Sam Magic
Well-Known Member
Of course everyone gets basic respect, but if you don't want to be judged by others then don't join a contest. How can you judge when you don't know the community or have never been in a contest?
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TAFI Town Hall
- Thread starter jdmdisney99
- Start date
spacemt354
Chili's
Let's just drop this. As Jokers said, we should focus on the Tiers and the other more important matters at hand.
Speaking of tiers...
You are all good people at heart. That's how I feel. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
LittleGiants16
Well-Known Member
Guys,
I don't step into this thread much; probably not as much as I should. But, for those who don't know me, I'm LG, the "Guide" for the Conversationalists this year. For those outside the loop, I'm the de facto chairperson for this year's group of Convos. In other words, I like to think I have a little bit of say within TAFI.
So, now to the topic at hand. @englanddg, it was wrong of you to pick a fight like that. It always is. You know it. I know it. We all know it. That said, we can talk about this later.
@DisneyPrincess1993 and @spacemt354, you guys need to realize that, while I firmly believe this is an inclusive and open community, respect within a preformed group is not always immediately granted. As @RMichael21 and @IDInstitute will attest, when they joined the forum, as a group we were hardly quick to immediately heed their words. Now, in no way do I feel we were disrepectful, but they simply hadn't earned the respect of the group yet. But, through hard work and keeping their nose clean, they both quickly rose to a place of prominence within our group. I hope neither of you two are discouraged by this encounter (if either of you are please reach out to me in a pm) and I hope you both will follow the examples of RM and IDI in your efforts to move up within our community.
To everyone else, let's please remember that this is all for fun, that no money is on the line, and that words can be hurtful. This community has traditionally been, and hopefully always will be, an open, engaging, and accepting environment. We've had our struggles (and I have been involved in my share) but we have always perservered and been better for it. So, let's get back to the scheduling conversation at hand and move forward from all of this nonsense.
Thanks,
LG
I don't step into this thread much; probably not as much as I should. But, for those who don't know me, I'm LG, the "Guide" for the Conversationalists this year. For those outside the loop, I'm the de facto chairperson for this year's group of Convos. In other words, I like to think I have a little bit of say within TAFI.
So, now to the topic at hand. @englanddg, it was wrong of you to pick a fight like that. It always is. You know it. I know it. We all know it. That said, we can talk about this later.
@DisneyPrincess1993 and @spacemt354, you guys need to realize that, while I firmly believe this is an inclusive and open community, respect within a preformed group is not always immediately granted. As @RMichael21 and @IDInstitute will attest, when they joined the forum, as a group we were hardly quick to immediately heed their words. Now, in no way do I feel we were disrepectful, but they simply hadn't earned the respect of the group yet. But, through hard work and keeping their nose clean, they both quickly rose to a place of prominence within our group. I hope neither of you two are discouraged by this encounter (if either of you are please reach out to me in a pm) and I hope you both will follow the examples of RM and IDI in your efforts to move up within our community.
To everyone else, let's please remember that this is all for fun, that no money is on the line, and that words can be hurtful. This community has traditionally been, and hopefully always will be, an open, engaging, and accepting environment. We've had our struggles (and I have been involved in my share) but we have always perservered and been better for it. So, let's get back to the scheduling conversation at hand and move forward from all of this nonsense.
Thanks,
LG
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englanddg
One Little Spark...
Well put.
LittleGiants16
Well-Known Member
Perhaps you could pm me and we could discuss this in private, so as this thread may return to the topics at hand.Honestly, speaking as somebody who studies the attitudes of society and impacts on individuals, that's not a very welcoming, open group. We should all look up to Disney, as fanatics, and share the ideals that they spread. I believe this sum up what should be broadcasted throughout this forum since there is so much drama, judging, and lack of respect (where there should be a minimal amount of respect because it is human courtesy) and it makes new, timid members turn away:
Matt7187
Well-Known Member
Honestly, speaking as somebody who studies the attitudes of society and impacts on individuals, that's not a very welcoming, open group. We should all look up to Disney, as fanatics, and share the ideals that they spread. I believe this sum up what should be broadcasted throughout this forum since there is so much drama, judging, and lack of respect (where there should be a minimal amount of respect because it is human courtesy) and it makes new, timid members turn away:
Trust me, this has nothing to do with specifically you and space. I being one of the longer tenured members around here have witnessed some pretty bad things because we trusted and respected a couple members way to early (cough, @Dreamfinder83 and Alien) that almost teared down the foundation we have built up. Now I'm not saying either of you have those intentions or ever would, but because of the things that did happen, we (generally speaking) haven't been able to trust people right out of the gate in fear of more catastrophe. It isn't a knock against you, but we need to get used to people before we embrace them as one of us. That's the message that we are trying to push to you.
englanddg
One Little Spark...
RMichael21
Well-Known Member
Adding on to this, I feel like in order to become even more respected, you have to grow and take new risks. When I participated in WEDCAR, I was new. I barely knew a fraction about Imagineering of what I know now. I still insist that the only reason why I won WEDCAR was because I submitted three days early for every challenge, racking up points instead of really stewing on my ideas. While I maintained a steady third place in every challenge (earning 1 point per challenge), I received another 9 points for turning my concepts in early.
I feel that since then, I've grown. I've learned that sometimes, ideas come to you easier and better when you think about them instead of churning the out as fast as possible. Those who are new, you have to take a risk or step out there in order to become respected. This may include creating a jaw-dropping concept in a non-competition thread or being a rookie and winning a competition. The choice is yours.
It sure wasn't easy being knew. Like @spacemt354, I was a long-time lurker without an account. I was around was watching Master of the Parks, WED's Think Different Challenge, The Sorcerer's Apprentice and Around the World in 30 days (just to name a few), waiting for each due date to come and go. When I finally took a risk on November 2, 2013, what I found was a strong community that had the most amazing imagineers anywhere online. I found friends through many of the competitions on here. @IDInstitute, @Zweiland, @Sam4D23 and @Robert Butnarasu who were all my teammates during The Sorcerer's Apprentice Season Two. @tcool who I met afterwards and became close with. @IDInstitute, @tcool and myself have truly formed a bond centered around the fact that we may not be the people in the community that have been around for the longest, but we're still a part of it and that's okay.
Taking risks and steping out there into the community is truly what helped me and what will help those who are just starting on WDWMagic.
With that, I leave you to go work on my TCG concept.
-RM
spacemt354
Chili's
Trust me, this has nothing to do with specifically you and space. I being one of the longer tenured members around here have witnessed some pretty bad things because we trusted and respected a couple members way to early (cough, @Dreamfinder83 and Alien) that almost teared down the foundation we have built up. Now I'm not saying either of you have those intentions or ever would, but because of the things that did happen, we (generally speaking) haven't been able to trust people right out of the gate in fear of more catastrophe. It isn't a knock against you, but we need to get used to people before we embrace them as one of us. That's the message that we are trying to push to you.
I agree.
I think in summary, we can close the chapter on this for now, with this...
Respect as a member of the imagineer community? - That is earned through time, effort, and work-ethic.
Respect as a human being? - That should be innate and we should always try to be good people to each other.
englanddg
One Little Spark...
Ill just add, I totally agree with this sentiment (as we discussed).I agree.
I think in summary, we can close the chapter on this for now, with this...
Respect as a member of the imagineer community? - That is earned through time, effort, and work-ethic.
Respect as a human being? - That should be innate and we should always try to be good people to each other.
That said, communication and respect are a two way street that all parties involved should seek to understand what the other is trying to say rather than place their feelings on their sleeve and immediately assume that every contrary post is a personal attack of some sort, thereby glossing over the message in the post.
This is meant generally, not specifically. I feel you and I have cleared the air on our end.
What you said is very well put! Cheers.
DinoInstitute
Well-Known Member
I'm glad we were able to come together on this. Re-posting just to move on and return to the topic at hand...
TAFI Competition Selection; TAFI Competition Committee; ICS Competition Tiers
People of the TAFI and WDWMagic community. On behalf of the 2015 TAFI Conversationalists, I'd like to introduce a proposal for a new system that will shape how ICS competitions are selected.
TAFI Schedule Reform:
Blue - Tier 4 Competitions (Four Per Year)
14 days long and accessible to entry level people. This is a great way for a "host" to enter the community as a competition host, as well as something accessible for people who would like to compete, but aren't interested in long comps. Daily or every few days challenge length, but content submission restrictions to keep it simple. In addition, these do not count towards ICS points, as this Tier is more of a "get your feet wet" type competition.
Example: One Sentence Contest
Green - Tier 3 Competitions (Four Per Year)
These are 30 days long, and accessible to entry level people as well, but also everyone else. Daily or every few days challenge length, but content submission restrictions to keep it simple. Rankings count towards ICS points.
Example: Around the Resorts in 30 Days
Orange - Tier 2 Competitions (Four Per Year)
These would be "minor comps". Timed to start about halfway through the major comps, so that people who are eliminated can keep playing. They are more advanced, with half week, or week long deadlines and more complex challenges. They introduce collaboration, but can also be individual. Rankings count towards ICS points.
Example: The Creator Games
Red - Tier 1 Competitions (Four Per Year)
These are the major competitions that happen throughout the year. These are the longest and also the most time consuming. Rankings count towards ICS points.
Examples: The Sole Imagineer, The Sorcerer's Apprentice
Purple
TAFI Administrative points
Tier 1 Competitions (4): January-March, April-June, July-September, September-November
Tier 2 Competitions (4): February-March, May-June, August-September, October-November
Tier 3 Competitions (4): January, April, July, October
Tier 4 Competitions (4): February, May, August, December
This means that throughout the year, there will be 16 competitions with 12 counting towards ICS points.
Competition Competing Requirements:
Anyone can compete in any Tier of competition in the TAFI community. However, there are some guidelines.
First, it is highly recommended that anyone who hasn't competed in a competition or hasn't participated in an extended period of time participate in a Tier 4 Competition first. This will allow the competitor to see if they truly would like to compete and if they really have the time for it.
If one does not successfully complete a Tier 1 Competition or Tier 2 Competition, they must successfully compete in a Tier 3 Competition before they can return to a higher tier competition.
If one does not successfully compete in a Tier 3 Competition, they most successfully compete in a Tier 4 Competition before they can return to a higher tier competition.
Competition Hosting Requirements:
In order to host an ICS endorsed competition, you must have successfully participated in a Tier 1 Competition. This means that you have competed in a Tier 1 Competition until an ultimate win, elimination or lose at a finale. If one does not successfully compete in a Tier 1 Competition, (meaning that they quit or are disqualified) they must successfully compete in one in order to be eligible to host a competition.
However, if you have already hosted a Tier 1 Competition or Tier 2 Competition during the 2015 season, you do not need to submit a proposal if you hosted your competition (or are planning to) this year. This only applies if the host plans to revive the competition for another season. But, in this scenario, the host must contact the committee as soon as possible in order to inform them that you would like to do another installment.
*(This truly only applies to @RMichael21, @jdmdisney99 and @IDInstitute )
ICS Competition Selection Committee (CSC):
In addition, the selection process of competitions will be changed.
A group of members, made up of those who do not desire to host a competition will decide what competitions will pass and be placed in the next year's official lineup. Those who would like to host a competition must bring forward a proposal of their idea to the committee.
Here's how it would work:
JUNE:
Those who desire to host a competition in the first half of the next year are now permitted to start planning a proposal for the competition that they would like to host. First, they must come forward, telling the conversationalists or the public that they plan to submit a concept. In addition, those who do not wish to host a competition in the upcoming year may ask to be a member of the Competition Selection Committee. They will have 3 months to plan this proposal.
JULY:
Proposals will continue to be worked on, as people who would like to host a competition will have 1 month left to organize a concept.
AUGUST:
Proposals for new competitions can be submitted throughout the entire month of August, but they are not officially due until August 31st at 11:59 PM. Any submissions turned in during June or July will be turned away and will the committee will request they "stew" their idea some more. The committee will then review the submissions. If the CSC decides that they would like to see your competition in the next year's schedule, they will privately contact you. However, the results will not be announced to the public until December.
SEPTEMBER:
Those who desire to host a competition in the second half of the next year are now permitted to start planning a proposal for the competition that they would like to host. First, they must come forward, telling the committee or the public that they plan to submit a concept. They will have 3 months to plan this proposal.
OCTOBER:
Proposals will continue to be worked on, as people who would like to host a competition will have 1 month left to organize a concept.
NOVEMBER:
Proposals for new competitions in the second half of the next year can be submitted throughout the entire month of November, but they are not officially due until November 30th at 11:59 PM. Any submissions turned in during September or October will be turned away and will the committee will request they "stew" their idea some more. The committee will then review the submissions. If the CSC decides that they would like to see your competition in the next year's schedule, they will privately contact you. However, the results will not be announced to the public until December.
DECEMBER:
The CSC announces the official schedule for the next year's ICS and TAFI Season. The announcement will happen in early or mid December.
CSC Submission Requirements:
All proposals to the CSC must include the following:
- An introduction.
- A logo.
- An example of a challenge.
- 15-20 sentences about how your competition would add to the WDWMagic community.
- Competition Rules
- How many players would be permitted.
- Describe your competition.
- Would you judge and host by yourself or with others?
- If so, who?
- Anything else that you think will help the CSC choose your competition!
-=+=-
Post your feedback below!
People of the TAFI and WDWMagic community. On behalf of the 2015 TAFI Conversationalists, I'd like to introduce a proposal for a new system that will shape how ICS competitions are selected.
TAFI Schedule Reform:
Blue - Tier 4 Competitions (Four Per Year)
14 days long and accessible to entry level people. This is a great way for a "host" to enter the community as a competition host, as well as something accessible for people who would like to compete, but aren't interested in long comps. Daily or every few days challenge length, but content submission restrictions to keep it simple. In addition, these do not count towards ICS points, as this Tier is more of a "get your feet wet" type competition.
Example: One Sentence Contest
Green - Tier 3 Competitions (Four Per Year)
These are 30 days long, and accessible to entry level people as well, but also everyone else. Daily or every few days challenge length, but content submission restrictions to keep it simple. Rankings count towards ICS points.
Example: Around the Resorts in 30 Days
Orange - Tier 2 Competitions (Four Per Year)
These would be "minor comps". Timed to start about halfway through the major comps, so that people who are eliminated can keep playing. They are more advanced, with half week, or week long deadlines and more complex challenges. They introduce collaboration, but can also be individual. Rankings count towards ICS points.
Example: The Creator Games
Red - Tier 1 Competitions (Four Per Year)
These are the major competitions that happen throughout the year. These are the longest and also the most time consuming. Rankings count towards ICS points.
Examples: The Sole Imagineer, The Sorcerer's Apprentice
Purple
TAFI Administrative points
Tier 1 Competitions (4): January-March, April-June, July-September, September-November
Tier 2 Competitions (4): February-March, May-June, August-September, October-November
Tier 3 Competitions (4): January, April, July, October
Tier 4 Competitions (4): February, May, August, December
This means that throughout the year, there will be 16 competitions with 12 counting towards ICS points.
Competition Competing Requirements:
Anyone can compete in any Tier of competition in the TAFI community. However, there are some guidelines.
First, it is highly recommended that anyone who hasn't competed in a competition or hasn't participated in an extended period of time participate in a Tier 4 Competition first. This will allow the competitor to see if they truly would like to compete and if they really have the time for it.
If one does not successfully complete a Tier 1 Competition or Tier 2 Competition, they must successfully compete in a Tier 3 Competition before they can return to a higher tier competition.
If one does not successfully compete in a Tier 3 Competition, they most successfully compete in a Tier 4 Competition before they can return to a higher tier competition.
Competition Hosting Requirements:
In order to host an ICS endorsed competition, you must have successfully participated in a Tier 1 Competition. This means that you have competed in a Tier 1 Competition until an ultimate win, elimination or lose at a finale. If one does not successfully compete in a Tier 1 Competition, (meaning that they quit or are disqualified) they must successfully compete in one in order to be eligible to host a competition.
However, if you have already hosted a Tier 1 Competition or Tier 2 Competition during the 2015 season, you do not need to submit a proposal if you hosted your competition (or are planning to) this year. This only applies if the host plans to revive the competition for another season. But, in this scenario, the host must contact the committee as soon as possible in order to inform them that you would like to do another installment.
*(This truly only applies to @RMichael21, @jdmdisney99 and @IDInstitute )
ICS Competition Selection Committee (CSC):
In addition, the selection process of competitions will be changed.
A group of members, made up of those who do not desire to host a competition will decide what competitions will pass and be placed in the next year's official lineup. Those who would like to host a competition must bring forward a proposal of their idea to the committee.
Here's how it would work:
JUNE:
Those who desire to host a competition in the first half of the next year are now permitted to start planning a proposal for the competition that they would like to host. First, they must come forward, telling the conversationalists or the public that they plan to submit a concept. In addition, those who do not wish to host a competition in the upcoming year may ask to be a member of the Competition Selection Committee. They will have 3 months to plan this proposal.
JULY:
Proposals will continue to be worked on, as people who would like to host a competition will have 1 month left to organize a concept.
AUGUST:
Proposals for new competitions can be submitted throughout the entire month of August, but they are not officially due until August 31st at 11:59 PM. Any submissions turned in during June or July will be turned away and will the committee will request they "stew" their idea some more. The committee will then review the submissions. If the CSC decides that they would like to see your competition in the next year's schedule, they will privately contact you. However, the results will not be announced to the public until December.
SEPTEMBER:
Those who desire to host a competition in the second half of the next year are now permitted to start planning a proposal for the competition that they would like to host. First, they must come forward, telling the committee or the public that they plan to submit a concept. They will have 3 months to plan this proposal.
OCTOBER:
Proposals will continue to be worked on, as people who would like to host a competition will have 1 month left to organize a concept.
NOVEMBER:
Proposals for new competitions in the second half of the next year can be submitted throughout the entire month of November, but they are not officially due until November 30th at 11:59 PM. Any submissions turned in during September or October will be turned away and will the committee will request they "stew" their idea some more. The committee will then review the submissions. If the CSC decides that they would like to see your competition in the next year's schedule, they will privately contact you. However, the results will not be announced to the public until December.
DECEMBER:
The CSC announces the official schedule for the next year's ICS and TAFI Season. The announcement will happen in early or mid December.
CSC Submission Requirements:
All proposals to the CSC must include the following:
- An introduction.
- A logo.
- An example of a challenge.
- 15-20 sentences about how your competition would add to the WDWMagic community.
- Competition Rules
- How many players would be permitted.
- Describe your competition.
- Would you judge and host by yourself or with others?
- If so, who?
- Anything else that you think will help the CSC choose your competition!
-=+=-
Post your feedback below!
englanddg
One Little Spark...
<hands out complimentary dole whips and floats>
Perhaps we should start with what smaller comps people are willing to do?
@Sam4D23 mentioned he'd be interested to see Around the World in 30 Days come back, as would I. If he's game, I'm willing to co-host that with him, and I'm flexible on time as long as it doesn't overlap with SA.
So, that could help us flesh out the minor tiers and shorter comps?
I also think, to some of the points made on the pages which shall not be named, many of them were good and got glossed over with the larger conversation.
One in particular, which is what @DisneyPrincess1993 said a few times, is an inclusionary environment (and this is one I'd like to hear from @DisneyPrincess1993 specifically on, or anyone new to the comps within the last 6 months), what would be considered an "accessible" comp you'd (or someone relatively new, but excited about the concept) be willing to host?
The issue we've run into in the past are comps fizzling out because the host gets busy or gets tired. It's not meant to be exclusionary, it's meant to keep the larger comps going. How would you address those concerns?
Perhaps we should start with what smaller comps people are willing to do?
@Sam4D23 mentioned he'd be interested to see Around the World in 30 Days come back, as would I. If he's game, I'm willing to co-host that with him, and I'm flexible on time as long as it doesn't overlap with SA.
So, that could help us flesh out the minor tiers and shorter comps?
I also think, to some of the points made on the pages which shall not be named, many of them were good and got glossed over with the larger conversation.
One in particular, which is what @DisneyPrincess1993 said a few times, is an inclusionary environment (and this is one I'd like to hear from @DisneyPrincess1993 specifically on, or anyone new to the comps within the last 6 months), what would be considered an "accessible" comp you'd (or someone relatively new, but excited about the concept) be willing to host?
The issue we've run into in the past are comps fizzling out because the host gets busy or gets tired. It's not meant to be exclusionary, it's meant to keep the larger comps going. How would you address those concerns?
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englanddg
One Little Spark...
Not a bad idea at all! I like! It would also help with the "who the heck is this person!?!" aspect of it all.Thanks for the mention, England! Like Space said previously, to have respect as an Imagineer you need to built it; but respect as a person should be innate. I think that we can establish that innate respect to new members by maybe having to introduce themselves in the competition. The introduction can include what topic they enjoy most on the forum, why they want to compete, their experience (if any, although this can be vague and include any creativity in general e.g. they like doing concept art, they like to organize ideas), what they think their strengths and weaknesses are. I think this would help them establish a base and be great for being introduced into the community here. People watching the competition would be introduced to these members and have a basic knowledge of who they are and why they're here.
Being friendly and interested in new members and their work can be a great starter for somebody who is new/relatively new!
Maybe...a "New Member Spotlight" section? Or a dedicated section in the weekly newsletter posted here?
Thoughts?
I will also clarify (and this is completely off the topic), there is a difference between the community at large and TAFI.
TAFI is strictly for organized and rated comps. It does not represent the imagineering forum, only those aspects of the imagineering forum. The forum as a whole belongs to wdwmagic.
The only reason why threads like this are sticky is because the vast majority of the participation in the forum is related to TAFI comps.
I wanted to bring that up, simply to explain the scope of the "Conversationalists" and TAFI, and what these rules apply to. Strictly comps.
Someone is free to start any comp they like at any time (it just won't be TAFI sanctioned), they are free to start any thread they like (like reimagining Hollywood Studios), etc. And, there will be crossover from people who haunt the forums for the comps into those threads...but that doesn't mean that TAFI is in any way a governing body over the threads.
It's caused a lot of confusion in the past, so I just wanted to be clear...not really directed at your response, my mind just wandered. (it does that from time to time when I haven't had my afternoon strawberry milkshake)
It does loosely relate in that we can discuss ideas for the community at large here, but that shouldn't be confused with discussions about TAFI specifically. They are related, but separate.
So, I guess tying it all back together, do you think it should be a community at large "new members hello" section, or specific to "hey, I'm new to comps" section?
englanddg
One Little Spark...
I'll add, in the PML we have a spotlight section that works fairly well to get new members "integrated" quickly into the community.
Basically, someone gets tagged by someone else, and the community as a whole gets to ask the person questions and they respond. Theirs is rather free flowing (but they've also been doing it as a PML tradition for over a decade), but we could adopt something similar?
Just tossing ideas.
Basically, someone gets tagged by someone else, and the community as a whole gets to ask the person questions and they respond. Theirs is rather free flowing (but they've also been doing it as a PML tradition for over a decade), but we could adopt something similar?
Just tossing ideas.
englanddg
One Little Spark...
A lot of the "work on" discussion happens in the comp "discussion" threads.
But, an "introduce yourself" thread is a really nice idea (I won't take credit for it, I merely summarized your suggestion).
Other's thoughts on that?
Flippin'Flounder
Well-Known Member
The discussion threads are hardly ever on topic though
englanddg
One Little Spark...
Prior comps have been...and have not been. They go all over the place.The discussion threads are hardly ever on topic though
Matt7187
Well-Known Member
I really like the intro thread too. I feel like I don't know some of the people around here as much as I should because when I started, there was a lot smaller group of people and lots of them are gone, so I really would only consider myself friends with a few people on here just because I really haven't interacted with a lot of the newbies, so that would be fun for me at least.