Sounds like opposing tribes' fake idols are copies of other real idols.
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Survivor 44 Discussion Thread
- Thread starter PUSH
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Jedijax719
Well-Known Member
They show them on Youtube. For some reason, episode 18 was a shoddy recording and then removed, The others are there.
Just saw the end of episode 20 (have to admit that I often jump to the end lol). The king is starting to unravel quickly.
Wendy Pleakley
Well-Known Member
That's the easiest way, and is reliable. I think you can watch via the 10play website with a VPN as well. RHAP makes them available in some manner as well for their subscribers.
You're missing out if you jump to the end. AU does a good job showing us what actually happens, from George seemingly being outplayed to how he figures things out, and what the options are going into tribal council.
Unraveling? I'm surprised you'd think that. He's in solid control with two very easy targets available coming up. If you're referring to the promos, those mean nothing as they're always a variation on "is George's time finally up?".
Jedijax719
Well-Known Member
I hear what you're saying. I guess I meant more that George is panicking and becoming a little more disjointed while thoughts are being put in people's minds. I suppose the real question is who thinks they can beat George and do they care? And a puzzling question is WHY are certain people (looking at you Gerry and Matt) so loyal and unbreakable?
The promo shows that Simon will out George as being in control and having played the best game and needs to be taken out and does so in front of everyone.
Wendy Pleakley
Well-Known Member
Are you caught up because that was literally the last episode. Simon telling everyone they're pawns and people having none of it. Simon has zero social capitol. Based on responses, people feel they're playing with George as opposed to for George. Then we get George saying it's a collaborative game to Simon followed by a cut to George in confessional saying "of course they're my pawns!" because he knows how to deliver a TV product.
A few people seem to believe they'll take him out at 3 or something, even though we don't know it's a final 2. It was a final 3 last season. A lot I think is the disparity between returning players and new players, which is always an issue in Survivor in terms of lopsidedness.
Jedijax719
Well-Known Member
Has US Survivor ever had anyone as pathetic as Gerry and Matt on their show?
Wendy Pleakley
Well-Known Member
You can't compare the two honestly because Survivor AU is really biased in their editing, in terms of focusing on key characters.
As much as I like the way they show a lot of the strategy and gameplay so you know what is driving the votes, there isn't much mystery because they focus on the characters who make it far and do well.
On a recent season, there was one player who, if not for one wrong move near the end, would have likely won. Instead of telling that story he was basically edited out of the show.
Jedijax719
Well-Known Member
But haven't Matt and Gerry mostly be brushed over? Have they talked about making a big move at the end?
Wendy Pleakley
Well-Known Member
They have been brushed over, but my point is that it doesn't reflect their level of gameplay either way. I think they talked about not taking George to the very end.
While Survivor AU has done an unexpected come from behind winner in the past, they (spoiler alert I guess) really have no qualms about doing winner's edits that make the most obvious outcome of a Survivor US season look like the world's greatest mystery by comparison.
Great Survivor AU players have been edited into oblivion.
Jedijax719
Well-Known Member
Not so sure about the spoiler alert. Maybe it's a case of Vader saving his son from Palpatine.
This episode was pretty average.
I have mixed feelings on the fake idols. I think they add some intrigue right now, but I also feel it's a little unfair to give someone a perfectly made fake idol, along with a note. Then you play the dodo music when they find it. WHAT ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO THINK?! THERE'S LITERALLY NO WAY TO TELL IT'S A FAKE UNTIL YOU PLAY IT!!! Also, someone pointed out on Twitter that this can dilute the product of Survivor in future seasons. Now players will have to guess whether their advantage it real or not. It's pure luck. And you can't create strategic moves based on the advantages, because what if they're fakes planted by production? That's the part that really gets me. It waters down the game and feels icky.
I also need Survivor to bring back larger tribes. 8-10 people tarting out. There's nowhere to hide in a 6 person tribe. I think production sees that as a feature, rather than a flaw. It's not fun to watch someone get backed into a corner with literally no way to get out. That's what happened tonight. And it's not fun to watch every tribe vote out their smallest woman because they need to stay strong to win challenges. They can't risk voting out a strong player, because if they go back to Tribal Council... there's nowhere to hide. Too much of a risk for them going home. So vote out the smaller woman and hope you get at least second place. It seems like the new era is not equitable in that sense.
Outside of those takeaways, I'm not sure there are really any other huge takeaways at this point. I've felt terrible for Helen and Claire the past two weeks. They both seemed like such strong players and would have been a lot of fun to see deep into the game. They both seemed heartbroken.
I have mixed feelings on the fake idols. I think they add some intrigue right now, but I also feel it's a little unfair to give someone a perfectly made fake idol, along with a note. Then you play the dodo music when they find it. WHAT ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO THINK?! THERE'S LITERALLY NO WAY TO TELL IT'S A FAKE UNTIL YOU PLAY IT!!! Also, someone pointed out on Twitter that this can dilute the product of Survivor in future seasons. Now players will have to guess whether their advantage it real or not. It's pure luck. And you can't create strategic moves based on the advantages, because what if they're fakes planted by production? That's the part that really gets me. It waters down the game and feels icky.
I also need Survivor to bring back larger tribes. 8-10 people tarting out. There's nowhere to hide in a 6 person tribe. I think production sees that as a feature, rather than a flaw. It's not fun to watch someone get backed into a corner with literally no way to get out. That's what happened tonight. And it's not fun to watch every tribe vote out their smallest woman because they need to stay strong to win challenges. They can't risk voting out a strong player, because if they go back to Tribal Council... there's nowhere to hide. Too much of a risk for them going home. So vote out the smaller woman and hope you get at least second place. It seems like the new era is not equitable in that sense.
Outside of those takeaways, I'm not sure there are really any other huge takeaways at this point. I've felt terrible for Helen and Claire the past two weeks. They both seemed like such strong players and would have been a lot of fun to see deep into the game. They both seemed heartbroken.
Wendy Pleakley
Well-Known Member
Totally agree.
Shannon on RHAP summed up the fake idols as the show producers manufacturing something they think will be good TV. There's no creativity or agency given to the players. They hand them a believable, but fake, idol and a note because they want them to use it. They want a certain storyline and they're just handing players the script. We saw one player make his own and that's how it should be.
I do find the strategy of purposely outing the fake idol interesting as it could easily backfire. A fake idol creates implied immunity. That could bounce back.
Same with the forced risk on the episode one journey. Losing a vote in a 6-person tribe is a big deal. Let them have the 'protect' option.
It's a broken record at this point, but the small tribes are what the consider good TV because it avoids the dullness of just a big majority. With idols and shots in the dark every pre-merge tribal is the big "blindside" they want.
I get they want to appeal to a broad number of viewers, but the social dynamics alone can make good TV. That is why many of us have loved Survivor since the start.
The debate over sitting out challenges is interesting and not related to secret advantages. It can be a selfless move to help the tribe but also takes away a key bonding element as was pointed out. It's a CHOICE made by the PLAYERS with pros and cons.
Jedijax719
Well-Known Member
I like Jamie, Yam Yam, Lauren, and Danny the most. The players are silly and erratic. It really is VERY interesting watching AU Survivor and then watching this one. There's nothing methodical in gameplay right now. Danny and Carson seem to the only ones truly playing strategically right now.
But yeah the randomness of the idol will really hurt the show. Why bother trying to find an idol any more? It's basically another form of shot in the dark except you still have a vote.
But yeah the randomness of the idol will really hurt the show. Why bother trying to find an idol any more? It's basically another form of shot in the dark except you still have a vote.
Jedijax719
Well-Known Member
Watched the lastest AU Survivor. Without giving away spoilers, it is PAINFUL to watch people let others explain their case without fighting for their own. They are annoyingly polite (even and maybe especially Nina). That seems to be the difference. If a US player has a different thought, they bud in and get into others' faces, throwing TC into pure chaos. It has made for a less predictable finish and has unraveled multiple power grids, but it's less infuriating.
Wendy Pleakley
Well-Known Member
For me that came down to Simon not knowing how to talk to people socially and/or subtly. Telling someone they're basically useless doesn't get them on your side. It seems so obvious from the couch. Tell Gerry he learned from the best, and now he should know what to do.
Granted, it's not even that simple. Gerry has spoken about his end game.
Granted, it's not even that simple. Gerry has spoken about his end game.
Jedijax719
Well-Known Member
Pinning all hopes on getting rid of someone in the final 4 or 3 is NEVER a good idea. It is an equally a bad idea to get rid of that person too soon. There has to be a balance and you have to have numbers to support you going forward. That's very hard to do if you cut the cord too early. Likewise, anyone can win immunity at any time (look at Romeo in season 42 USA).
Jedijax719
Well-Known Member
Carolyn is very much unlike anyone we've ever had on the show. Kind of refreshing but kinda stressful watching her at the same time.
surfsupdon
Well-Known Member
Carolyn is incredible TV. I cannot get enough of her. So fun, thrilling, and expressive in every way. She is smart too!
Overall casting did a phenomenal job on this cast…so many likable and fun characters!
So glad tonight’s move went down.
Overall casting did a phenomenal job on this cast…so many likable and fun characters!
So glad tonight’s move went down.
Carolyn is fantastic. She's so captivating. A quirky, fun, larger than life character, but also makes intelligent moves. She is also authentically herself. I don't think she's putting on a show like past major characters. I feel like Coach, Phillip and Debbie all understood that they were playing parts of themselves up for TV, but Carolyn seems genuine.
I do worry that this move will "out" her as a strategic player too early. But maybe this is what she needed to do to not become the Romeo of the season. Get rid of the stigma of being a goat before the majority of the tribe can get that perception.
I do wonder why this is the first time we've seen Carolyn and Yam Yam argue. Up until now we've only seen them have a strong relationship, but they tell us that this is a common thing. I was a surprised when they told us those two don't get along.
Going back to Shipwheel Island... it again felt a little dirty. So far this season it's seemed like Shipwheel Island is a place to go to trick players, who have no way of knowing they're about to be duped. Also, we have WAY too many idols in the game right now. I can't even keep track. Before Josh played his idol we had the following players with an active idol:
Carolyn
Matthew
Danny
Josh
Carson
Jamie
And these with fakes:
Jamie
Sarah
Brandon
Literally over a third of the players have real idols. That's not okay. I saw a good point made on Twitter. Implanting idols was fun and exciting when the casts were boring and didn't know how to play. But with a cast this good, it's the opposite. It's a disservice to this cast to throw in so many idols and advantages.
I'm also here for the Matthew and Carson alliance. I like both players. If Matthew can hide his threat level, which is a big if, I feel like he can be a really good player. He seems to have a good social game.
Despite the twists and advantages, I'm enjoying this season. Mainly because the cast is stellar. It's too early to say, but I feel like they could be the best cast of the new era. At this point, 42 still holds that title. But I will already say it's better than 41 and 43.
I do worry that this move will "out" her as a strategic player too early. But maybe this is what she needed to do to not become the Romeo of the season. Get rid of the stigma of being a goat before the majority of the tribe can get that perception.
I do wonder why this is the first time we've seen Carolyn and Yam Yam argue. Up until now we've only seen them have a strong relationship, but they tell us that this is a common thing. I was a surprised when they told us those two don't get along.
Going back to Shipwheel Island... it again felt a little dirty. So far this season it's seemed like Shipwheel Island is a place to go to trick players, who have no way of knowing they're about to be duped. Also, we have WAY too many idols in the game right now. I can't even keep track. Before Josh played his idol we had the following players with an active idol:
Carolyn
Matthew
Danny
Josh
Carson
Jamie
And these with fakes:
Jamie
Sarah
Brandon
Literally over a third of the players have real idols. That's not okay. I saw a good point made on Twitter. Implanting idols was fun and exciting when the casts were boring and didn't know how to play. But with a cast this good, it's the opposite. It's a disservice to this cast to throw in so many idols and advantages.
I'm also here for the Matthew and Carson alliance. I like both players. If Matthew can hide his threat level, which is a big if, I feel like he can be a really good player. He seems to have a good social game.
Despite the twists and advantages, I'm enjoying this season. Mainly because the cast is stellar. It's too early to say, but I feel like they could be the best cast of the new era. At this point, 42 still holds that title. But I will already say it's better than 41 and 43.