That to me is a big problem and something that Disney was built on.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
I’d actually dispute the narrative that “ordinary” people can no longer go to Disney. The parks are full of people who seem perfectly “average” to me. Yes, it’s an expensive product, but the idea that Middle American families have been pushed out by luxury holidaymakers and childless Disney adults seems untenable to me based on the demographics of the parks as I’ve experienced them.
You just nailed the problem…the economic reality is one thing that’s developing…while the stupidity of management and blind defense of it are too different things

The problem is time…as in Disney has the Luxury (few companies have it better) of not having trends show for a long time

I call it the “long fuse”

People have increasingly short attention spans. So when someone says that attendance doesn’t look to be headed in the right direction- cause it’s not - the only way that will ever be considered by many is if it’s packed last Saturday and literally empty today…

That’s not a logical expectation…but people haven’t figured out how to find truth in the technology driven, instant gratification world yet
 

Chi84

Premium Member
The one thing that gets overlooked a lot and is something you have said a few times is that if you didn't pay for your kids to go they wouldn't be going at all.

That to me is a big problem and something that Disney was built on.
I 100% agree that it's a big problem.

I contacted Disney about the short-lived parking fees and the removal of Magical Express even though we're DVC and we drive. Someone actually called me both times.

I stressed that if we were first starting out with a young family the added expense and hassle would likely have caused us to go elsewhere. I said "you're going to lose young families with this nonsense."

Each time they listened but ended by saying that they were glad the changes did not affect me personally.
 

culturenthrills

Well-Known Member
What sucks is there is no quick fix for Universal. IOA ia finally having the island that has been dead for years replaced but there are still other holes in the park that have to be dealt with
Studios is getting a coaster but it will still need many other replacements for Fast and other areas.
As amazing as Epic is it still blows my mind that they totally disregarded the lessons from IOA and built a park where 3/4 of the attractions go down when it storms. Everything built from now on needs to be indoors or covered. The quickest fix would be to green light the show that was created for Dark Universe and then adding a dark ride to SNW and Berk. And Celstial parkneeds something else besides all those restaurants
 

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