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Survivor 41 Discussion Thread
- Thread starter PUSH
- Start date
I'm going to keep screaming it from the rooftops: I love Shan! I haven't felt this strongly about a player in a long time. She is so masterful.
Ricard and her are so similar; it's amazing that they're working together. I don't remember anyone who has played with such similar strategy and mindset, while being in an alliance. Normally they go after each other. There's no doubt in my mind Shan would have done the same thing Ricard did. And they both benefit each other. They are such a perfect team.
I also loved the scene between Shan and Liana. It may be one of my favorite scenes ever in Survivor. It was so powerful. So cool. This is why it's important to have diversity on the show. It changes the game. We've never seen a relationship shown like that on the show. A little bit with Cirie and Michaela, but it was more of a mother/daughter relationship the way it was presented. This just felt different. I am totally looking forward to, and hoping they get a chance, to work together.
Another great episode. I feel like it should have been a boring, obvious vote. The editors did a fantastic job. The Naseer idol find was awesome. It gave me Amanda Kimmel vibes from Micronesia, when we didn't know she had found it until the information became crucial to the episode.
I do think there are too many advantages in play right now, though. If I'm right there's three idols, two extra votes, and now a steal-an-idol/advantage. I am not a fan of that last one, which I've heard called the Go Fish advantage. You're telling people you can't lie in Survivor? It seems like it may become an idol-nullifier situation, where the reaction to it being played is well received because of the circumstances, but 99% of the time it's going to be a bust. (The nullifier worked in DvG because the Davids used it. It didn't work in IoI because it was used against Janet. I have a feeling it will be the same this season because Liana will use it, but in future seasons production won't be so lucky.)
Ricard and her are so similar; it's amazing that they're working together. I don't remember anyone who has played with such similar strategy and mindset, while being in an alliance. Normally they go after each other. There's no doubt in my mind Shan would have done the same thing Ricard did. And they both benefit each other. They are such a perfect team.
I also loved the scene between Shan and Liana. It may be one of my favorite scenes ever in Survivor. It was so powerful. So cool. This is why it's important to have diversity on the show. It changes the game. We've never seen a relationship shown like that on the show. A little bit with Cirie and Michaela, but it was more of a mother/daughter relationship the way it was presented. This just felt different. I am totally looking forward to, and hoping they get a chance, to work together.
Another great episode. I feel like it should have been a boring, obvious vote. The editors did a fantastic job. The Naseer idol find was awesome. It gave me Amanda Kimmel vibes from Micronesia, when we didn't know she had found it until the information became crucial to the episode.
I do think there are too many advantages in play right now, though. If I'm right there's three idols, two extra votes, and now a steal-an-idol/advantage. I am not a fan of that last one, which I've heard called the Go Fish advantage. You're telling people you can't lie in Survivor? It seems like it may become an idol-nullifier situation, where the reaction to it being played is well received because of the circumstances, but 99% of the time it's going to be a bust. (The nullifier worked in DvG because the Davids used it. It didn't work in IoI because it was used against Janet. I have a feeling it will be the same this season because Liana will use it, but in future seasons production won't be so lucky.)
Wendy Pleakley
Well-Known Member
It's advantage-palooza right now.
I don't know how I feel about the 'knowledge is power' advantage.
I think it will have an impact on future seasons of the show. That's a big change, where if you tell someone about an advantage they could potentially rip it from your grasp.
It's odd, and unfair(?) to pair it with the secret phrase thing because that alone telegraphs who has an idol. I said before, and it makes even more sense now, the phrases should have been more subtle. They pretty much scream "I have an idol", at least it does from our perspective. Now it also screams, "I have an idol and you can steal it".
I wasn't clear - does he have to reveal both advantages and she can choose which one to take? So many rules to follow, or not follow, because we're told so little sometimes.
I don't know how I feel about the 'knowledge is power' advantage.
I think it will have an impact on future seasons of the show. That's a big change, where if you tell someone about an advantage they could potentially rip it from your grasp.
It's odd, and unfair(?) to pair it with the secret phrase thing because that alone telegraphs who has an idol. I said before, and it makes even more sense now, the phrases should have been more subtle. They pretty much scream "I have an idol", at least it does from our perspective. Now it also screams, "I have an idol and you can steal it".
I wasn't clear - does he have to reveal both advantages and she can choose which one to take? So many rules to follow, or not follow, because we're told so little sometimes.
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To my understanding, she can ask one of two questions:
1. Do you have an advantage?
OR
2. Do you have an idol?
I do not believe she can ask both. But that also seems very ticky-tack. Is an idol not a form of an advantage? If she asks for an advantage and they have an idol, she doesn't get the idol?
Wendy Pleakley
Well-Known Member
At tribal council Jeff specifically asks if anyone has an idol or an advantage, so it would seem that the show specifically distinguishes between the two, and I presume the players are informed of this.
So this makes sense, she has to ask about one or the other and asking for an advantage would not grant her the idol.
That was my thinking, too, but it just seems weird. The whole thing seems weird.
It's really too early to judge this episode since it's a two-parter. But I'm not sure why they are really doing this? The merge wasn't broken. I didn't get why they said you win your way to the merge by winning the challenge. Aren't they all merged regardless? Some just don't have to compete in the immunity challenge? So really the losers are just going to a typical merge, only without the feast. And the winners just won their immunity challenge? I know it can flip with Erica's choice, but the same logic still applies. I feel like they're trying to brand it as something it's not. It's not a whole new way of doing a merge. It's just expanding immunity. Unless I missed something, which is entirely possible this season.
I'm really hoping Shan, Liana, Danny, and Dashawn can come together. I think that's a really cool alliance.
Shan and Ricard's relationship is very interesting now. They are too similar, and there is bound to be a breaking point. Shan looks to have some other options now. Ricard doesn't seem like he has any. He doesn't seem to be able to build trust and relationships well. It seemed the only person who trusted him was Shan, and now that's gone.
Also, they are really making some of these new twists more complicated than they need to.
Jeff: You have a 1 in 6 chance of getting immunity with this six sided die.
Contestant: Oh, so we just roll it and hope we get immunity?
Jeff: No, you put it in this hole and reach into a bag.
And now tonight...
Jeff: Here's an hourglass where you can turn back time.
Erica: Oh, so I just turn it upside down if I want to reverse time?
Jeff: Of course not, you smash it with this hammer.
Erica: But I can literally turn ba-...
Jeff: You. Smash. It. With. The. HAMMER!!
I'm really hoping Shan, Liana, Danny, and Dashawn can come together. I think that's a really cool alliance.
Shan and Ricard's relationship is very interesting now. They are too similar, and there is bound to be a breaking point. Shan looks to have some other options now. Ricard doesn't seem like he has any. He doesn't seem to be able to build trust and relationships well. It seemed the only person who trusted him was Shan, and now that's gone.
Also, they are really making some of these new twists more complicated than they need to.
Jeff: You have a 1 in 6 chance of getting immunity with this six sided die.
Contestant: Oh, so we just roll it and hope we get immunity?
Jeff: No, you put it in this hole and reach into a bag.
And now tonight...
Jeff: Here's an hourglass where you can turn back time.
Erica: Oh, so I just turn it upside down if I want to reverse time?
Jeff: Of course not, you smash it with this hammer.
Erica: But I can literally turn ba-...
Jeff: You. Smash. It. With. The. HAMMER!!
dmw
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- No
The irony of "the most diverse cast ever" is having a race-based alliance.
Getting back to the game... The merge really was strange. Why does only the winning team get a buff? They are all one tribe now... makes no sense. But, I did like the merge starting off with a challenge where there are two teams, and two people have to sit out. It made for an interesting story line.
And, while using a hammer to break the hour-glass to roll back time does not make sense (why not just flip it one way or another???), I do like that twist. Erika would have to expect to be on the short list to be voted out, so I can't imagine her not using this advantage. I think the twist would really have been a shocker if there was no immunity challenge, no individual immunity idol for the first post-merge tribal and Erika reveals her choice just before going to tribal so there was no time for players to talk. Chaos would reign supreme. Now THAT would be entertaining!
Getting back to the game... The merge really was strange. Why does only the winning team get a buff? They are all one tribe now... makes no sense. But, I did like the merge starting off with a challenge where there are two teams, and two people have to sit out. It made for an interesting story line.
And, while using a hammer to break the hour-glass to roll back time does not make sense (why not just flip it one way or another???), I do like that twist. Erika would have to expect to be on the short list to be voted out, so I can't imagine her not using this advantage. I think the twist would really have been a shocker if there was no immunity challenge, no individual immunity idol for the first post-merge tribal and Erika reveals her choice just before going to tribal so there was no time for players to talk. Chaos would reign supreme. Now THAT would be entertaining!
Crazy episode. There's a lot to unpack. I am not a fan of the time travelling advantage. I'm not a fan of this merge concept in general. I think they hit lightning in a bottle once, but I don't want to see it again.
Erika's decision was the least climactic decision you could have possibly had. Did anybody really think she wasn't going to smash the hourglass? Dashawn has the most polite response ever when Jeff asked him about how it made him feel. Back at camp, Danny's reaction was priceless. Everyone was mad at production instead of Erika.
Shan has been great, but she's gotten sloppy over the past couple weeks. She spilled the beans about Liana's advantage, which is why Evvie is still there. Then she spilled the beans to Tiffany about Sydney as the backup plan, which caused Sydney to play her Shot in the Dark, which could have resulted in Sydney and Evvie both being safe had Tiffany played the idol correctly.
The thing that gets me is how everyone was floored by Xander having the fake idol? It was incredibly obvious to me. Xander knows Liana is trying to steal his idol. She why would anyone think he pulled out his real idol in front of everyone, blatantly showing it off? To me, Liana should have know something was up. I guess either way she found out if it was real or not, so they could put a contingency plan in place, but it still seemed like a massive gap in judgement for Liana, and even Shan who should have picked up on it and whispered to Liana.
Speaking of contingency plans, shouldn't all of the whispering been avoided by having this backup plan in place to begin with? They knew there was the possibility that Xander had passed his idol to someone else. So when Liana asks Xander if he has the idol, if he says no, everyone should have already known to either split the votes, or shift them all to Sydney.
Overall, it was played really well by Xander, Evvie, and Tiffany, but I feel like their plans should have been snuffed with some forward thinking. I know that's a lot easier said in my position, but I feel like the show presented it as if they had all this knowledge, too. It seemed like everyone knew about everything. The only thing that wasn't know was where the idol was located.
Also, I said they should give the idol to Tiffany long before they actually showed it on the show. Again, I know I have a lot more information than they did, but I feel like none of this was as surprising as many people are making it seem. I foresaw almost everything that happened.
Regardless, it was still a really fun episode. It isn't something I want every season, but I'm sure we'll see this kind of stuff a lot more moving forward. I just feel like they are turning this into Sequester, rather than a social and strategic game. I'd love to see this awesome cast play without the obstacles hindering them. I think that'd be more interesting and sustainable as the season goes on.
Erika's decision was the least climactic decision you could have possibly had. Did anybody really think she wasn't going to smash the hourglass? Dashawn has the most polite response ever when Jeff asked him about how it made him feel. Back at camp, Danny's reaction was priceless. Everyone was mad at production instead of Erika.
Shan has been great, but she's gotten sloppy over the past couple weeks. She spilled the beans about Liana's advantage, which is why Evvie is still there. Then she spilled the beans to Tiffany about Sydney as the backup plan, which caused Sydney to play her Shot in the Dark, which could have resulted in Sydney and Evvie both being safe had Tiffany played the idol correctly.
The thing that gets me is how everyone was floored by Xander having the fake idol? It was incredibly obvious to me. Xander knows Liana is trying to steal his idol. She why would anyone think he pulled out his real idol in front of everyone, blatantly showing it off? To me, Liana should have know something was up. I guess either way she found out if it was real or not, so they could put a contingency plan in place, but it still seemed like a massive gap in judgement for Liana, and even Shan who should have picked up on it and whispered to Liana.
Speaking of contingency plans, shouldn't all of the whispering been avoided by having this backup plan in place to begin with? They knew there was the possibility that Xander had passed his idol to someone else. So when Liana asks Xander if he has the idol, if he says no, everyone should have already known to either split the votes, or shift them all to Sydney.
Overall, it was played really well by Xander, Evvie, and Tiffany, but I feel like their plans should have been snuffed with some forward thinking. I know that's a lot easier said in my position, but I feel like the show presented it as if they had all this knowledge, too. It seemed like everyone knew about everything. The only thing that wasn't know was where the idol was located.
Also, I said they should give the idol to Tiffany long before they actually showed it on the show. Again, I know I have a lot more information than they did, but I feel like none of this was as surprising as many people are making it seem. I foresaw almost everything that happened.
Regardless, it was still a really fun episode. It isn't something I want every season, but I'm sure we'll see this kind of stuff a lot more moving forward. I just feel like they are turning this into Sequester, rather than a social and strategic game. I'd love to see this awesome cast play without the obstacles hindering them. I think that'd be more interesting and sustainable as the season goes on.
dmw
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- No
Agreed, crazy episode. The time travel advantage was a no-brainer decision. And, I agree it only works well this one time as a complete blind-side to players. I think it would be cool to have a new blind-side game change in every season. Let chaos rule supreme!
I really like how the producers kept the fake idol plan a secret from the audience. That made for a very fun moment where we were as surprised as the players.
I really like how the producers kept the fake idol plan a secret from the audience. That made for a very fun moment where we were as surprised as the players.
The editing has been great this season. I've really enjoyed the players' back stories, as well as the flashbacks in certain scenarios (I don't like how they flash back to things that happened previously in the same episode). But I enjoyed finding out about Naseer's idol and the fake idol in flashbacks.
artvandelay
Well-Known Member
Sydney’s exit interviews are pure fire. It’s great to hear passion from a voted out player.
Wendy Pleakley
Well-Known Member
I was out of town until Thursday so I got to see the conclusion to the "cliffhanger" without having to wait an entire week.
Which meant nothing as it was indeed the most obvious outcome ever.
You've been sent to exile, a sign you may very well be at the bottom. Do you want to return to a scenario where, if you don't win a challenge, you have a 1 in 5 chance of going home AND there are three idols in play to boot.
Poorly done twist for a number of reasons.
Which meant nothing as it was indeed the most obvious outcome ever.
You've been sent to exile, a sign you may very well be at the bottom. Do you want to return to a scenario where, if you don't win a challenge, you have a 1 in 5 chance of going home AND there are three idols in play to boot.
Poorly done twist for a number of reasons.
I believe Erika would have gone home if she didn't smash the hourglass. Also, a promo picture was floating around prior to the episode, and it showed them standing at the challenge. The winner's buff were on the ground, and the losers all were wearing buffs. This is not the first time Survivor has spoiled it own show.
Wendy Pleakley
Well-Known Member
Flashbacks to Season 1 when they had shots showing which players were still in the game towards the end, edited into the opening credits.
Now they kind of telegraph too much through the general editing.
Good episode tonight, but I'm done with the whispering at Tribal Council. It's not entertaining. Okay... it was a little entertaining that Heather was the one to start it, and she waited until after Jeff asked if everyone was done and then called the first person to vote. That part was funny. But the actual act of whispering is boring at this point.
Shan's stock is really starting to fall. Since the "merge", she's been really off. Her premerge game was pretty flawless, but she isn't doing a great job of maneuvering people. Even though I do think Deshawn was a little bit of a baby at Tribal Council, Shan still has to recognize that he will react that way. But Deshawn also has to recognize that this is how Survivor works sometimes, and Shan is loyal to him and is trying to get him further.
I do think Shan's performance is taking a hit because of starvation, and I don't think that's fun to watch. Yes, it's fun to have some of the survival aspect back and the drama that it brings (Ricard and the papaya), but it's not fun to see gameplay suffer because of they are so deprived of food. I come to watch good gameplay. If that means giving them a cup of rice a day, cool with me.
Speaking of... Ricard should not have taken the papaya. He tweeted that he had never had papaya before that moment, and he actually found out he's allergic to it.
Heather also saw a spike in screen time. David Bloomberg had a fantastic tweet:
It's just funny because her purple edit has become a running joke this season. But really, she was in a good position to go far (however, never going to win), but now she put a target on herself for ultimately nothing.
Also, through all the whispering the editors intentionally left out any conversation about what was actually going to happen, which is annoying. As a viewer and fan, I want to know the thought process and strategy. Give me the options that are on the table, but don't tell me which is going to happen. That's how it works. It's not fun when you present only one possibility that doesn't happen and leave the rest to mystery that we have to find out through exit interviews. It frustrates me that this happens so often. Give us the options!
Shan's stock is really starting to fall. Since the "merge", she's been really off. Her premerge game was pretty flawless, but she isn't doing a great job of maneuvering people. Even though I do think Deshawn was a little bit of a baby at Tribal Council, Shan still has to recognize that he will react that way. But Deshawn also has to recognize that this is how Survivor works sometimes, and Shan is loyal to him and is trying to get him further.
I do think Shan's performance is taking a hit because of starvation, and I don't think that's fun to watch. Yes, it's fun to have some of the survival aspect back and the drama that it brings (Ricard and the papaya), but it's not fun to see gameplay suffer because of they are so deprived of food. I come to watch good gameplay. If that means giving them a cup of rice a day, cool with me.
Speaking of... Ricard should not have taken the papaya. He tweeted that he had never had papaya before that moment, and he actually found out he's allergic to it.
Heather also saw a spike in screen time. David Bloomberg had a fantastic tweet:
It's just funny because her purple edit has become a running joke this season. But really, she was in a good position to go far (however, never going to win), but now she put a target on herself for ultimately nothing.
Also, through all the whispering the editors intentionally left out any conversation about what was actually going to happen, which is annoying. As a viewer and fan, I want to know the thought process and strategy. Give me the options that are on the table, but don't tell me which is going to happen. That's how it works. It's not fun when you present only one possibility that doesn't happen and leave the rest to mystery that we have to find out through exit interviews. It frustrates me that this happens so often. Give us the options!
dmw
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- No
I love it when the person most likely to be voted off next wins immunity! Maybe I just love chaos...
Shan is toast - that is my prediction. She is too openly pushy and we've seen that pushy people only go so far. She has to learn to be more subtle. Her alliance of four will be no more.
I agree that the editing of tribal this time was bad. Last week was a great surprise with the fake idol. This week... meh. Not impressed. Left me wondering where that came from, especially looking at the votes at the end.
Xander... dude! You knew to look for something on the bench, but did not look hard enough.
There is too much of the "tell me how to vote" just to make it to the next round. Time for a big move. Choose allies carefully. A top contender has got to go. Shan, the tribe has spoken. Time for you to go.
Shan is toast - that is my prediction. She is too openly pushy and we've seen that pushy people only go so far. She has to learn to be more subtle. Her alliance of four will be no more.
I agree that the editing of tribal this time was bad. Last week was a great surprise with the fake idol. This week... meh. Not impressed. Left me wondering where that came from, especially looking at the votes at the end.
Xander... dude! You knew to look for something on the bench, but did not look hard enough.
There is too much of the "tell me how to vote" just to make it to the next round. Time for a big move. Choose allies carefully. A top contender has got to go. Shan, the tribe has spoken. Time for you to go.