Survivor 41 Discussion Thread

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I am so excited to be creating a new Survivor thread! It's been over a year since we last saw a new episode of Survivor on our TVs, but Survivor 41 is officially slated to return in the fall! This thread will be dedicated to that season. Rumors and leaks have been dropping on the season, so if you don't want to know anything about the season until CBS officially releases the information, check back closer to September.

I am so pumped, and I can hardly wait! This is a reward with all the fixin's!

 

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Here is a rundown of all the rumors, leaks, and about Survivor 41 that are relevant right now...

1. Survivor will drop the themes in the titles and go to just numbers. For example, next season will be called Survivor 41, then Survivor 42, etc. It's likely returnee seasons could still have themes.
2. Seasons 41 and 42 will definitely be shortened from the original 39 days. It's rumored that they will be 29 days.
3. Season 41 will have three tribes of 6.
4. Here is the rumored cast for Survivor 41:
   1. 

I am so ready to get these people on my screen!

Most of these rumors come from Martin Holmes on Twitter.

 

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Twenty-one years ago today, the world witnessed Sonja Christopher become the first person ever voted out of Survivor. The rest is history. Happy birthday, Survivor!

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

On a semi-related note, Survivor South Africa just premiered and I need to track down a copy of the first episode...

 

[JPPT1974]

Two Canadians in the rumored cast there!

 

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The Survivor 41 logo. Isn't it beautiful?

 

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I'm rewatching Ghost Island right now, and I just finished the merge episode. That has to be one of the best merge episodes of all time. The Dom/Chris buildup is great. It's too bad the rest of the season isn't great. I'm struggling to get through this one. There's very little character development. Through the merge episode, the only people we really know are Kellyn, Dom, Wendell, and Chris. Donathan a little bit. The rest might as well be extras. But I do have to say, Kellyn is a very underrated figure in Survivor. She's a fantastic narrator. I hope she comes back some day.

 

[artvandelay]

I'm rewatching Ghost Island right now, and I just finished the merge episode. That has to be one of the best merge episodes of all time. The Dom/Chris buildup is great. It's too bad the rest of the season isn't great. I'm struggling to get through this one. There's very little character development. Through the merge episode, the only people we really know are Kellyn, Dom, Wendell, and Chris. Donathan a little bit. The rest might as well be extras. But I do have to say, Kellyn is a very underrated figure in Survivor. She's a fantastic narrator. I hope she comes back some day.

Favorite part of the episode is when Dom votes and does a great stage whisper of “Chris”

 

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Favorite part of the episode is when Dom votes and does a great stage whisper of “Chris”

I remembered Wendell's voting confessional, but I completely forgot about Dom's. I literally laughed out loud at it, and I went back to watch it again. I forgot how fun Dom is to watch on TV, too. Survivor lore has painted him as this excellent gameplayer and strategist, which he is, but forgotten is how entertaining he is.

 

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I've picked up the pace with my Ghost Island rewatch, and I have to say that the post merge is much more interesting than the premerge. There are still too many dud characters, but the strategy and interactions are actually pretty fun to watch. It's definitely better than I remember. I think it actually may be better on a rewatch than when you initially watch it. You know the outcome, and while it's predictable that Wendell or Dom wins, it's really interesting to see how they got there.

I have the finale yet to go, so I'll post my full reaction to my rewatch when I'm finished as I've done in the past.

 

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I finished the Ghost Island finale! Overall, this season was much better on a rewatch than watching in real time. It's much more enjoyable to know the outcome and be able to pay attention to the masterful games Wendell and Dom played. While we all pretty much knew Dom and Wendell were going to win when watching in real time, it took away from the experience. On the first watch, you're more trying to figure out who will win, rather than paying attention to the intricacies of their games.

When I watched this season the first time, I was more on Team Domenick. I understood why Wendell won, but slightly leaned toward Dom. I still hold that position. But there really isn't much separation. I think I just enjoy Domenick more from a TV perspective. I imagine if I was living on the island with them, it may be a different choice. You can't go wrong with either player.

I also paid close attention to Laurel's game. I'm not sure there was a way for her to get to the end without sticking with Dom and Wendell. I can't blame her for sticking with them. She's a very logical player, and logically she knew she didn't have another choice. I would not mind seeing her play again in different circumstances.

As much as I love Kellyn, she really had some bad reads. She was too trusting in her allies. I think if she were to come back, she'd learn from her mistakes and do pretty well.

I feel like Chelsea really got a raw deal. She was one of the most purple edits ever, but she seemed to have intelligent thoughts and strategies while speaking to her alliance around camp. She also did really well in the challenges. She did not deserve to be purple.

Michael is a pretty good player. He was one of the few people to demonstrate a strong understanding of what's happening in the game, who wasn't named Domenick, Wendell, or Laurel. I would love to see him play again.

The premerge to this season was pretty bad in hindsight. I remember thinking the premerge characters were amazing. And while I enjoyed Stephanie and Morgan, the rest wouldn't have added much to the post merge. Bradley's story ended nicely. Jacob was more annoying than interesting. But if I were to bring back one premerge boot in Survivor history, it would be Stephanie Johnson. I loved her the first time, and I love her upon a second watch.

Ghost Island as a concept really didn't bother me as much this time around. It didn't really take hold of the narrative and storyline like I remember it doing. It was more of a quick pause from the main action that replaced idol hunts. It was actually a little refreshing not to see the idol hunts every episode. I'm not saying I want Ghost Island back, but it wasn't as bad in hindsight.

I have to continue to say I hate the final Tribal Council format these days. I want to hear from all the jurors, and with the new format it lets a few people run the whole show. I'm sure they edit things out, but I miss the old question and answer format.

In summary, this season is pretty rewatchable starting at the merge. The premerge is a huge drag, which lowers its ranking. I would love to see Domenick, Kellyn, Michael and Stephanie back. I wouldn't mind having Laurel back, but I won't be pounding on that door like I would the other three.

This season ranks 27 out of 40 for me. I previously had it ranked at 37th. I am still going to rewatch 37-40 at some point, so I will make final adjustments after I'm all done.

I have 3 players from this season in the top 100 of my all-time player rankings. Out of 591 players, I have Wendell ranked #18, Domenick ranked #24, and Michael ranked #85. Other notable players are Kellyn at #127 and Laurel at #202. I also have Stephanie Johnson ranked at #183. I think she really got a raw deal and could have won the game if she hadn't been put on Malolo. These rankings could change once I finish my rewatch.

I have Wendell ranked #12 in my winner rankings. These are based solely off the seasons the players won, whereas my all-time player rankings are based on all of the seasons someone has played. Wendell is right behind Tyson at #11 and in front of Richard Hatch at #13. These rankings could shift once I finish the remaining four seasons of my rewatch.

Up next... David vs Goliath!

 

[artvandelay]

I finished the Ghost Island finale! Overall, this season was much better on a rewatch than watching in real time. It's much more enjoyable to know the outcome and be able to pay attention to the masterful games Wendell and Dom played. While we all pretty much knew Dom and Wendell were going to win when watching in real time, it took away from the experience. On the first watch, you're more trying to figure out who will win, rather than paying attention to the intricacies of their games.

When I watched this season the first time, I was more on Team Domenick. I understood why Wendell won, but slightly leaned toward Dom. I still hold that position. But there really isn't much separation. I think I just enjoy Domenick more from a TV perspective. I imagine if I was living on the island with them, it may be a different choice. You can't go wrong with either player.

I also paid close attention to Laurel's game. I'm not sure there was a way for her to get to the end without sticking with Dom and Wendell. I can't blame her for sticking with them. She's a very logical player, and logically she knew she didn't have another choice. I would not mind seeing her play again in different circumstances.

As much as I love Kellyn, she really had some bad reads. She was too trusting in her allies. I think if she were to come back, she'd learn from her mistakes and do pretty well.

I feel like Chelsea really got a raw deal. She was one of the most purple edits ever, but she seemed to have intelligent thoughts and strategies while speaking to her alliance around camp. She also did really well in the challenges. She did not deserve to be purple.

Michael is a pretty good player. He was one of the few people to demonstrate a strong understanding of what's happening in the game, who wasn't named Domenick, Wendell, or Laurel. I would love to see him play again.

The premerge to this season was pretty bad in hindsight. I remember thinking the premerge characters were amazing. And while I enjoyed Stephanie and Morgan, the rest wouldn't have added much to the post merge. Bradley's story ended nicely. Jacob was more annoying than interesting. But if I were to bring back one premerge boot in Survivor history, it would be Stephanie Johnson. I loved her the first time, and I love her upon a second watch.

Ghost Island as a concept really didn't bother me as much this time around. It didn't really take hold of the narrative and storyline like I remember it doing. It was more of a quick pause from the main action that replaced idol hunts. It was actually a little refreshing not to see the idol hunts every episode. I'm not saying I want Ghost Island back, but it wasn't as bad in hindsight.

I have to continue to say I hate the final Tribal Council format these days. I want to hear from all the jurors, and with the new format it lets a few people run the whole show. I'm sure they edit things out, but I miss the old question and answer format.

In summary, this season is pretty rewatchable starting at the merge. The premerge is a huge drag, which lowers its ranking. I would love to see Domenick, Kellyn, Michael and Stephanie back. I wouldn't mind having Laurel back, but I won't be pounding on that door like I would the other three.

This season ranks 27 out of 40 for me. I previously had it ranked at 37th. I am still going to rewatch 37-40 at some point, so I will make final adjustments after I'm all done.

I have 3 players from this season in the top 100 of my all-time player rankings. Out of 591 players, I have Wendell ranked #18, Domenick ranked #24, and Michael ranked #85. Other notable players are Kellyn at #127 and Laurel at #202. I also have Stephanie Johnson ranked at #183. I think she really got a raw deal and could have won the game if she hadn't been put on Malolo. These rankings could change once I finish my rewatch.

I have Wendell ranked #12 in my winner rankings. These are based solely off the seasons the players won, whereas my all-time player rankings are based on all of the seasons someone has played. Wendell is right behind Tyson at #11 and in front of Richard Hatch at #13. These rankings could shift once I finish the remaining four seasons of my rewatch.

Up next... David vs Goliath!

Kellyn liked to trust her gut! I enjoyed Ghost Island and couldn’t understand the shade it got.

 

[artvandelay]

I know it’s not Survivor, but one of the greatest reality shows is on Netflix. The Mole, seasons 1 and 2. Season 2 has not been available, except for a horrible version on YouTube. I wish Netflix would reboot the show.

 

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Kellyn liked to trust her gut! I enjoyed Ghost Island and couldn’t understand the shade it got.

I think it's because a lot of fans, especially those of the super fan variety that listen to RHAP, analyze every aspect of each episode for an entire week. This tends to bring up all of the negative multiple times, particularly with the edit. This season really lacks an edit on many players, but that's not as noticeable on a rewatch because you're able to binge it.

Upon a first watch, it was very obvious for the viewer that Dom or Wendell were going to win. And people kept following their lead, which was frustrating. But on a second watch we know the outcome, so we aren't concerned with that. Whereas that's our primary focus the first time around. So when it's obvious what the outcome will be, it's not as exciting to watch.

I'm not sure if any of that made sense... I know what I'm trying to say, but not sure if I said it right.

 

[artvandelay]

I think it's because a lot of fans, especially those of the super fan variety that listen to RHAP, analyze every aspect of each episode for an entire week. This tends to bring up all of the negative multiple times, particularly with the edit. This season really lacks an edit on many players, but that's not as noticeable on a rewatch because you're able to binge it.

Upon a first watch, it was very obvious for the viewer that Dom or Wendell were going to win. And people kept following their lead, which was frustrating. But on a second watch we know the outcome, so we aren't concerned with that. Whereas that's our primary focus the first time around. So when it's obvious what the outcome will be, it's not as exciting to watch.

I'm not sure if any of that made sense... I know what I'm trying to say, but not sure if I said it right.

I understand. I listened to RHAP during that season. For me it enhanced how good Dom and Wendell were. I think the frustration might come from super fans wanting Laurel to make a move, even though that move would not be good for her game.

 

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I understand. I listened to RHAP during that season. For me it enhanced how good Dom and Wendell were. I think the frustration might come from super fans wanting Laurel to make a move, even though that move would not be good for her game.

I also don't think fans loved how Dom and Wendell controlled so many advantages between the both of them. I didn't on my first watch, but on my second watch I'm glad they landed in their hands rather than the other players. Imagine how bad it would have been if it was Angela, Sebastian, Jenna, etc.

Overall the casting was less than stellar, too. Libby, Desiree, Jenna, Chelsea, Sebastian, and Angela were all duds that made it past the merge. Some of that may have been lack of edit, but overall they were pretty boring even when they were shown. I also would argue that Donathan was overrated as a character. I didn't find him that interesting. It felt like he was being pushed as the character we're meant to love. He was supposed to be the fan favorite. But something about him just didn't connect with me.

It was a very top heavy cast that relied on just a few characters to carry the season. It's definitely not on par with DvG, Cagayan, or even EoE or IoI as far as newbie casting goes.

 

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I started David vs Goliath yesterday, and I'm 5 episodes in already. It is such a good season. It's only getting better with age. You get to know every character, which is in large part to no Ghost Island, EoE, IoI, etc. They take a lot of time to establish these characters and make you feel invested in them. Episode 5 is the first time there's a reward challenge separate from the immunity challenge. They should stick to that more often, especially in the early game. I want more time at camp with the players. That's so much better than gimmicks and twists.

I also forgot how many crazy events took place in the premerge. I forgot Pat was evacuated in episode 1. Before rewatching the season, I forgot Bi quit because of her knee injury. I forgot there was such bad weather, including a couple cyclones... one that they had to evacuate the island from. The crazy weather has been so interesting to watch. It throws it back to the early seasons when the environment played a large part and was really an extra castaway in some senses.

I'm sure it won't take me long to finish the rest of the season. I can't wait for so many of these players to come back. There are so many to choose from. Christian is a gem. Gabby is fascinating. Angelina is pure gold. Natalie was a fantastic villain. Mike is great. Elizabeth is an underrated player and character. I never realized how fun Kara is to watch. I could go on and on, but then I'd had nothing to post for my season wrap up. So I'll pause my thoughts for now!

 

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Hannah Shapiro from Millennials vs Gen X is doing a series of podcasts on RHAP called Just My Archetype where she interviews players of different archetypes. She's done "The Nerd" with Christian, "The Bubbly Blonde Farm Girl" with Andrea, and now she's doing a double episode called "As a Mom" with Julie Rosenberg and Denise Stapley.

I'm about 30 minutes into the podcast, and Julie shared her casting story. It really is crazy. She originally saw Borneo and knew she wanted to apply after the first episode. By the time she had applied, season 2 had already been cast, so she was going for season 3. She said 100,000 video tapes were sent in, and she was one of the 1,000 to be called to LA for casting. When she went to her casting call, the man who went before her has brown curly hair, who she later recognized as Ethan upon watching the season. After her casting call, she was very confident about how it went. She eventually got down to the top 50, and upon further casting meetings, she was pretty much told she was going to be on the show. However, a little later she got called and was told sorry, she did not make the cut. This was her dream, and she was pretty upset. She decided to go to Spain for a week right after to get away. She spent the week there, and then flew back. At baggage claim she checked her old brick-like cell phone that she hadn't been able to use until that point. When she checked it, she had about 30 missed calls and voicemails from casting saying they didn't like enough of the top 50 and to give them a call back right away. So at baggage claim she called her casting person, but was told it was too late and the spot had already been filled.

However, they wanted her to apply for a different show that hadn't aired yet called The Amazing Race. So she went to find a partner, an ex-boyfriend because she thought that'd be interesting. They got flown to New York City for casting, but during casting 9/11 happened. Production didn't know what to do. They had everyone in NY, but didn't know how to get them home because flights were cancelled, and nobody was supposed to know where these people were. Since they couldn't do anything, they decided to go ahead with casting as if the show was going to happen. At that point her ex-boyfriend had a girlfriend at home, and Julie said he just wanted to leave. Julie said she felt like he sabotaged the casting interviews and made it very clear he didn't want to be there. So they didn't get on the show.

She didn't apply again until about the Philippines, and eventually made it on the Edge of Extinction. As far as Survivor goes, she thinks Kelly Goldsmith took her spot in Africa because at the time, Julie's last name was Goldsmith.

What a crazy story!

 

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I'm currently watching the final 7 episode of DvG. The immunity challenge is balancing balls on the disc. Jeff absolutely loves commentating this challenge. A couple key quotes:

"Angelina's balls separating, hanging on opposite sides of the disc. That is a dangerous spot to be."
"Angelina's balls drop."
"Which is worse? Balls separating or balls clanging together? Both give you that uncomfortable feeling... (slight pause)... in this challenge."

Once Jeff comments on how Davie's balls drop, you can see Kara and Angelina laughing on the bench.

 

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I finished my David vs Goliath rewatch!

As I watched it, my #1 thought was about how good of a game Mike played. I totally get why Nick won. He played a really good game. But Mike played a flawless game IMO. He played the "old school" game. He had an amazing social game. As Kara pointed out it was the one she thought she was coming in to player. He didn't rely on idols or advantages. Aside from the votes altered by idols and advantages, Mike knew what the outcome of every vote was going to be. He orchestrated them without seeming like he was the mastermind. Maybe that was his one flaw. He didn't take enough of the credit. But he had very solid alliances with everyone in the final 7. Nick's Final Tribal Council performance was better, but Nick is a lawyer. That's what he does. At the time I thought Nick played the better game, but upon a rewatch I think Mike did.

Again Nick was really good. He deserved the win. But he was left out of a handful of votes. I also think he got lucky that he swapped to a tribe with Angelina and Mike. He needed those two to get to the end. He didn't have another path. Mike had several paths. I also forgot how much of a sore loser Nick was after the Carl and Davie votes. There's mad, but then there's crybaby mad. Nick was the latter. But he did play the best game of the Davids. He had the most connections of them. He had the best read on the game and of the other players. I just think Mike did things a little better. But in the moment, the natural feeling is to reward the David, rather than the Hollywood star Goliath. I would have likely done the same thing at the time.

I also forgot how over the top Angelina was. The whole ladder idol hunt scene was hilarious. Drunk Mike may be my favorite Survivor moment in quite a long time. He was gold in that moment, as well as the entire finale. But Angelina was just so transparent. Her motives were so clear. She's not very good at hiding when she's trying to manipulate. But it provided a lot of comedic relief this season. Honestly this season as a whole had a lot of comedic relief.

Christian is such a great character. I can't wait for him to come back. I feel like he's gotten a reputation as a strategic mastermind. And while he's no slouch, his greatest strength by far is his social game. He is so good. He was actually too good, which is why he was such a big target.

Gabby is a good character, but after paying closer attention to her game, she really made a critical mistake in trying to vote out Christian. I understand her logic because she isn't getting credit for the moves they're making, but what option did she think she had after that? The only other player she was close to was Alison. And she would have lost her shield, who was Christian. Now ultimately Christian plays his idol and Gabby goes home, but I think she was leaving shortly after that anyway.

Dan is a bumbling idiot. He plays with his heart, and he has almost no strategic prowess at all. But he was entertaining.

The player I was most surprised with was Kara. Especially in the premerge, her game was highlighted. It felt like she knew everything that was going on. Eventually later into the merge she fell off and started waiting for people to tell her what to do, but she played a fantastic social game. I would like to see her return. I think she could do some damage in another season. She'd he underrated, but I feel like she has enough of a strategic and logical mind where she could really run things.

Natalie was TV gold. I don't think I need to say more.

I don't need to highlight it, but the John and Dan votes were fantastic. I will admit they felt better in real time, just because now I feel like the advantages really altered the game. But John and Dan didn't do anything wrong during those votes. And as much as Dan was never going to win, he had no idea an idol nullifier was a thing. He played the situation well.

Overall a great season. Some of my favorite parts came early in the merge when they combined rewards with immunity, so we spent a lot of time getting to know the characters. I felt like I knew every single one of the players. There were no duds. I hope after this long pause, production realizes that's what we want. That's what makes a great season. I have no doubt if you threw some type of "island" in there, or the EoE, that this would not be as good of a season. Simply because it takes time away from forming fully fleshed out characters, each with their own narratives.

In the end, this season did not move on my overall rankings. It sits #5 out of 40. My highest ranked player from the season is Mike at #36 all time. Christian is right behind him at #37 all time. And while I think Nick played a better game than Christian in DvG, I have Nick sitting at #42 all time, as I factored his WaW appearance into the ranking. Sometimes future seasons can help, but sometimes they can hurt. I refer you to JT.

Those are my only three players in the top 100, but Davie sits at 112, and Kara sits at 114. So overall a very good cast who knew how to play the game.

Up next is Edge of Extinction! I'm actually a little excited to rewatch it again after knowing the outcome. I remember really liking the cast, but hating the outcome. I imagine knowing the outcome and having lived with that for a while will make the season more tolerable.