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Survivor 44 Discussion Thread
- Thread starter PUSH
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Jedijax719
Well-Known Member
Yes it is true. Very sad. 62 is way too young. Keith was a great guy!
That was a much better episode than last week. Unfortunately, I still wish we had more of the strategy and social dynamics than the challenge. It always feels like the strategy is glossed over. They can also shorten Tribal Council to 5 minutes, because nobody actually says anything anyway. Every week it's ten minutes of the same non-answers. But as a whole, this episode was solid.
I was distracted during the strategy scenes, so I may have missed something. But I'm not sure why Carson and Yam Yam voted for Frannie, while Carolyn voted for Brandon. Was that intentional? Will we find out? These are the holes that we're missing. I know we get a lot of these answers in flashbacks during the subsequent episodes, but I would rather have them in the actual episode like we've had before. The flashbacks were fun when they were first introduced, but they're a little overused now. I'd rather have the "Previously on Survivor" segments again.
I really like the Three Stooges. They're a lot of fun, and I hope they go far together. I did enjoy Heidi being more of a narrator this episode. She could be a player down the stretch here. She seems like she is savvy enough as a strategist and a social player.
And not to jynx it, but we have more women in the game than men! It's crazy!
I was distracted during the strategy scenes, so I may have missed something. But I'm not sure why Carson and Yam Yam voted for Frannie, while Carolyn voted for Brandon. Was that intentional? Will we find out? These are the holes that we're missing. I know we get a lot of these answers in flashbacks during the subsequent episodes, but I would rather have them in the actual episode like we've had before. The flashbacks were fun when they were first introduced, but they're a little overused now. I'd rather have the "Previously on Survivor" segments again.
I really like the Three Stooges. They're a lot of fun, and I hope they go far together. I did enjoy Heidi being more of a narrator this episode. She could be a player down the stretch here. She seems like she is savvy enough as a strategist and a social player.
And not to jynx it, but we have more women in the game than men! It's crazy!
Jedijax719
Well-Known Member
@PUSH I was going to jump in here and ask the same question. Danny's move was smart because I figured it would build trust with Yam, Carson, and Carolyn. However, then Yam and Carson vote for Frannie. My assumption is that if the move did not work and backfired, they'd still have trust in Brandon and his group. So they chose to play the middle. If Frannie goes, they can still work with Brandon. But if Brandon goes, they can lure in Frannie and Danny and work with them. However, since they DID vote for Frannie, the question is whether Danny and Frannie feel they can trust Yam and Carson.
But I guess since Danny is so bent on eliminating Rotu, they just assumed he'd be on their side for at least a few votes. Not sure. But I don't think they had full faith and trust that Danny would play his idol for Frannie. Whatever the case may be, I do think that both Carson and Yam and very smart and did what they did with full purpose. Carolyn just went with Danny and Heidi's vote, ASSUMING Yam and Carson would do the same.
BUT I could be 100% wrong and Yam and Carson could have legitimately have been surprised and messed up. I do hope we get a good explanation for Yam and Carson's move since they've both been stars and pivotal to this season.
But I guess since Danny is so bent on eliminating Rotu, they just assumed he'd be on their side for at least a few votes. Not sure. But I don't think they had full faith and trust that Danny would play his idol for Frannie. Whatever the case may be, I do think that both Carson and Yam and very smart and did what they did with full purpose. Carolyn just went with Danny and Heidi's vote, ASSUMING Yam and Carson would do the same.
BUT I could be 100% wrong and Yam and Carson could have legitimately have been surprised and messed up. I do hope we get a good explanation for Yam and Carson's move since they've both been stars and pivotal to this season.
DryerLintFan
Premium Member
Yam seemed legitimately surprised that Danny played that idol
Wendy Pleakley
Well-Known Member
We're at the point where a normal twist free episode of Survivor feels like we should setting off celebratory fireworks or something.
The pairs twist is good because it gives players a decision that isn't game breaking. Do they play it neutrally and do it random? I think they did so last week. Do they play it strategically and possibly reveal relationship strength?
Survivor SA did it once where pairs were random, and both players were voted out. I think Survivor France does it every season as well (I've never watched). I wouldn't even mind that kind of twist if it was player choice, and they had to choose very carefully who to pair with knowing their fates were intertwined.
I didn't feel short changed by the edit here. We saw the possible outcomes with the final result being a surprise. Well, the episode being titled "Don't get cocky kid" kind of implied whom it wouldn't go well for.
As for the swing votes. It makes sense they would all vote Frannie to make it look like they were blindsided alongside their "allies", but the split vote could be to imply they're fractured and downplay threat level.
Tika did well, but if they flip back and forth like they suggested they might it could be short lived. I get how they might think they could emerge as the majority that way, but I think they would burn bridges doing so. Loyalty is important in Survivor, being unreliable is not a good thing.
The pairs twist is good because it gives players a decision that isn't game breaking. Do they play it neutrally and do it random? I think they did so last week. Do they play it strategically and possibly reveal relationship strength?
Survivor SA did it once where pairs were random, and both players were voted out. I think Survivor France does it every season as well (I've never watched). I wouldn't even mind that kind of twist if it was player choice, and they had to choose very carefully who to pair with knowing their fates were intertwined.
I didn't feel short changed by the edit here. We saw the possible outcomes with the final result being a surprise. Well, the episode being titled "Don't get cocky kid" kind of implied whom it wouldn't go well for.
As for the swing votes. It makes sense they would all vote Frannie to make it look like they were blindsided alongside their "allies", but the split vote could be to imply they're fractured and downplay threat level.
Tika did well, but if they flip back and forth like they suggested they might it could be short lived. I get how they might think they could emerge as the majority that way, but I think they would burn bridges doing so. Loyalty is important in Survivor, being unreliable is not a good thing.
Jedijax719
Well-Known Member
Agreed about Tika flipping and flopping. They need to now pick a side and stick with it, hopefully building up to gaining a majority.
Wendy Pleakley
Well-Known Member
Agree with the perception of being followers. They're managing threat level really well, maybe intentionally?
Carson suffers from talking too much, but seems well positioned. Carolyn is being underestimated and is the only (?) player to have an idol that she has kept a secret. They both have Yam Yam as a potential shield if he's seen as the biggest social threat.
And shout out to Carolyn screaming in the net while Carson barely whispers instructions to her. Funny stuff.
Carson suffers from talking too much, but seems well positioned. Carolyn is being underestimated and is the only (?) player to have an idol that she has kept a secret. They both have Yam Yam as a potential shield if he's seen as the biggest social threat.
And shout out to Carolyn screaming in the net while Carson barely whispers instructions to her. Funny stuff.
This was another good episode. And the reason why is we've been allowed to see the alliances and relationships between the players. The last two votes were pretty "straight forward" as far as modern day Survivor goes, and they've been great. I've been able to understand and follow the moves.
I will say, I'm a little disappointed we don't get to see Jamie use her fake idol now that Kane went home with it. But overall I'm happy we have lost two more advantages/gimmicks. Now we just have two idols that only the holders know about (Carolyn and Heidi). And I'm super happy those are the two players who have them.
My Heidi stock has been rising a lot post-merge. She seems in control and in the know of every vote. I think she's a sleeper as a winner. She's playing a very strong game.
I am totally over the rice negotiations, though. They weren't fun in season 41, and they haven't been fun since. They aren't even a negotiation when Jeff blatantly says he needs four people to sit out or it's not happening. Just give them rice at the beginning of the season. If it leads to better social gameplay and strategy, I'm all for it. If you really want them to suffer like the old days, make them play 39 days.
But outside of the negotiations, I don't really have anything else negative about this episode. I really loved Carolyn sharing her story with her tribe. She's such a great casting find. One of the most genuinely interesting people they've ever put on the show. I'm so invested in her story.
Now that we've gotten out of the gimmicky Survivor production choices, I'm going to go back to ranking the players. The players are ranked based on their current likelihood of winning should they get to the final three.
Tier 1 (Strong Chance)
Yam Yam
Danny
Heidi
Tier 2 (With the Right People)
Carson
Carolyn
Frannie
Tier 3 (Unlikely without Doing More)
Lauren
Jamie
I will say, I'm a little disappointed we don't get to see Jamie use her fake idol now that Kane went home with it. But overall I'm happy we have lost two more advantages/gimmicks. Now we just have two idols that only the holders know about (Carolyn and Heidi). And I'm super happy those are the two players who have them.
My Heidi stock has been rising a lot post-merge. She seems in control and in the know of every vote. I think she's a sleeper as a winner. She's playing a very strong game.
I am totally over the rice negotiations, though. They weren't fun in season 41, and they haven't been fun since. They aren't even a negotiation when Jeff blatantly says he needs four people to sit out or it's not happening. Just give them rice at the beginning of the season. If it leads to better social gameplay and strategy, I'm all for it. If you really want them to suffer like the old days, make them play 39 days.
But outside of the negotiations, I don't really have anything else negative about this episode. I really loved Carolyn sharing her story with her tribe. She's such a great casting find. One of the most genuinely interesting people they've ever put on the show. I'm so invested in her story.
Now that we've gotten out of the gimmicky Survivor production choices, I'm going to go back to ranking the players. The players are ranked based on their current likelihood of winning should they get to the final three.
Tier 1 (Strong Chance)
Yam Yam
Danny
Heidi
Tier 2 (With the Right People)
Carson
Carolyn
Frannie
Tier 3 (Unlikely without Doing More)
Lauren
Jamie
Jedijax719
Well-Known Member
Big alliances are things of the past. There are mini-alliances (such as Yam, Carson, and Carolyn), but even those don't necessarily vote together all the time.
As Fischbach and Spencer called them, we are in the age of "voting blocks". People vote together with common interests from tribal to tribal and the voting blocks change from tribal to tribal depending on what is going on (perceived threats, advantages, who has been winning challenges, etc.).
As Fischbach and Spencer called them, we are in the age of "voting blocks". People vote together with common interests from tribal to tribal and the voting blocks change from tribal to tribal depending on what is going on (perceived threats, advantages, who has been winning challenges, etc.).
I think the small tribes have actually led to stronger alliances. For the first half of the game, they've only ever had a relationship with the people on their tribes. So no wonder every tribe sticks together come the merge. They haven't had the chance to connect with anyone else.
It also helps keep alliances together when there are fewer people and fewer options. And they aren't casting polarizing players anymore, so if everyone is nice, it lead to less conflict which blows up alliances.
DryerLintFan
Premium Member
I kinda want to see a season where every immunity challenge the winner gets to pick one person from the other tribe to join theirs. Like Survivor red rover.
I think it'd be hard to take the time each episode to showcase the new person joining the winning tribe, when we already don't get much from the winning tribes. We've had kidnappings before, but those were in the old era. But I did enjoy the kidnappings.
Wendy Pleakley
Well-Known Member
I don't hate the rice thing because it does generate some character and strategy talk. The notion that the sit outs could be immune is interesting. Is it something people legitimately promise or just a way to trick or manipulate people? It doesn't make sense to agree to it given the competitors are putting themselves into a potential 1 in 4 chance of going home.
It's also a strategic choice when you have someone like Danny expressing that he personally values competing in challenges. That's a potential lost jury vote later on if you sit out.
I feel like too many characters feel invisible for me this season. Tika has been so dominant in terms of story I sometimes find myself asking, who is that and which side is he or she on?
It's also a strategic choice when you have someone like Danny expressing that he personally values competing in challenges. That's a potential lost jury vote later on if you sit out.
I feel like too many characters feel invisible for me this season. Tika has been so dominant in terms of story I sometimes find myself asking, who is that and which side is he or she on?
Rob Cesternino pointed out that Danny shouldn't have been trying to get people to compete. He should have encouraged it, because it makes his odds of winning even better.
I also agree that many characters feel invisible. And even if they've been on the screens, it's been a bunch of nothing. For example, Kane only has confessionals about Dungeons & Dragons. I don't recall him ever talking strategy or relationships. Frannie also has had a one-track storyline with Matt. And since he's been voted out, I don't know her thoughts or alliances. Jamie's whole narrative has been her fake idol. Lauren who?? Although I'm happy Heidi has been getting more since the merge.
Wendy Pleakley
Well-Known Member
While true, this illustrates the downside of the current trend to focus the casting on strategic super fans.
The show is interesting when there's a diversity of play types. Having people who think challenges are the most important part of the show should be playing. It means other players have to figure out how to play with them and potentially court their vote.
If everyone has the exact same strategy, and they all compete or all step down it's not interesting. Players have to balance a strategic decision (feeling safe enough to go for the rice) against the idea that Juror Danny might not value that choice.
(Focusing on strategic fans is something that seems even more bizarre considering the show is more interested in twists and gimmicks than strategy).
I agree that they should cast all types of players. It makes it fun for strategic fans like me to dissect things. I honestly think we're getting to a point where they're casting too many strategic super fans. It's fun when people play poorly. It's not as fun when everybody knows what to do and when to do it.