TEA Attendance Report Now due June 3rd

[Captain Chaos]

Nintendo could be big, but just how big we don't yet know. It all depends on what attractions we're getting out of it.

Universal's next attraction:

Screens... screens everywhere!!!!

 

[Mike S]

Welp... you guys did it. Just booked my first trip to USF/IOA for a spontaneous trip this Sept 23rd for 3 nights with DD5 (will be DD6 by that time). Can't wait to see Harry Potter.
Will also give me a chance to see MNSSHP this year since I'll miss it the beginning of Sept for my other trip.

Welcome to the dark side.

 

[hopemax]

Well, Amusement Business used to do the Yearly Survey before they went under and now TEA took up that mantle around 06 or 07.

Finding the old reports is a tad difficult.

Do we need the actual reports or just the numbers? The numbers were reported by other news organizations, published on other website sites, and those places have archives.

When I was pulling numbers yesterday, I started with the ones on my hard drive which were 1990s - 2004...Yeah, I've been doing this awhile. Not the reports, but a table with the numbers I had kept. But are they really that hard to find?

 

[PhotoDave219]

Do we need the actual reports or just the numbers? The numbers were reported by other news organizations, published on other website sites, and those places have archives.

When I was pulling numbers yesterday, I started with the ones on my hard drive which were 1990s - 2004...Yeah, I've been doing this awhile. Not the reports, but a table with the numbers I had kept. But are they really that hard to find?

Before 2006, yeah. They've disappeared .

I'm not doubting your numbers, I just wanna see them

 

[donsullivan]

Do we need the actual reports or just the numbers? The numbers were reported by other news organizations, published on other website sites, and those places have archives.

When I was pulling numbers yesterday, I started with the ones on my hard drive which were 1990s - 2004...Yeah, I've been doing this awhile. Not the reports, but a table with the numbers I had kept. But are they really that hard to find?

There are lots of data sets out there but you really need to have the actual report to confirm the authenticity of the data. I've got a bunch of data on WDW back to 1995 but I'm not 100% confident of the source or accuracy so I didn't share it. It all seems consistent with the patterns but I only shared data for which the source could be confirmed. There is enough speculation and hyperbole flying around all of this without adding unverified data elements into the mix. Just my thoughts on it.

 

[hopemax]

Well, I think the Amusement Business Reports were always "pay a lot of money" for it. So all we ever had of those were the newspapers like the Orlando Sentinel or Associated Press reporting about them. Like this:

2004: http://legacy.utsandiego.com/news/business/20041213-1243-themeparkattendance.html

2001: http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2001/12/23/fin_list_of_most_popular.html

1999: http://enquirer.com/editions/2000/01/16/loc_top_50_north.html

So you just have to go through the newspaper archives, and even the paid ones are often accessible via having a library card and using their online resources like ProQuest. Or at least that's how I used to do it.

Once upon a time, I had a website for this stuff, and I sourced my tables. So I apologize for the space, but in case someone did really want to look this stuff up, here are some articles to start with.

1 Kathryn Harris “Disney Net Climbs to $32.19 Million in Quarter,” Los AngelesTimes (January 19, 1985)

2 Vicky Vaughn “23.9 Million Visitors Disney World Official Reveals Attendance Figure for 1986,” The Orlando Sentinel (February 23, 1987)

3 Vicki Vaughn “Attractions’ turnstile totals breaks records,” The Orlando Sentinel (January 12, 1988)

4 Mark Albright “Busch Gardens had great year with panda pair,” St. Petersburg Times (January 11, 1989)

5 Vicki Vaughn “Tourism chalks up no big gains in a year of uncertainty number of visitors falls at Disney, Sea World,” The Orlando Sentinel (January 10, 1991)

6 “Now you know where all the tourists are headed,” The Orlando Sentinel (April 16, 1992)

7 Vicki Vaughn “Attendance rises at theme parks Disney up 12%; Universal climbs 8%,” The Orlando Sentinel (January 18, 1993)

8 Susan G. Strother, “Sea World, Universal post gains, visitor count down at Disney attractions in 1993 projections,” The Orlando Sentinel (December 13, 1993)

9 Leslie Dolittle “Despite slips, Disney rules park world,” The Orlando Sentinel (December 26, 1994)

10 Christine Shenot “Orlando theme parks gain visitors but Disneyland tops in attendance,” The Orlando Sentinel (December 19, 1995)

11 Jill Jorden Spitz “’96 is record year for theme parks in central Florida,” The Orlando Sentinel (December 27, 1996)

12 Teresa Burney “Florida dominates list of popular theme parks” St. Petersburg Times (December 31, 1997)

13 Jerry Hirsch “Parks' theme: '98 was slow ENTERTAINMENT: Of area attractions, only Knott's held steady in its number of visitors,” The Orange County Register (December 19, 1998)

14 “Disney parks dominate attendance,” The Palm Beach Post (December 18, 1999)

15 “America’s Top Theme Parks,” The Dallas Morning News (December 23, 2000)

16 Jerry W. Jackson “Lines shrink at big parks vacationers are traveling within a smaller world, finding fun at amusement parks closer to home,” The Orlando Sentinel (December 23, 2001)

17 Note: the article, as well as others report attendance was 14.7 million, down 5%, since 2001’s attendance was reported at 14.7, one can only assume that the 14.7 figure was a typo by Amusement Business. Robert Johnson “Crowds grow at Universal’s Islands Attendance slumped at Disney’s area parks, though they still topped a yearly ranking,” The Orlando Sentinel (December 21, 2002)

18 “Amusement parks — the top 25” The Deseret News (December 30, 2003)

19 “A list of the top 25 best-attended parks in North America” Associated Press Archive (December 13, 2004)

20 “Theme Park Attendance Soars *** Good weather, new rides draw throngs of visitors *** Top 25 in 2005,” The Advocate (December 27, 2005)

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

There's a Wikipedia page with attendance to 2001... http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_amusement_park_rankings.

 

[hopemax]

Something tells me they won't trust Wikipedia, or the sources listed on Wikipedia. Theme Park Insider does have some, and they list their source as Amusement Business or sometimes a news article that sourced Amusement Business. But I think people are looking for something up the chain. But if not

2005: http://www.themeparkinsider.com/flume/200512/2/
2004: http://www.themeparkinsider.com/news/response.cfm?ID=1921
2003: http://www.themeparkinsider.com/news/response.cfm?ID=1427
2002: http://www.themeparkinsider.com/news/response.cfm?ID=882. (ignore pheniex's name, the source is listed at the bottom, newspapers)
2001: http://www.themeparkinsider.com/news/response.cfm?ID=304

 

[PhotoDave219]

There's a Wikipedia page with attendance to 2001... http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_amusement_park_rankings.

Yes, it doesnt go back far enough.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Something tells me they won't trust Wikipedia, or the sources listed on Wikipedia. Theme Park Insider does have some, and they list their source as Amusement Business or sometimes a news article that sourced Amusement Business. But I think people are looking for something up the chain. But if not

2005: http://www.themeparkinsider.com/flume/200512/2/
2004: http://www.themeparkinsider.com/news/response.cfm?ID=1921
2003: http://www.themeparkinsider.com/news/response.cfm?ID=1427
2002: http://www.themeparkinsider.com/news/response.cfm?ID=882. (ignore pheniex's name, the source is listed at the bottom, newspapers)
2001: http://www.themeparkinsider.com/news/response.cfm?ID=304

The Amusement Business reports were compiled first by ERA (Economic Research Associates) and then AECOM following the AECOM acquisition of ERA.

 

[danlb_2000]

The "Rivers of Light" show may be even more important to Animal Kingdom than the Avatar rides, since it and the increased operating hours will help them finally transition to a full-day park.
This might not be reflected so strongly in the "first click" metrics, but it will certainly help the park remain more profitable, especially when people start buying dinner there.

I think the two are equally important part of the whole plan. Without something more to do in the part, Avatar, people would simply start their day there later and stay for Rivers of Light.

 

[jt04]

Cool contradictions, but perhaps you first should cool off about your odd shopping mall obsession if you're so concerned with the direction of this thread. Tis only fair, I was just pointing out how "right" you always are when it comes to Disney news and all the times you've "had the last laugh".

Speaking of which, wasn't there some imaginary pendulum that you mentioned was supposed to have swung back towards WDW several years ago? Hm, wonder what happened there. Perhaps the clock broke. Wouldn't be the only broken thing at WDW though, so at least it fits.

Frozen
Disney Springs
Star Wars
Pandora
Soarin/TSMM expansion
Pixar
and more no doubt for the 50th.

Thanks for participating.

 

[Mike S]

Frozen Cheap replacement
Disney Springs Nobody will book a vacation to Disney for a mall except maybe you
Star Wars Not before 2020
Pandora Let's see how that turns out first
Soarin/TSMM expansion Yay, rides we've already ridden for years!!! /sarcasm
Pixar Hope you enjoy carni rides
and more no doubt for the 50th. That's still 6 years out. How about shorter term?

Thanks for participating. No, thank you

 

[danlb_2000]

Sure sign that Disney isn't doing enough when a list of what is coming has to be fleshed out with things that are only rumors.

 

[PhotoDave219]

There are lots of data sets out there but you really need to have the actual report to confirm the authenticity of the data. I've got a bunch of data on WDW back to 1995 but I'm not 100% confident of the source or accuracy so I didn't share it. It all seems consistent with the patterns but I only shared data for which the source could be confirmed. There is enough speculation and hyperbole flying around all of this without adding unverified data elements into the mix. Just my thoughts on it.

I have a data set as well, we should compare notes.

 

[Mouse_Trap]

It is depressing to hear my favorite park, SW Orlando, has a "declining" attendance. The park is well themed and is a family based park. Every time im asked what is the best theme park in Orlando is, I say for the family its SW, for the thrill seekers is Universal.

I hope that people look past the negativity placed on SW and go to their parks to see what it truly is about.

I too love Seaworld, it also has 3 great coaster rides - with a 4th on the way.

Hate to see their numbers falling.

 

[AEfx]

Now to my point, simply pulling numbers out of time can paint whatever picture you wish to convey.

That's great info but to be clear, I wasn't trying to "paint" any picture in particular, nor was my choosing of 2009 in any way "strategic" toward an end. It just came organically from the discussion of "how much has Universal grown due to Potter", the first year of that impact being 2009. My goal was to show the impact of all the attractions that Universal has been building on it's business. Universal = adding all kinds of attractions, huge growth, WDW = stagnant, stagnant numbers (again, excepting the exceptonal MK).

That said, if you want to do a real survey of such a long time period, then as @ParentsOf4 stated earlier, you need to take into account the larger context. If you want a thorough survey, particularly on Disney, you need to take into account the vast discount and promotion programs that existed during those periods, etc. At that point, you need to bring in a lot more data to make the complete picture that you are discussing if you want to make that kind of broad judgement.

 

[hopemax]

Hopefully, this works. But I put the WDW numbers on Google Docs, with the list of sources I included above. 1972-2005, when I stopped updating the list. I'll add the Universal numbers, but they don't have nice sources like WDW, because at the time I didn't know it would be necessary.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1t2lLi0gOU4gOb3HDpLv5bZPTWY_JfBC3sbgkEvAunR0/edit?usp=sharing

 

[Mouse_Trap]

Are you telling me your daughter was more interested in THIS

than THIS?!?!?!

But Disney is so MAGICal!!!!!!!!!

Anna and Else will seem ohh so tame after this:

 

[AEfx]

I'll tell you one thing, my most recent trip included a night at Cabana Bay. I've gone from only Disney trips, to Disney/Universal trips, to potentially spending nights at Universal. The question now is, how many other people are like me?

Atypical, but like just about anyone here. Our habits are almost never going to reflect true trends. Particularly those that have AP's, etc., like I believe you have (that makes a tremendous difference in overall costs).

It would be really great if we could get data on that. From my anecdotal experience being the "point person" in my social/work groups about Disney, people are picking one or the other. I always help them lay out all the choices (at first it stung quite a bit that folks would even consider Orlando without Disney, I'd get this pang of "that's really too bad..." but I've gotten used to it).

But when you do the numbers, it's just so expensive to do both, and Disney's incentives to keep you staying longer (the 5 for 7 deals, or the ticket pricing structure to begin with where there isn't a significant difference once you get to a certain amount of days) and pretty much insistence that you stay on site, that folks feel like they'd essentially be paying for two vacations when an Orlando theme park vacation is so packed and anti-relaxing to begin with. Even when you price out staying at one off-site hotel the whole time, when you then add a rental car, and parking every day, etc. - and the thought of spending the entire trip racing around in a car - it makes the decision for them.

And the thing is, the people who come to me are the "new audience" that is among the new 14ish% of folks being brought into the area. People that have never been, or have been to WDW once ten or eight years ago, and have either never or only once been to the Universal parks. Universal is almost always their #1 interest (the must do) because of Potter, etc.

Again, though, that's my completely anecdotal experience, but when you sit down and look at the numbers, you see why folks would think that way. I really wish we had data on this sort of thing because I believe this is really the story here.