Survivor S40: Winners at War

[PUSH]

Rob has talked about it, and Stephen said this came up in Second Chances too. It makes sense. If the final 3 are Nick, Michelle and Jeremy I think we all know who’s going to win.

I think Sophie is very smart, and she is aware of almost everything going on. I wouldn't be surprised if that's how Nick got pulled into the majority group. And I wouldn't be surprised if she tipped Michele off on the Tyson vote, which is why she voted for Tyson. She's got to know that family dynamics can play a large role in the game. Especially in a returnees season like this for $2 million.

I wouldn't be shocked at a Sophie, Michele, Nick final 3. Sophie and Michele would be the two who fight it out. Nick would be the no vote finalist.

 

[artvandelay]

I think Sophie is very smart, and she is aware of almost everything going on. I wouldn't be surprised if that's how Nick got pulled into the majority group. And I wouldn't be surprised if she tipped Michele off on the Tyson vote, which is why she voted for Tyson. She's got to know that family dynamics can play a large role in the game. Especially in a returnees season like this for $2 million.

I wouldn't be shocked at a Sophie, Michele, Nick final 3. Sophie and Michele would be the two who fight it out. Nick would be the no vote finalist.

How cool would it be to get a ”Usual Suspects” edit in one of the final episodes? They could go back and fill in the details and plotting that we’re missing, like Sophie, Michelle and Nick all working together to get to the end.

 

[PUSH]

Another heartbreaking vote. I love Sophie. I think she was playing the best game this season, but I kind of got the sense she wasn't going to win.

1. First of all, was the extortion advantage super boring for anyone else? I thought it was going to lead to high drama, but it fell very flat. There was almost no drama. Everyone just gave him tokens. They didn't even show him giving the tokens back. So who did he leave out? Nick, Jeremy, or Ben? Also, that is WAY too much power for people on the Edge who have been voted out. I love Parvati and Natalie, but they should not be able to control the game like that as someone who is on the jury. Another reason to hate the Edge. And one more thing about that part, the idol hunt under the shelter was not exciting. It was in Cambodia with Kelley Wentworth. She had so much more on the line. It was a real idol, and she was in the game where it could have cost her the game. On the Edge... who cares? You literally have nothing to lose. If someone else sees you, what are they going to do about it? Vote you off? Tell you you can't have the tokens?

2. How did Tony go from winning no immunities ever, to winning two in back to back challenges?

3. Was this a good move for Tony? I don't think so. He just won back to back immunities, putting a big target on his back. Then he flips on nearly every person in the game to save Jeremy. I realize he has an idol now, which probably makes him feel a little more invincible, but wow. Jeremy is a meat shield, but Tony's immunities plus this big blindside move him into the biggest target spot. Not Jeremy. And he did it because Sophie was getting too close to Sarah. You don't think Sarah wants and needs Sophie? You know Sarah. She is going to be furious if you vote off Sophie. That seems to be evident in the previews for next week. So by trying to keep your partner in Sarah, you really took out her closest ally and blindsided her. She isn't the type of person to just forget that. She is cutthroat.

4. Speaking of Sarah, I think she's a very good player. But in her confessionals, she thinks very highly of herself. I don't think she is this outwardly cocky to her fellow tribe mates, but it's a little off putting as a viewer.

5. Even though Sophie was voted out with an idol in her pocket (or crotch), she really climbed the legacy ladder for me this season. I knew she was very smart, and she likely played a much larger role in South Pacific, but she really showed her talent for the game this time. She was the smartest person out there, and she had a role in seemingly every vote she was at. But nobody knew. While I think Sarah is very smart, I think Sophie was the brains of the operation. Sarah was more of the dirty work person who got the blood on her hands. The only reason Sophie was tonight's target instead of Sarah was because Tony and Sarah have played on two season together before. But all in all, I think Sophie is one of the best players ever. I don't think that's a stretch after what she showed she was capable of this season.

6. I wonder how wishy washy Jeremy really was. I feel like that was editing to blindside the viewer. I really dislike how instead of showing the players blindsiding each other, the producers and editors are now just trying to blindside the viewer. As a diehard fan who loves the strategy and loves to analyze the game, it's very frustrating to not have any clue what is going to happen. I feel like this vote was a legitimate blindside, but it doesn't have as much surprise factor anymore because they make it seem like every vote is a massive shocker.

7. Tony is going to need to finish his game off in a Cagayan-esque way now. That's challenging against a newbie group. That's even more challenging against a group of winners. If he can pull it off, that would be amazing.

8. I know there is a lot of season left. But does anybody feel like this season has been slightly disappointing? Don't get me wrong, I have really enjoyed this season. If it ended today, I would probably have it in the top 10. But I feel like it could have been so much better. Maybe that's just my geeky self having too high of expectations, or me being super bummed that the old school players were picked off one by one. But I can't help but imagine how much better this game could have been had players like Parvati, Ethan, Rob, Yul, etc been in the game instead of Ben, Nick, etc. I just don't think, as it stands right now, that this season is top 5 material yet. But Jeff and the players all said it's hands down the best ever. Maybe it's coming. We'll have to wait and see.

9. Here are my new tier rankings for players to win if they make the final 3:

Strong case: Jeremy, Tony, Sarah

Solid case, but needs some work: Michele, Kim

Probably not: Ben, Nick, Denise

 

[PUSH]

I'm reading lots of comments saying this is the best move ever made. If he wins the game, I 100% agree. That move alone can win you the game. But I also think it's very stupid. I don't think it was in his best interest. When you think of the greatest moves ever, you think of ones that have put players in great positions, like Parvati's double idol play. Or the Davids putting their advantages together to take control of the Goliaths. This one does not have that clear advantage. It puts Tony in a very loose group of 4 in a total of 8, when he was coming from a group of 7. Although I realize it's not just a numbers game anymore.

 

[JenniferS]

I’ll go back and read the rest of your post in a mo, but he didn’t pay back Jeremy. His pitch to Jeremy was that he was doing it to save Jeremy’s skin.

The other two, he promised to pay back when he could.

 

[PUSH]

And I think I know why this season is not having the effect on me that a Micronesia, HvV, or Cagayan had. It's because of the advantages and twists. It makes the game far too random. I still love the show and will watch and analyze every single detail until I pass out, but it's a far cry from the glory seasons.

 

[PUSH]

I’ll go back and read the rest of your post in a mo, but he didn’t pay back Jeremy. His pitch to Jeremy was that he was doing it to save Jeremy’s skin.

The other two, he promised to pay back when he could.

Makes sense. I figured it was Jeremy who didn't get it back.

 

[PUSH]

So I responded to a tweet from Martin Holmes, telling him I thought Sophie was playing the best game out there, and I would have loved to see her win. Tommy Sheehan, last season's winner, come out of nowhere and tells me he agrees with me. I didn't tag him or anything, just out of nowhere. As much as IoI sucked... that's pretty cool.

 

[PUSH]

Alright, I know I am posting too much right now, but the more and more I think about it... this was a great episode of Survivor. The strategy was the focus, and that's what I'm all for. I think the EoE extortion thing was a sour spot, and I didn't like the result of Sophie going home... but the strategy was very entertaining. It's very hard to pull off a 4-3-2 vote. I still question whether it was the right move, but it takes someone like Tony to pull that off.

 

[JenniferS]

Not sorry to see Sophie go.
Sarah and Ben can go next, in that order; then Jeremy.

Then Rob comes back and wins it all.

Delusional much, Jen?

 

[PUSH]

Not sorry to see Sophie go.
Sarah and Ben can go next, in that order; then Jeremy.

Then Rob comes back and wins it all.

Delusional much, Jen?

Shockingly, we disagree on Survivor stuff!

Loved Sophie. I think I like her more because I've heard her on RHAP several times. If I was just watching the show, I'd probably be more "meh" on her.

I think Sarah is a phenomenal player, but she's not my favorite. Ben was fun earlier this season as the comedic relief with Adam, but now he's just not fun. He's a grump. He and Nick are my least two favorite out there.

I LOVE Jeremy. I would love to see him win again. Great social player.

I like Rob. This season probably made me like him more than what when he came in. And as much as I love those old schoolers, I can't support anyone coming back from the Edge to win. I don't think you saw season 38, but it was arguably the 2nd biggest train wreck of a season thanks to the Edge. It would have been fine if they had stopped it after the first returning challenge, but the 2nd returning challenge negated all the strategy and gameplay that had been done up until then. I was furious then, and I can't support it know. Even though I love Parvati.

 

[JenniferS]

Shockingly, we disagree on Survivor stuff!

Loved Sophie. I think I like her more because I've heard her on RHAP several times. If I was just watching the show, I'd probably be more "meh" on her.

I think Sarah is a phenomenal player, but she's not my favorite. Ben was fun earlier this season as the comedic relief with Adam, but now he's just not fun. He's a grump. He and Nick are my least two favorite out there.

I LOVE Jeremy. I would love to see him win again. Great social player.

I like Rob. This season probably made me like him more than what when he came in. And as much as I love those old schoolers, I can't support anyone coming back from the Edge to win. I don't think you saw season 38, but it was arguably the 2nd biggest train wreck of a season thanks to the Edge. It would have been fine if they had stopped it after the first returning challenge, but the 2nd returning challenge negated all the strategy and gameplay that had been done up until then. I was furious then, and I can't support it know. Even though I love Parvati.

As you know, I hopped off the Survivor train a few years (not seasons) ago. I’m just here for the Rob, Amber, and Ethan show.

I’ve come to actually like Parvati and appreciate Tony. That’s enough growth at my advanced age.

 

[PUSH]

As you know, I hopped off the Survivor train a few years (not seasons) ago. I’m just here for the Rob, Amber, and Ethan show.

I’ve come to actually like Parvati and appreciate Tony. That’s enough growth at my advanced age.

Do you think you'll stay on for next season? If and when there is one?

 

[PUSH]

Tony got 18 confessionals tonight. That's the most for any player all-time in a single episode, including finales which are multiple hours long with fewer people.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

I don't know if that was a good move, but it was certainly an interesting move. I'm just glad we saw the conversations play out and had a realistic idea of the different ways things could go. Far more engaging than when it's all whispers and the votes just come out of nowhere from the viewer's perspective.

The extortion gimmick was interesting, and Tony's reaction made for good TV, but yeah, that's something that arguably has too much impact on the game. That's something we see a lot now, where the producers don't want a pagong-ing (which is boring TV) so they throw in these game changing twists at just the right moment to have that impact. Is it a coincidence that this disadvantage had the potential to change a predictable 5-4 vote to a 4-4 tie or something else? I think not.

 

[manmythlegend]

I'm reading lots of comments saying this is the best move ever made. If he wins the game, I 100% agree. That move alone can win you the game. But I also think it's very stupid. I don't think it was in his best interest. When you think of the greatest moves ever, you think of ones that have put players in great positions, like Parvati's double idol play. Or the Davids putting their advantages together to take control of the Goliaths. This one does not have that clear advantage. It puts Tony in a very loose group of 4 in a total of 8, when he was coming from a group of 7. Although I realize it's not just a numbers game anymore.

PUSH, this was your post from last week when I said that Sarah and Sophie needed to be split up:

I think that's just how good Sophie and Sarah are. They are massive threats right now, and they are running this game. But they never seems to be a realistic option to vote out. That may easily change as numbers dwindle, but as long as Jeremy is around, I think the target is on him, rather than them. If I were Sophie and Sarah, I'd keep Jeremy around as long as possible. After he's gone, I think a light will shine on them.

So, last week, you acknowledged that Sarah and Sophie were massive threats running the game. And now you're saying it wasn't the right move to get Sophie out. So, my conclusion is that I feel like you're saying some of these things because you loved Sophie as a player.

Bottom line is that Sarah and Sophie were an extremely dangerous duo and the question is was Sarah closer to Tony or Sophie? I'm not really interested in speculating because we don't know. Tony saw Sophie as a threat and he eliminated the threat. Additionally, Sophie had an idol in her pocket which nobody knew about so you can't exactly give Tony credit for knowing about that but at this late stage in the game, you want as few people holding idols in their pockets as possible. Sophie was absolutely the right move to vote out tonight and anyone saying otherwise is probably saying so because they have a soft spot for Sophie and wanted her to win.

 

[BrianLo]

Alright, I know I am posting too much right now, but the more and more I think about it... this was a great episode of Survivor. The strategy was the focus, and that's what I'm all for. I think the EoE extortion thing was a sour spot, and I didn't like the result of Sophie going home... but the strategy was very entertaining. It's very hard to pull off a 4-3-2 vote. I still question whether it was the right move, but it takes someone like Tony to pull that off.

I'm glad you came around! It was the antithesis to your complaints last week. The strategy was all pretty much actually laid out on the table this week and it was really a matter of will Jeremy concede in the end or not. But - I would definitely say this was NOT a blindside the viewer episode. It was a let the viewer into the blindside and see if it will stick thing. We knew where every vote was coming from.

But I feel the pain for Sophie!

This episode could have been named 'Tony'. Tony deserves tons of props. He really kept himself low key for way longer than any of us (maybe even him) thought was possible and that moved him into a very choice position in now the third act of the game.

As of technically this very moment, a three way finale between Sarah, Tony and Jeremy, I'd actually say Tony may has played the best game. Of course it won't be so great if his sudden rise to power was too early.

I know this will come as a big blow to Sarah - but Sarah and Tony are still destined for the finale if they can both accept they are really trying to out-game one another. That was actually the subtle theme of the episode, Sarah started by implying to the viewer why she was playing a better game than Tony - then the rest of the narrative of the episode flipped the script. An Idol, a social move to get himself out of a tight spot, an immunity win and a one-man orchestrated blindside of what many of us actually feel was the top player this season.

Tony and ultimately Sarah's biggest barrier will be Sarah's ego coming into this next few episodes. Keeping Jeremy was very important to keep Tony longer term. Eliminating Sophie de-threatens Sarah. Sarah was always going to get blindsided before Sophie if players (other than Tony) had the chance.


Like everyone else's sentiments; Ben and Nick are totally residual pawns. But I'm pleased Dani, Wendell and Adam have all been taken out and Michelle and Sophie really rose to the occasion. A totally deserving player is in line to win this, even if we all didn't get our wish that Parvarti would be at the top with a trail of hilarious deceit.

 

[BrianLo]

EoE needs to activate when they are down to 7 to plump back to 8. Like I said pre-season. This final 6 business is way too late. I hope they learned their lesson from Chris, but fear they didn't.

 

[PUSH]

PUSH, this was your post from last week when I said that Sarah and Sophie needed to be split up:



So, last week, you acknowledged that Sarah and Sophie were massive threats running the game. And now you're saying it wasn't the right move to get Sophie out. So, my conclusion is that I feel like you're saying some of these things because you loved Sophie as a player.

Bottom line is that Sarah and Sophie were an extremely dangerous duo and the question is was Sarah closer to Tony or Sophie? I'm not really interested in speculating because we don't know. Tony saw Sophie as a threat and he eliminated the threat. Additionally, Sophie had an idol in her pocket which nobody knew about so you can't exactly give Tony credit for knowing about that but at this late stage in the game, you want as few people holding idols in their pockets as possible. Sophie was absolutely the right move to vote out tonight and anyone saying otherwise is probably saying so because they have a soft spot for Sophie and wanted her to win.

From many people's perspectives, it makes sense to take out Sophie. Jeremy and Michele especially. But does Tony's reasoning really make sense? His logic was that Sarah will come to him if he takes out Sophie. Does Sarah really seem like a player to take that easily? No, she's going to be furious with Tony. You even saw that in next week's previews. We've seen tension between Sarah and Tony already this season, and this will just add fuel to the fire.

Now, if Tony's reasoning is that Sophie and Sarah were running the game, and he wanted to take control... that's totally different. But that was not his reasoning. You can argue that his moved benefits Jeremy and Michele the most out of this, and I think that is hard to argue against. Jeremy and Michele could go so many ways now. They could get back with Kim and Denise. They could go with Sarah. They could go with Tony. I think Tony's move takes power away from him, Sarah, and Sophie, and puts it in the hands of people he hasn't worked with up until this point.

Again, it's not a numbers game as much as it used to be, but Tony really has no close ally anymore after blindsiding Sarah like that.

 

[PUSH]

I'm glad you came around! It was the antithesis to your complaints last week. The strategy was all pretty much actually laid out on the table this week and it was really a matter of will Jeremy concede in the end or not. But - I would definitely say this was NOT a blindside the viewer episode. It was a let the viewer into the blindside and see if it will stick thing. We knew where every vote was coming from.

I don't think I organized my thoughts very well in my original post. This was NOT a blindside for the viewer. Those thoughts were more based on previous episodes/seasons. I really appreciated the straight forward strategy in this episode.

I think the thing about this episode, is it really was a tale of two halves. The first half of the episode was a complete flop for me. I really hated the extortion advantage. I thought it gave WAY too much power to those on the jury. I also thought it was pretty boring. All Tony did was ask for fire tokens, and the players gave them over. The search for the advantage on the Edge was also boring. There's literally no risk for Natalie and Parvati to get caught. And we already saw this in Cambodia with more risk with Kelley Wentworth. The extortion advantage is a contender for the worst advantage ever IMO.

But the second half of the episode is where this episode really stood out. If we could have just the second half of the episode, it would without a doubt have been the best one of the season. Having a Tribal Council with no whispering or moving around was fantastic.