Suit: Disney's "Pirates" Movie Pirated

[Indy95]

To suggest Disney should be suing him!!!

That was a joke, by the way. It's called a "sense of humor." Perhaps you've heard of it?

Notice that most (perhaps all) of the movies you mention are based on source material; they didn't have to come with original ideas. The "spark" can be the hardest part.

No story contains original ideas. Everything has been done before. The "spark" that you mention is nothing more than the fusion of pre-existing ideas. Surely, having "attended a writing class," you know this.

As far as being confirmed on the DVD, it would be confirmed if they have documented evidence.

The only way for this to be dropped is if there was no proof it came out before PotC work had started.

Believe what you want, but unless you have ACTUAL evidence to the contrary, I will believe the evidence that has ALREADY been presented. And, since POTC has been in development since 1991/1992, and Ted and Terry have stated (a year and a half before this lawsuit) that this was the idea they first presented to Disney at that time, then I will believe them until I hear contradicting evidence.

I agree here guys, this isn't some cheap publicity stunt or another bad lawsuit, this guy had a film that very closely resembled PotC 10 years before. Names, scenes, and other things were stolen from it, hands down.

But looking at it logically, why would the people making this $150 million movie steal names, scenes, etc. EXACTLY as they were shown in the other movie? Why would they make it easier for this guy to sue their socks off? Wouldn't it be more logical to change ANYTHING, especially names? They're not going to just flat-out copy most major points of the movie. Let's see, who's more likely to steal ideas, a multi-billion dollar company who can hire any writer under the sun to NOT steal ideas, or the guy who made "Attack of the Killer Bimbos?" Hmmm...

 

[askmike1]

Disney already stole the Lion King plot without batting an eyelash.

Disney did not steal TLK plot. The story is very obviously based on Hamlet. Read a little and you'll find out where it came from. Simba's Pride was also based on a Shakespeare Play (Romeo & Juliet...perhaps you heard of it).

There are so many things that make me believe this guy is not telling the truth

• He waited so long. The movie came out a year ago and he's suing Disney now? If I had my story ripped off, I would be seeking legal action right away. Oh but wait, he probably needed those two years to create the 'remarkable similarities.'
• Disney is not dumb. If Disney truely wanted to rip somebodies story off (which they wouldn't) I would hope they would change the names.
• Recent lawsuits suggests that no matter how obscure a matter could be, the person could still win and get money. Case in point, the McDonalds lawsuit. FYI, McDonalds is not the reason why you're fat...you are the reason you are fat.
• A)He wants money. B)Disney is a major corperation. C) A+B=$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Am I without a doubt this guy is lieing? No.
Do I still hope this guy get's bolted into IASW for all eternity? Yes.

-Michael
http://mfw.frandt.com --the new MFW
CODE WHITE: "The Faucet's Rigged!"

 

[DarkMeasures]

For stolen movie ideas. Besides the fact that it is done all the time by everyone, (copywrite your stories, it's the smartest thing to do.)

But you have to remember that there are 6 billion people in the world. Now, the odds for two stories being super similar is actually pretty good for 6 billion. Sometimes itis subconscience when the person has heard the story before but completly forgets and yet writes a similar story. Sometimes, it's a coincidence. And sometimes it is just stolen. I know it was very likely that Lion King Stole from Kimba but then again there is nothing that can be done for that because Kimba's studio no longer exists.

But anyway, I will probably copywrite everything I have done. Infact, my avatar is technically copywrited (not the one currently used), because I had my website and anything placed on your website that is original is copywrited. But, there are still problems. You actually need to go and get the stuff copywrited.

And on note of that, does anyone know where to copywrite stuff as well as the cost?

 

[longfamily]

Helen Keller was a plagerist.As an adult she published a story and it was found soon after that the exact story had already been published 20 years before. For those of you who don't know, Keller was blind and deaf. Come to find out, she was told the story as a child and had forgotten that the story had been told to her before. She "remembered" the story many years later and thought that it was her original idea.

Point is: Sometimes the mind plays tricks. It is very possible that the orgin of the film came from the writers of POTC and was mentioned during conversation and then produced a few years later by Bimbo guy wihout his recolection that this was not his original thought.

HMMMMM.....:veryconfu

 

[The_CEO]

A few years later he makes an apprearance with the claim he invented it?


MMMMHmmmmmm...

 

[TTATraveler]

If this guy made his claim right after the movie came out, he might be more believable, but to wait this long, the claim to me has no merit.

 

[tomm4004]

>That was a joke, by the way. It's called a "sense of humor." Perhaps you've heard of it?

Indy95 - I don't think it was a joke. You distinctly implied that this guy stole from Disney. Nothing funny about that, or anything in the tone of your post. And I do know humour when I see it!

>No story contains original ideas. Everything has been done before. The "spark" that you mention is nothing more than the fusion of pre-existing ideas. Surely, having "attended a writing class," you know this.

Sorry, but to say there are no original ideas is completely wrong. While there are a limited number of themes or story types, there are distinct story points, plots, and "twists" that one can come up without referring to source material. Often people write from their own experiences, and we each have unique experiences. I don't remember the part in the writing class where he told us to "steal" ideas. He did say to write from your own perspective, to write what you can write better than anyone else.

>But looking at it logically, why would the people making this $150 million movie steal names, scenes, etc. EXACTLY as they were shown in the other movie?

Arrogance perhaps. Or maybe because they know that people like you will ask that question and not believe the guy. Or course, for the Lion King Disney were smart and changed Kimba to Simba and changed the lion from white to brown.

>Disney did not steal TLK plot. The story is very obviously based on Hamlet. Read a little and you'll find out where it came from.

I would disagree based on everything I've read. The similarities in plot and in the drawings made my mouth drop. I'd have to confirm this, but I don't recall seeing any references to The Lion King while at Tokyo Disneyland. Maybe they are not allowed to for fear of a lawsuit. By the way, I have read Hamlet (boy, people are being snarky - you must all be Disney lawyers!). The similarities go way beyond the plot. There's the characters, even the drawings look identical. Reports are that Disney had the drawings with them. I find that very easy to believe.

>He waited so long. The movie came out a year ago and he's suing Disney now?

Eighteen months is not long. He had to put together a 368 page document. You don't do that overnight. He would have had to put a lot of research into it, especially concerning the legalities.

>Disney is not dumb. If Disney truely wanted to rip somebodies story off (which they wouldn't) I would hope they would change the names.

Who exactly is Disney? Michael Eisner? Let's say some junior script reader met with the guy. Later they are looking for ideas for PofC and he gives them a couple. "Disney" doesn't know where the ideas came from. Look at Finding Nemo. If the writer did steal it, Disney or Pixar executives may have no idea. They have to trust writers. There is incredible pressure on writers to come up with ideas, and the temptation may be too great sometimes. It's also possible they just didn't remember the ideas coming from anywhere. George Harrison was successfully sued for stealing My Sweet Lord, but they said it didn't do it knowingly. And besides - Disney does some pretty dumb and arrogant things.

>A)He wants money. B)Disney is a major corperation. C) A+B=$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

I have no idea what the truth is, but I wouldn't be surprised if the guy has a case. Keep in mind, this doesn't happen all the time. There aren't 100 guys out there suing Disney over PofC. There's one. One for Finding Nemo. One for The Village. One for The Lion King. One for EPCOT. One for Wide World of Sports. If there was a 100 for each I would say it's a cash grab, but these cases all seem to have merit. They all are people who have actually released their projects or presented them to Disney or Hollywood. Not just a guy who said he had the idea in a dream.

 

[Bairstow]

Disney did not steal TLK plot. The story is very obviously based on Hamlet. Read a little and you'll find out where it came from.

Oh give me a break. Look at this page! Even if you assume that they came up with the idea for doing "Hamlet" with lions on their own, they copied most of the character designs from Tezuka's work and plagiarized many key scenes shot for shot.

If this guy made his claim right after the movie came out, he might be more believable, but to wait this long, the claim to me has no merit.

In terms of legal time, it IS right after the movie came out. It's been less than two years. Do you have any idea how much work is involved in preparing an intellectual property suit against a megacorporation and how long the process takes? For the case to already have been filed, Royce probably began working with his lawyer the day after he saw the film.

But looking at it logically, why would the people making this $150 million movie steal names, scenes, etc. EXACTLY as they were shown in the other movie?

The same reason they stole the idea for the story in the first place: Disney is lazy, arrogant, and knows that the size and power of the corporation is probably enough to prevent the real owner of the story from seeking action. When Disney was working on "The Lion King" they didn't even bother renaming the character "Kimba" to "Simba" until the last round of script revisions, and even then all they did is alter one letter.

Here's another thought: Even if you don't think that Royce has any real-life intellectual claims to the story that was used in the "Pirates of the Caribbean" film he is owed at least some sort of recognition from the screenwriter's guild, and should at least be paid what Elliot and Rossio were for hacking his work. What gets me is that Disney, the same company that sues day-care centers for painting murals that they claim infringe on their intellectual property is totally flippant and downright beligerant about recognizing the intellectual property of others. Apparently intellectual property rights are only worth being inforced when they're Disney's. They're trying to have it both ways, and I hope they get slammed for their arrogance.

 

[PeeplMoovr]

Not taking sides here, but in the link I posted above, he did make this claim at least one year ago. This article was from February of 2004.
http://www.orlandoweekly.com/slug/archive.asp?g=4262

 

[Tocpe]

For those of you who haven't already made up your mind on this case, RebuildtheKingdom.com has some more links and images showing more comparisons between the two works.

http://www.rebuildthekingdom.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=292

Me...I'll make up my mind after I've seen his work.

 

[tomm4004]

Wow. Those pictures are mindblowing. If this guy really did make this movie in 1995 (and didn't get a "whiff" of ideas already in place at Disney) then it really makes Disney look baaaaad. And it may be just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[CTXRover]

If Mr. Mathew did create a "supernatural pirate movie" in 1994/5 like he claims, I'm curious as to how the writers of Pirates of the Caribbean (Ted Elliot and Terry Rossio) got their hands on a film with no apparent name ever listed in the suit and was apparently never distributed. Over at www.imbd.com (internet movie database), Royce Mathew does have a listing of his accredited works, including those listed in recent press articles. Oddly enough, there is no credited film of his since 1991, and no film of any type related to a "supernatural pirate film". Not saying he didn't make the film back in 1994, but it seems awfully difficult to find any proof of its existence until now or how the writers of Pirates would have had access to it.

I would also like to think that if the writers of Pirates of the Caribbean movie did in fact use Mr. Mathew's film for "inspiration" they would have had more sense than to name characters the same or similar names (Will Turner in both, Elizabeth Swann vs Elizabeth Strong, the Black Pearl in both, etc.). Almost seems like a spoof. I honestly don't think acclaimed writers like Ted Elliot and Terry Rossio, the writers of other hit films like Shrek, would be that dumb or lack that creative edge. But that is something a judge/jury will have to decide.

It also makes me wonder when it appears that the comparisons are so obvious that Mr. Mathew has had difficulty finding legal representation up to this point. A claim like this with any validity would make me believe lawyers would be biting left and right.

 

[tomm4004]

Did any article list the name of his pirate movie? What struck me as odd in the comparison photos was the similarity of the camera angles. That's not just from the script. The director himself would have had to have seen the 20min movie, which does indeed seem strange since I doubt Disney has a copy. It could be a spoof, but I'm assuming he has proof that this was circa 1995 and not post summer 2003. It will be curious to see how it plays out. My guess is that we'll never hear from about it again. Either it will be tossed or Disney will settle quietly.

Maybe they'll do what they did with Kramer when he sued over the beach perfume. They could put the guy's likeness somewhere in the Pirates ride!

 

[DisneyFan 2000]

Just for the record, they called Simba Simba because it means 'Lion'. Not because they found a character named Kimba...

Forgot to mention, I don't really see similarties. Do you know how many movies have already shot from those angles using the same props (guns, hideous faces etc..) I find it hard to believe you can sue Disney over such a thing... :brick:

 

[DisneyFan 2000]

I would disagree based on everything I've read. The similarities in plot and in the drawings made my mouth drop. I'd have to confirm this, but I don't recall seeing any references to The Lion King while at Tokyo Disneyland. Maybe they are not allowed to for fear of a lawsuit.

Or (don't laugh, I'm taking a real WILD guess) maybe it's just not as popular in Tokyo as it is in the US and France?

 

[tomm4004]

Or (don't laugh, I'm taking a real WILD guess) maybe it's just not as popular in Tokyo as it is in the US and France?

There was an uproar in Japan after the release of The Lion King. I would imagine that the Oriental Land Company didn't want to fan that fire. (again, I'd have to confirm this. I just don't recall seeing anything myself on visits in 1998 and 2001).

Quote:

http://www.stonebridge.com/DREAMLAND/dreamland.html

It takes hundreds of people to make a feature-length animation, and many of Disney's animators certainly grew up watching Tezuka's work. I wasn't the only one to make this observation. As animation historian Fred Patten would document in a 1995 report titled "Simba vs. Kimba: Parallels between Kimba, the White Lion and The Lion King," the Kimba animated series was syndicated by NBC in 1966 and shown widely throughout the United States until the late 1970s. Furthermore, the nature of animation is such that artists rely heavily on any visual reference materials they can get their hands on, especially when trying to depict the movements of animals such as lions. It would be hard to imagine that they did not refer to documentaries of lions, and--especially since it was one of the few animation films with a lion star--to Tezuka's Kimba, the White Lion.

End quote.

What's really ironic is that Disney presented Spirited Away in the U.S., an animated movie by Japanese legend Miyazaki. John Lassiter, on the DVD, considered himself a disciple of Miyazaki and got into animation for that reason. And yet the guy who made Kimba, also a legend in Japanese animation - no animators in the U.S. (at least at Disney) had ever heard of him or his work!! Isn't that like a classical musician saying they were inspired by Mozart but never heard of Beethoven?

>Forgot to mention, I don't really see similarties.

As for Pirates, I thought the pictures were very similar, and I'm assuming that's not all he has.

 

[DisneyFan 2000]

Do you know how many movies have already shot from those angles using the same props (guns, hideous faces etc..) I find it hard to believe you can sue Disney over such a thing... :brick:

Hmmm hmm....

 

[askmike1]

There was an uproar in Japan after the release of The Lion King. I would imagine that the Oriental Land Company didn't want to fan that fire. (again, I'd have to confirm this. I just don't recall seeing anything myself on visits in 1998 and 2001).

This means absolutly nothing. In fact there is no Lion King Attraction at Disneyland california or Disneyland Paris. The ONLY Lion King attraction is at Disney's Animal Kingdom & it's a show. So I'm guessing nobody like it in California or France?

BTW: Disneyfan 2000, how come you quoted yourself?
-Michael
http://mfw.frandt.com --the new MFW
CODE WHITE: "The Faucet's Rigged!"

 

[tomm4004]

This means absolutly nothing. In fact there is no Lion King Attraction at Disneyland california or Disneyland Paris. The ONLY Lion King attraction is at Disney's Animal Kingdom & it's a show. So I'm guessing nobody like it in California or France?"

Actually, The Legend of the Lion King show is also in Paris.

 

[askmike1]

I stand corrected. However, it is the same show and there is nothing in any of the other 8 Disney parks relating to the Lion King (except for brief cameos such as the one in Mickey's Philharmagic)

-Michael
http://mfw.frandt.com --the new MFW
CODE WHITE: "The Faucet's Rigged!"