'Strange World' Disney's 2022 Animated Film

[CaptinEO]

The world we live in is one in which gay marriage is now legal in many countries, including the USA. Whether people like it or not, films are going to reflect that fact.

I don't get what this has to do with children's films and I was agreeing with you that people are somehow OK with violence for children but not other content.

Gay Marriage is legal and is part of the real world. There are many things in the world and there are plenty of film companies that can actually do justice to these topics. Disney showing a half second of a lesbian couple isn't doing any favors when films that actually cover these topics unashamed have existed for decades.

 

[LittleBuford]

Disney showing a half second of a lesbian couple isn't doing any favors

I disagree. It normalises something that should be regarded as unexceptionable. Just imagine the fuss if Disney had chosen to make it a prominent element of the plot rather than a subtle but touching detail.

 

[RobWDW1971]

We will have another important data point on Strange World and the marketplace demand for animated family films this weekend as "Puss in Boots:The Last Wish" will be opening in the US after its strong start last weekend in a couple of dozen international markets.

With a reported budget of only half of Strange World ($90M) and an incredible Rotten Tomatoes critics score currently at 97% and an equally impressive All Audience score of 93% (vs Strange World's disastrous 40%), it will be fascinating to see how a family animated film without controversy or baggage performs in the global marketplace.

We should also have the CinemaScore by Thursday am gauging the domestic audience's reaction, which we can compare to Strange World's, which was the lowest in the history of Disney animation.

 

[CaptinEO]

I disagree. It normalises something that should be regarded as unexceptionable. Just imagine the fuss if Disney had chosen to make it a prominent element of the plot rather than a subtle but touching detail.

I agree a lesbian couple is inoffensive and not anything to be scared of. I don't know if the half second gay moments Disney does actually normalizes anything. I do know that Disney has leaked stories about each and every gay moment prior to a film's release to get brownie points.

If anything I find it pretentious for Disney to think they are the deciders and are influential on culture and society. When did they get a messiah complex?

There has been gay cinema and even a gay television station that actually portrays gay couples and relationships. I don't find any of the blink and you'll miss them moments as noteworthy for inclusion.

 

[LittleBuford]

I don't know if the half second gay moments Disney does actually normalizes anything.

I disagree. I would have benefitted from such moments a great deal as a gay child.

If anything I find it pretentious for Disney to think they are the deciders and are influential on culture and society. When did they get a messiah complex?

This seems like a great deal of projection on your part.

There has been gay cinema and even a gay television station that actually portrays gay couples and relationships. I don't find any of the blink and you'll miss them moments as noteworthy for inclusion.

Again, I disagree. It needn't be one or the other; both approaches have their place and their merits.

 

[mickEblu]

It’s interesting. Why aren’t Dreamworks, Illumination and other studios being more inclusive? Or maybe they are and I just don’t notice because I don’t follow them as closely? I think it has something to do with always going after the big fish in the pond first. And the people fishing in this case I think are Gen Z and Disneys own employees. Supersize Me went after McDonalds not Wendy’s. I wonder how ecstatic the other studios are that Disney was the Guinea pig that they can learn from while they fly under the radar?

 

[mickEblu]

This seems like a great deal of projection on your part.

It’s the only logical conclusion. That and/ or they re either stupid or living in a bubble like TP said.

- Messiah Complex
- ignorance
- bubble

Its one, two or all of the above.

 

[TP2000]

I only ask because I’m wondering if I live in a bubble. I mean, I try not to. I’ve traveled, lived abroad, I have friends who are just like me and friends who are nothing like me. I try to be a discerning consumer of news and information. But who knows? Maybe I don’t really understand what life is like for other people.

It doesn't sound you live in a bubble. Most folks who don't live/work in LA, DC or NYC do live in a bubble.

But the people who do live in bubbles, primarily in those three cities in this country, are so bubbled in that it's hard to extricate them.

I went to a fabulous Lesbian wedding a few years ago in Seattle. The creme de la' creme of Seattle society was there, including the mayor, as one of the brides is big in King County political circles. The Seattle celebrity chef and restauranteur who caters all the First Class food for Alaska Airlines, Tom Douglas, was manning the salmon smoker at the reception. But there was still a table of guys, plus two Lesbians, who were talking about the best ammo to use for deer hunting out on a rainy morning in Monroe.

Bubbles really only exist in the big media cities in this nation. Otherwise, there's always a table or two of straight guys (plus Lesbians) who pop the bubble within 10 or 20 minutes. At least in my lifetime of experience coast-to-coast.

 

[TP2000]

It reminds of the story of hippies taking over Disneyland in the 70s. I feel if that happened today Disney corporate would be on their side.

That's a fabulous point. And it's sad to think that it isn't wrong. To be fair to our Leftist friends here, they were Yippies, not hippies. Yippies were even more radical and anti-establishment and rabidly anti-Capitalist than your average pot smoking hippie circa 1970.

https://www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/disneyland-shut-down-1970/

I imagine that the average working class Anaheim Dockers-clad manager of 2022 would be just as horrified as their 1970 polyester-suit counterpart if that type of anti-Capitalist takeover happened today. But then the HR team from Burbank would weigh in via Twitter and declare that they value the diversity of the Yippies and that they are welcome in the Magic Kingdom during this festive season of wintertime enchantment and sparkle. Don't forget to try the Seasonal Holiday Churros in Frontierland!

It's only natural people feel somewhat betrayed that a company that played things safe culturally now takes the stance of believing they know better than parents.

That's not exclusive to Disney, but I can completely understand how it angers and alienates parents.

It's crazy to see a brand turn against their own fanbase like this.

It's insanity, and it makes no logical sense. Which is why I think the idiotic bubble-think is to blame. I can't figure it out otherwise.

 

[TP2000]

We will have another important data point on Strange World and the marketplace demand for animated family films this weekend as "Puss in Boots:The Last Wish" will be opening in the US after its strong start last weekend in a couple of dozen international markets.

With a reported budget of only half of Strange World ($90M) and an incredible Rotten Tomatoes critics score currently at 97% and an equally impressive All Audience score of 93% (vs Strange World's disastrous 40%), it will be fascinating to see how a family animated film without controversy or baggage performs in the global marketplace.

We should also have the CinemaScore by Thursday am gauging the domestic audience's reaction, which we can compare to Strange World's, which was the lowest in the history of Disney animation.

All that's fine and dandy, but which animated character in Puss N' Boots has a gay crush? That's the most important thing! Inclusion!

Box office and financial success is for suckers and bigoted Midwest moms that no one cares about, after all.

 

[TP2000]

There has been gay cinema and even a gay television station that actually portrays gay couples and relationships. I don't find any of the blink and you'll miss them moments as noteworthy for inclusion.

Agreed. Which brings me back to Schitt's Creek. I loved it from the start due to Catherine O'Hara (and the first 5 minutes of Episode 1 is still a scream!), but that first season handled the gay relationships really awkwardly and cringey. They had to pick the hot-yet-charmless bisexual guy as the gay plot point. He was dumb, and it's telling I can't even remember his name. Nor even care to to Google him.

Finally, in seasons 2 and 3, David and Stevie and Alexis all came into their own by finding their own real and genuine love interests. It was gay, to be sure, but far more genuine and believable. It was organic and real and utterly charming.

Like the difference between an old guy like myself telling a 20 year old cashier girl at Target "Merry Christmas!" and having her light up and wish me a heartfelt "And a Merry Christmas to you!" back at me, versus reading a Tweet from TDA encouraging me to "Enjoy The Sparkle Of This Festive Season With Our Holiday Wintertime Wonder Churros!"

 

[DKampy]

I think a half a second lesbian kiss is great and even better at normalizing than a having full on topic about a gay relationship… as it shows their relationship as no big deal… just a part of their life, but does not define them…as they are a couple with many different characteristics

 

[Heppenheimer]

I've read several interesting articles over the years how mens palates evolve in their 20's and 30's. Boys mature slower than girls anyway, but male palates and taste preferences are even slower it turns out.

Which is why a 20 year old guy loves cheap light beer and syrupy shots of cinnamon flavored liquor, taste profiles not far removed from the 20 year old girl across the dance floor he has his eye on.

But by age 28 or so a mans palate has changed and is evolving. Unflavored whiskey are more enticing to him, and darker and richer beers. Plus darker red wines. When a man is in his mid 30's his palate has fully evolved and appreciates smoky whiskey cocktails, and the sugary and lighter drinks of his youth are often stomach-turning for him.

It's all based in genetics, or biology, or something impressive sounding like that. But it's real. Regardless, just don't get caught drinking an Appletini or anything with an umbrella in it unless you are on a Carnival Cruise (God forbid) and your lady friend is matching you drink-for-drink. Then umbrella drinks are okay.

For all I've said here, rules are still made to be broken if she's cute enough.

Unfortunately, my ability to tolerate alcohol ended before my tastes learned to appreciate whisky or dark red wines. I'm told I'm missing quite a bit.

But hey, at least I discovered Belgian beer in my early 20s. It was a good run while it lasted.

 

[Heppenheimer]

It doesn't sound you live in a bubble. Most folks who don't live/work in LA, DC or NYC do live in a bubble.

But the people who do live in bubbles, primarily in those three cities in this country, are so bubbled in that it's hard to extricate them.

I went to a fabulous Lesbian wedding a few years ago in Seattle. The creme de la' creme of Seattle society was there, including the mayor, as one of the brides is big in King County political circles. The Seattle celebrity chef and restauranteur who caters all the First Class food for Alaska Airlines, Tom Douglas, was manning the salmon smoker at the reception. But there was still a table of guys, plus two Lesbians, who were talking about the best ammo to use for deer hunting out on a rainy morning in Monroe.

Bubbles really only exist in the big media cities in this nation. Otherwise, there's always a table or two of straight guys (plus Lesbians) who pop the bubble within 10 or 20 minutes. At least in my lifetime of experience coast-to-coast.

I've lived and worked in the DC bubble. There definitely is a superiority complex within that bubble.

Actually, where I live now in rural Vermont is also kind of a bubble, but its just a bubble that wants to be left alone and insulated from away from everyone else...particularly from a certain state to our immediate south (an opinion I don't necessarily share).

 

[DisneyHead123]

I'm objecting to movies inclusive of the 2SLGBTQQIAP+ community that are aimed at children under age 12.

It's quite telling that you refuse to make that distinction. You simply refuse. That's not going to be a winning strategy for our community long term, my dear.

We simply have to acknowledge the fact that almost all of us don't have children, will never have children, and mostly likely don't want children. Hell, I still have PTSD from babysitting my nephews a few times 20 years ago. Children?!? In my home for five hours?!? With sniffling noses and bad conversation skills and ugly shoes and chicken-tender focused dietary restrictions?!? I honestly don't know how I survived.

But would I have taken those boys to see Strange World when they were 8 and 10 years old respectively? Nope. Save the gay crush stuff in Disney movies for when they are teenagers and can process it better. An 8 year old boy shouldn't have to figure out in his brain why another boy would want to hold hands with another boy. It's just not the right time for that at age 8. At age 12, maybe. At age 15, much more likely.

But it should be up to the parents to determine the right age for that subject matter, based on inherent knowledge of their own child's development along with their familial cultural values. Weepy virtue signaling Burbank execs who live in a tight bubble like Karey Burke should not get to determine that for America's parents.

The box office results of Disney's last two animated family films produced with huge budgets of $180 to $200 Million apiece seems to prove that business plan is failing. Parents revenge, if you will.

While I agree with your “meet in the middle” approach to other topics (I’m generally centrist myself), I just think it’s logically inconsistent here. Look at other groups who benefit from inclusivity in media representation - minorities, the neurodivergent, those with different body types, those with medical conditions or disabilities - anyone who maybe doesn’t feel totally “seen” in society. How horrible would it be to tell anyone in those groups that adults can learn about them but that they must essentially be hidden from children? Hiding a group of people away from children is essentially a statement of condemnation.

That said, I can agree that Disney has potentially done more harm than good in their approach here, and that for purely pragmatic reasons it may be better for them to hit “pause” for awhile, regroup, and revisit the topic of gay characters when they can integrate them into stories more successfully. I didn’t hear any real protest when Johnny from Little Baby Bum had two daddies. Very muted reaction to the two polar bear mommies on Peppa Pig. JoJo Siwa is an openly gay YouTuber who makes Target tons of money selling “a rainbow got the stomach flu in here and vomited in every direction” swag to the kindergarten set. There are examples of gay characters / people being introduced to children successfully, in a respectful way. I just think Disney’s handwringing and multiple false starts (so many “are they or aren’t they the first gay character?!” characters) attitude, followed by what I’m hearing are not great storylines and maybe preachy attitude (haven’t seen SW yet) weren’t up to the task here.

A random fun fact - conservatives have more kids than liberals, by a lot. So presumably most kids are growing up in conservative households. Given the audience, I totally agree that getting the presentation right is key. Anything that smacks of looking down one’s nose at the audience, or fence sitting, or just bad storytelling won’t work. But I think gay characters can be represented in a way that works.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

It’s the only logical conclusion. That and/ or they re either stupid or living in a bubble like TP said.

- Messiah Complex
- ignorance
- bubble

Its one, two or all of the above.

You forgot one...

- Cowardice

I think what we're seeing is underlings with a messiah complex who see themselves as agents of social change more than storytellers, with executives who know the preachy stuff is poison but won't stand up and say "no."

Actually, where I live now in rural Vermont is also kind of a bubble, but its just a bubble that wants to be left alone and insulated from away from everyone else...particularly from a certain state to our immediate south (an opinion I don't necessarily share).

New Hampshire and Vermont are the best. They're elitists in the sense of seeing themselves as superior to Bostonians because Bostonians are too elitist.

 

[LittleBuford]

You forgot one...

- Cowardice

I think what we're seeing is underlings with a messiah complex who see themselves as agents of social change more than storytellers, with executives who know the preachy stuff is poison but won't stand up and say "no."

A brief kiss and youthful crush do not equal preaching.

 

[LittleBuford]

Anything that smacks of looking down one’s nose at the audience, or fence sitting, or just bad storytelling won’t work. But I think gay characters can be represented in a way that works.

The bolded seems an extremely unfair criterion to impose. It’s basically saying that the poor reception of a narratively lacklustre film is bound to be associated with any gay characters that that film may happen to include, whether their sexuality has anything to do with the story or not. We’ve seen evidence of this conflation throughout the present thread, but you seem to be suggesting that it’s understandable that people think this way. Please accept my apologies if I’m misinterpreting you.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

A brief kiss and youthful crush do not equal preaching.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying if Strange World existed in a vacuum, but it doesn't. You have to evaluate things as a trend.

This is a super simple example. A rainbow photo wall during Pride Month seems perfectly reasonable, right? But they couldn't help themselves. They couldn't leave it at a rainbow photo wall. They had to include the black, brown, pink, white, and light blue of the so-called "progress" flag. This "outs" (pun not intended) the ideology behind the gesture as one not of inclusion, but one of intersectionality and left-wing political ideology.

Middle-America was on your side when it came to inclusion and representation of LGBT people. They're not on the side of "queer non-binary demiguys who prefer xe/xem/xyr pronouns," which is how the designer of the progress flag identifies. That type of thing has parents hyper-sensitive to anything under the LGBTQ+ umbrella and has set the gay rights movement back decades by association.

I'm a conservative, and I want Q-anon and the white nationalists expelled from the American Right because they make my side look insane (or evil). As a gay man, I would think you would want xe/xem/xyr queer non-binary demiguys expelled from the gay rights movement because they make *your side* look insane.

 

[LittleBuford]

I agree with a lot of what you're saying if Strange World existed in a vacuum, but it doesn't. You have to evaluate things as a trend.

By that standard, any kind of queer representation Disney attempts—no matter how “mild”—is going to fail, because people will automatically associate it with a bunch of other things they don’t like. (To be clear, I don’t agree, but this is what you appear to be saying.)

As a gay man, I would think you would want xe/xem/xyr queer non-binary demiguys expelled from the gay rights movement because they make *your side* look insane.

You are crudely and snidely mischaracterising who the extra stripes stand for. As someone who not that long ago would have been viewed through the same condemnatory lens by society at large, I would be a self-serving and craven hypocrite to disassociate myself from them. We are natural allies, and I stand by them wholeheartedly.