Surprise! Red Tier Now Begins Sunday; Downtown Disney Restaurants???

[TP2000]

Are you, as someone who believes restaurants should be open, being hypocritical if you eat at home?

I don't do Doordash. I'm afraid the guy is going to eat my dinner rolls or pick at my salad when he waits at a stoplight in his Corolla.

What's hilariously sad is that the Science & Data on the restaurant industry showed it had a very low rate of Covid transmission, but the majority of that transmission was among the back-of-house employees specifically. Not the hostess or the waitresses or the busboys or the customers. But the guys in the kitchen working shoulder to shoulder for hours on end in a small, confined space.

And that makes sense.

So what did California do? It shut down indoor and outdoor dining entirely, killing the business case for restaurants. And the restaurants that were able to survive got along on Doordash and Uber Eats deliveries; selling mostly to white collar folks who kept their jobs and transitioned to Zoom calls and pretending to work from home. All the Shut It Down Zoomers kept ordering food delivered to them because it's too hard to cook, and then sniffed their noses at the small business owners and blue collar people who lost their jobs and their livelihoods.

But the Covid transmission in restaurants continued because the kitchen staff were the only ones left, still working shoulder to shoulder in the back in small, confined spaces. Brilliant! Science & Data!

 

[TP2000]

It was never about shutting down restaurants completely, but rather to limit the communal aspect of dining at a restaurant in order to limit exposure and the spread of COVID amongst not only customers but also employees. If a restaurant is requiring testing of its employees, as they should, exposure is limited to only the kitchen staff with takeout and delivery only options.

Except there is no Science & Data that proves that. The Science & Data submitted to the judge in two separate California court cases showed just the opposite, that the restaurant industry was responsible for a very small percentage of Covid spread.

And the Covid spread that does happen in restaurants is happening back in the kitchens among those back-of-house employees.

That's the Science & Data. Both LA County and San Diego County had a chance to prove otherwise in court, and they both failed to do so. Because there's just no Science & Data that proves their case.

The decision to close indoor and outdoor dining in restaurants was arbitrary and not based on Science & Data.

If you do have Science & Data that proves otherwise, you need to get it to Sacramento ASAP, because additional court cases are now moving through the courts that sue the entire state and Newsom administration, instead of just taking on a specific county.

 

[Disney Irish]

Except there is no Science & Data that proves that. The Science & Data submitted to the judge in two separate California court cases showed just the opposite, that the restaurant industry was responsible for a very small percentage of Covid spread.

And the Covid spread that does happen in restaurants is happening back in the kitchens among those back-of-house employees.

That's the Science & Data. Both LA County and San Diego County had a chance to prove otherwise in court, and they both failed to do so. Because there's just no Science & Data that proves their case.

The decision to close indoor and outdoor dining in restaurants was arbitrary and not based on Science & Data.

If you do have Science & Data that proves otherwise, you need to get it to Sacramento ASAP, because additional court cases are now moving through the courts that sue the entire state and Newsom administration, instead of just taking on a specific county.

First of all, its not my job to inform Sacramento or LA/San Diego Counties of anything.

However with that said its right on CDCs own findings from September 2020 report that any dining at restaurants including outdoor dining contributes to spreading COVID:

"Adults with positive SARS-CoV-2 test results were approximately twice as likely to have reported dining at a restaurant than were those with negative SARS-CoV-2 test results."

"Case-patients were more likely to have reported dining at a restaurant (any area designated by the restaurant, including indoor, patio, and outdoor seating) in the 2 weeks preceding illness onset than were control-participants. Exposures and activities where mask use and social distancing are difficult to maintain, including going to places that offer on-site eating or drinking, might be important risk factors for acquiring COVID-19. As communities reopen, efforts to reduce possible exposures at locations that offer on-site eating and drinking options should be considered to protect customers, employees, and communities."

Community and Close Contact Exposures Associated with COVID-19 ...

Community and close contact exposures continue to drive the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic. CDC and other public health authorities recommend community mitigation strategies ...

www.cdc.gov

So it was indeed based on Science and Data to close indoor and outdoor dining.

 

[TP2000]

Believing in social distancing/limited contact and having one person pick up food for you and drop it off on your porch is not being hypocritical.

It is when the industry you are paying to operate has Covid cases confined mainly to the kitchen staff.

The Science & Data is very clear; the majority of Covid cases in the restaurant industry happen among the back-of-house staff working in a small, confined kitchen space. This is where Covid spread happens in the restaurant industry...

Covid transmission in the restaurant industry is not out on the outdoor patio where every table is disinfected after every visit. This is not where Covid spread happens in the restaurant industry...

So the person who orders Doordash, thinking they are really doing great work and will Tweet about it so everyone knows they aren't dining out, is only helping fuel the small part of the restaurant industry that actually does spread Covid among its kitchen employees.

Are you truly concerned about Covid spread among lower-class workers? Don't get your food from a restaurant, cook it yourself in your own kitchen.

 

[TP2000]

First of all, its not my job to inform Sacramento or LA/San Diego Counties of anything.

However with that said its right on CDCs own findings from September 2020 report that any dining at restaurants including outdoor dining contributes to spreading COVID:

"Adults with positive SARS-CoV-2 test results were approximately twice as likely to have reported dining at a restaurant than were those with negative SARS-CoV-2 test results."

"Case-patients were more likely to have reported dining at a restaurant (any area designated by the restaurant, including indoor, patio, and outdoor seating) in the 2 weeks preceding illness onset than were control-participants. Exposures and activities where mask use and social distancing are difficult to maintain, including going to places that offer on-site eating or drinking, might be important risk factors for acquiring COVID-19. As communities reopen, efforts to reduce possible exposures at locations that offer on-site eating and drinking options should be considered to protect customers, employees, and communities."

Community and Close Contact Exposures Associated with COVID-19 ...

Community and close contact exposures continue to drive the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic. CDC and other public health authorities recommend community mitigation strategies ...

www.cdc.gov

So it was indeed based on Science and Data to close indoor and outdoor dining.

Someone email that info to the two Superior Court judges and the legal teams that failed to make their case! A 10 second Google search found words that could have helped win their case!

 

[Disney Irish]

Someone email that info to the two Superior Court judges and the legal teams that failed to make their case! A 10 second Google search found words that could have helped win their case!

Again not my job to inform any judges of anything. I'm not a legal expert, nor did I follow the cases that closely. There could have been other reasons specific to those cases and those counties that provided the legal justification for the judge to rule in favor of reopening.

The important thing here is that people on this forum are informed of the ACTUAL Science and Data not the misinformed opinions that you keep throwing out.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Just remember folks that the guy who claims to have figured out the “Science & Data” of SARS-CoV-2 doesn’t know the difference between cold and flu and can’t figure out how to work Google to answer such a simple question.

 

[TP2000]

Again not my job to inform any judges of anything. I'm not a legal expert, nor did I follow the cases that closely. There could have been other reasons specific to those cases and those counties that provided the legal justification for the judge to rule in favor of reopening.

The important thing here is that people on this forum are informed of the ACTUAL Science and Data not the misinformed opinions that you keep throwing out.

Those "misinformed opinions" are actually Science & Data that won two court cases. Cases fielded by two of the largest and wealthiest counties in the nation who had a well-paid legal staff at their disposal. And they lost.

It isn't my "opinion" that restaurants in LA County were linked to less than 4% of Covid spread, and of that 4% of Covid spread most of it was among the back-of-house kitchen staff working long hours in small spaces. That is simply the facts, not an opinion.

How much are restaurants contributing to the spread of COVID-19 in LA County?

Data from L.A. County's health department shows a small percentage of outbreaks have been tied to restaurants and bars. But some have been cited for coronavirus-related violations.

abc7.com

 

[TP2000]

Just remember folks that the guy who claims to have figured out the “Science & Data” of SARS-CoV-2 doesn’t know the difference between cold and flu and can’t figure out how to work Google to answer such a simple question.

For the 84th time....

Cold is stuffy nose and stuffed up head, maybe a cough. I still had to go to school, with Kleenex stuffed in my pockets.

Flu is worse symptoms, with a fever and body aches. I got to stay home from school and watch Let's Make A Deal.

Science & Data!

 

[lazyboy97o]

For the 84th time....

Cold is stuffy nose and stuffed up head, maybe a cough. I still had to go to school, with Kleenex stuffed in my pockets.

Flu is worse symptoms, with a fever and body aches. I got to stay home from school and watch Let's Make A Deal.

Science & Data!

Still wrong.

 

[Disney Irish]

Those "misinformed opinions" are actually Science & Data that won two court cases. Cases fielded by two of the largest and wealthiest counties in the nation who had a well-paid legal staff at their disposal.

It isn't my "opinion" that restaurants in LA County were linked to less than 4% of Covid spread, and of that 4% of Covid spread most of it was among the back-of-house kitchen staff working long hours in small spaces. That is simply the facts, not an opinion.

How much are restaurants contributing to the spread of COVID-19 in LA County?

Data from L.A. County's health department shows a small percentage of outbreaks have been tied to restaurants and bars. But some have been cited for coronavirus-related violations.

abc7.com

Actually that 4% is opinion, because it wasn't an actual scientific study with contact tracing data used. It was basically a poll done by "Eyewitness News".

So nice try, but this shows this is still misinformation being thrown out by you.

I provided the actual scientific study with research done by the CDC that shows infections are twice as likely caused by restaurant dining of any sort including outdoor dining among those testing positive.

Sorry but I trust the CDCs findings over "Eyewitness News" and your opinion any day of the week, and twice on Sundays.

 

[Californian Elitist]

It is when the industry you are paying to operate has Covid cases confined mainly to the kitchen staff.

The Science & Data is very clear; the majority of Covid cases in the restaurant industry happen among the back-of-house staff working in a small, confined kitchen space. This is where Covid spread happens in the restaurant industry...

Covid transmission in the restaurant industry is not out on the outdoor patio where every table is disinfected after every visit. This is not where Covid spread happens in the restaurant industry...

View attachment 531060

So the person who orders Doordash, thinking they are really doing great work and will Tweet about it so everyone knows they aren't dining out, is only helping fuel the small part of the restaurant industry that actually does spread Covid among its kitchen employees.

Are you truly concerned about Covid spread among lower-class workers? Don't get your food from a restaurant, cook it yourself in your own kitchen.

Enough with the "Science and Data" sarcasm.

You misunderstand the concerns of those who are for some things not being available. Is anyone here completely against distanced outdoor patio dining? @lazyboy97o @Disney Irish ?? Again, those in kitchens do not compare to spaces with dozens/hundreds of people confined to tight spaces, which is what we're concerned about. Also, if you've ever witnessed someone picking up a mobile order from a restaurant, you'd know there very limited contact. The food is usually off to the side, the employees rarely let in more than two or three people at a time, the driver quickly gives them the name from afar, grab the food from the side, and head out.

I meant to add that outdoor dining actually can help spread the virus.

 

[TP2000]

Still wrong.

No, that is exactly how it happened. Let's Make A Deal with Monty Hall, it was on about 10am. That was my reward for dealing with the Flu. The homemade soup I could leave or take, no big deal. But Let's Make A Deal was integral to the Flu experience.

 

[TP2000]

Actually that 4% is opinion, because it wasn't an actual scientific study with contact tracing data used. It was basically a poll done by "Eyewitness News".

So nice try, but this shows this is still misinformation being thrown out by you.

The less than 4% was not discovered by ABC 7 News, it was discovered by the legal teams presenting the LA County data to the court.

"...county data also shows restaurants are responsible for just 3% of new infections, a fraction of the cases stemming from sectors that have not been shut down such as manufacturing, aviation and grocery stores."

Judge Sides With Restaurants on LA County Outdoor Dining Ban

A Los Angeles County judge has overturned a county ban on restaurants serving guests outdoors as arbitrary and backed by weak scientific evidence, but restaurants won’t be opening their doors anytime soon.

www.courthousenews.com

 

[TP2000]

Enough with the "Science and Data" sarcasm.

You misunderstand the concerns of those who are for some things not being available. Is anyone here completely against distanced outdoor patio dining? @lazyboy97o @Disney Irish ?? Again, those in kitchens do not compare to spaces with dozens/hundreds of people confined to tight spaces, which is what we're concerned about. Also, if you've ever witnessed someone picking up a mobile order from a restaurant, you'd know there very limited contact. The food is usually off to the side, the employees rarely let in more than two or three people at a time, the driver quickly gives them the name from afar, grab the food from the side, and head out.

I believe @el_super has claimed that outdoor dining should remain shut down. And @Disney Irish seems very pro Shut It Down in general.

But that's not where Covid spread is happening in your Doordash transaction. Covid spread is happening a couple minutes after you place your dinner order and a small team of employees working shoulder-to-shoulder in a cramped kitchen starts to make your food.

If you are concerned about Covid spread, you need to stop ordering food from restaurants.

Even though in LA County the restaurant industry was responsible for less than 4% of Covid cases, the majority of that 4% happens among the kitchen staff. Not your Doordash driver or the cashier if you pick it up yourself.

 

[Disney Irish]

The less than 4% was not discovered by ABC 7 News, it was discovered by the legal teams presenting the LA County data to the court.

"...county data also shows restaurants are responsible for just 3% of new infections, a fraction of the cases stemming from sectors that have not been shut down such as manufacturing, aviation and grocery stores."

Judge Sides With Restaurants on LA County Outdoor Dining Ban

A Los Angeles County judge has overturned a county ban on restaurants serving guests outdoors as arbitrary and backed by weak scientific evidence, but restaurants won’t be opening their doors anytime soon.

www.courthousenews.com

Actually that is an incorrect assessment based on the actually case. And my quick reading of it shows that you didn't really read it or maybe didn't understand.

The overall issue is that contact tracing is still not up to par, really not up to where it should be to truly tell if LA County restaurants are the hotbed of infections. However again given the CDCs study on the matter, it appears they are at least a major factor.

Also the ruling was that the "ban" cannot be for an extended period of time. So in reality they didn't rule against "Science and Data", they ruled on the legal matter of the county and state authority for extended shutdowns.

 

[Disney Irish]

I believe @el_super has claimed that outdoor dining should remain shut down. And @Disney Irish seems very pro Shut It Down in general.

But that's not where Covid spread is happening in your Doordash transaction. Covid spread is happening a couple minutes after you place your dinner order and a small team of employees working shoulder-to-shoulder in a cramped kitchen starts to make your food.

If you are concerned about Covid spread, you need to stop ordering food from restaurants.

Even though in LA County the restaurant industry was responsible for less than 4% of Covid cases, the majority of that 4% happens among the kitchen staff. Not your Doordash driver or the cashier if you pick it up yourself.

Actually your assessment of me, just like a lot of things related to this topic is wrong. I was never for completely shutdown anything. I'm for limiting exposure to the public at large for safety reasons.

So for me all restaurants can and should remain open for take out and delivery with constant testing of their kitchen staff.

 

[el_super]

I believe @el_super has claimed that outdoor dining should remain shut down.

It's not that I am against outdoor dining, and more that I am for respecting public health policies.

Any level of relaxation in restrictions will result in an increase in infections, and my point for the last seven months, since Disney announced a reopening for July, was to make sure that hospital capacity was available to meet the needs.

But sure if it helps, in the spirit of compromise, I will agree with your position that all restaurants should be completely shut down.

 

[TP2000]

So for me all restaurants can and should remain open for take out and delivery with constant testing of their kitchen staff.

The Science & Data we do have on restaurants shows that the majority of Covid spread happens back in the kitchen.

So you want the restaurants to remain open, but only the part of a restaurant operation that exposes the most people to the most chance of Covid transmission?

 

[Disney Irish]

The Science & Data we do have on restaurants shows that the majority of Covid spread happens back in the kitchen.

So you want the restaurants to remain open, but only the part of a restaurant operation that exposes the most people to the most chance of Covid transmission?

Once again incorrect, the CDC has actual proven Science and Data to dispute your claim its a majority isolated to the kitchen.

However just answering your direct question. Exposure limited to a small subset of the restaurant, a few dozen people at most, compared to the potential thousands via opening up the restaurant for full dining. Yes I'd rather have just the kitchen of a restaurant open for takeout/delievry with full constant testing rather than the whole dining area.