Stop the "If Walt was alive"!!!

[larryz]

In this day and age, it would be more à propos to couch your terminology in terms of business units or cost centers as they don't exist separately, but rather as a part of the corporation. Each might have its own target audience, but they are wholly owned by the Disney corporation and not one of its joint ventures.

Ah, yes... memories of one of my favorite Dilbert strips...

I remain convinced that my boss was feeding Scott Adams internal memos directly.

 

[Launchpad McQuack]

"Don't believe everything they say about me on the internet." - Walt Disney

 

[Randyland]

Walt Disney is a legendary figure. When people say things in reference to what Walt Disney would have done or if Walt Disney was still alive things would be different, they refer to "the image" of what WALT DISNEY is in their heart. This "image" was created directly as a result of Walt Disney's works and accomplishments throughout his life, which touch all of us in many ways. When people compare the way things were when Walt Disney was alive, to what there is today, it is a very fair statement for people to use the comparison statement of what Walt Disney would have wanted. It is a statement based upon the image which was well earned and is stilled loved today, and many people simply see things very much difference although the Disney name is still attached.

 

[Joebradley62]

I think what OP is trying to get at is his distaste for people constantly complaining about the state of the company. I, too, get a little annoyed by that as well, and I mostly argue pro-Disney to play devil's advocate (and to have a little fun as well ).

But, OP, if you think Walt would be satisfied with the state of today's company you are grossly wrong. Even I'm not too blind to see that. As someone stated before, read up on your history and it's clear how much the parks have deviated from his original vision.

As an aside, OP, if you want to make a compelling argument, avoid using and capitalizing over-generalizations. I'll make bold some of the words you should avoid using next time you want people to believe what you're saying. "100% of those statements are so ignorant and NONE of those people have ANY clue what Walt would have wanted or thought in 2018."

You may find it distasteful but it is probably accurate to day none of us know how he would feel about anything. We can guess based on what we know, but sometimes what we know isnt true either. He was a businessman as well as an artist and he would have stockholders in which to answer. It is popular in entertainment and art field pretend that money has nothing to do with it but that is really just putting an artistic face on a business. I am pretty sure he didn't just build Disneyland to give it away and didn't start the florida project for the same reason.

 

[Joebradley62]

I'm not even remotely saying that everything is ok because not everything is.

Since we are not him why bother saying what we believe he would think or feel. It's pretty simple actually. Who knows, maybe a he would have become a greedy old man and the parks would be worse....while highly doubtful it's still a possibility but we have no idea.

I love everyone's opinions....just stick to our own opinions and not try to say what Walt's opinions would be.

In regards to the last part, you are correct in the generalizations in how it was worded.

I think it (Walt would not approve etc.) gets used to try to legitimize the persons opinion and to keep people from flaming.

 

[geekza]

I don't think anybody literally thinks that they can channel Walt. I can only speak for myself, but when I say I would prefer the company to follow "What would Walt do?" I mean that a process can be codified using Walt's documented decisions, words, and behaviors to be used as a general guideline. I'm not saying, "rules," I'm saying, "guidelines." A generalized structure is not a bad thing when it is derived from someone who was a master at what he did, both artistically and as a businessman. The only reason we're on this board today is because of the success Walt had with building Disneyland. The people who built the Magic Kingdom and EPCOT Center were only able to do so because they had worked directly with Walt, in most cases, and were able to make choices based upon what they learned from him. There's no reason why that couldn't have carried on. It's sadly too late now to impart first-hand knowledge, as all of those folks are either long retired or no longer with us. There is a ton of written and recorded documentation, though, that easily paints a picture of Walt's process.

Sticking with fundamentals does not imply standing still.

 

[TheDisneyMom]

Why do so many people think they have intimate knowledge of Walt Disney and what he would and wouldn't like??

Between posts here and on most of the Facebook pages in the comments sections, it's so tiring and ridiculous for people to say "it's not would Walt would have wanted" or the like.

100% of those statements are so ignorant and NONE of those people have ANY clue what Walt would have wanted or thought in 2018.

Just because someone had some historical knowledge of the man, it doesn't mean you know him or what he would think 50 years after his death.

Probably because Walt, in many documentaries, made his philosophy of entertainment, very clear. And it therefore becomes pretty easy to discern which things at Disney would fit his philosophy and which wouldn’t.

 

[DisneyDoctor]

You may find it distasteful but it is probably accurate to day none of us know how he would feel about anything. We can guess based on what we know, but sometimes what we know isnt true either. He was a businessman as well as an artist and he would have stockholders in which to answer. It is popular in entertainment and art field pretend that money has nothing to do with it but that is really just putting an artistic face on a business. I am pretty sure he didn't just build Disneyland to give it away and didn't start the florida project for the same reason.

If what we know isn’t true, then we can’t make legitimate claims about literally anything.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Probably because Walt, in many documentaries, made his philosophy of entertainment, very clear. And it therefore becomes pretty easy to discern which things at Disney would fit his philosophy and which wouldn’t.

That is true, but, the thing that must be taken into consideration now is that it is over 50 years later. The world has changed an awful lot. The bad part of the 60's hadn't even happened yet (except for JFK's assassination). The change in social attitudes, the massive change in technology, the fact that over time all that looked like magic at the time, is a yawn now. However, it is a picture that we paint in our minds and if we listen to the wrong people we get the idea that the time was nothing but rainbows and unicorns. There were a lot of misconceptions at the time and also the fact that there are more and more pressures that pull decision makers in about 150 different directions. It is OK to fantasize, but, we have to know that deep down, there is a very good chance that we are completely wrong in our assumptions.

 

[Chef Mickey]

Same speculation happens with Apple and Steve Jobs.

"Steve Jobs would have never allowed this."

It's just a speculative, tired ethos that mires people in the past. No one knows what someone would have done with the current landscape and they conveniently forget the controversial decisions those who have died made when they were living.

 

[Walt Disney1955]

Why do so many people think they have intimate knowledge of Walt Disney and what he would and wouldn't like??

Between posts here and on most of the Facebook pages in the comments sections, it's so tiring and ridiculous for people to say "it's not would Walt would have wanted" or the like.

100% of those statements are so ignorant and NONE of those people have ANY clue what Walt would have wanted or thought in 2018.

Just because someone had some historical knowledge of the man, it doesn't mean you know him or what he would think 50 years after his death.

I think you can take a good guess from things based on when he was alive. His quotes and such and the 11 years he ran Disneyland until his death. Other things such as how he was indifferent to the needs of the shareholders. He wasn't interested in making money to line everyone's pockets, he made money to make more movies and do more in the parks. Yes he didn't starve and his family had money, but even looking at the price of admission in 1955 compared to today it was much cheaper, and yes that includes factoring in inflation.

We know the standards he had for things such as the Mickey Mouse club. No one can imagine Walt running the modern Disney channel the way it is today and that isn't hard to see. Walt isn't Bob Iger. He was a visionary. He did have his own ideas. It is true many of his movies were translated into park rides, but look at how much else he did. Prior to his death Pirates completed. He was working on Haunted Mansion at the time of his death and a very rough idea of Country Bear Jamboree. None of those are Disney Movies, or weren't then at least.

So you can definitely come to a realization that there are things in the park that Walt wouldn't like or like how things are run.

 

[Goofyernmost]

So you can definitely come to a realization that there are things in the park that you think Walt wouldn't like or like how things are run.

FTFY... My opinion is that Walt would not have survived if he wouldn't have changed his outlook on things. We can hate good ole Bobby for many thing, but, he diversified the Disney Company and in the process was able strengthen it by gigantic amounts, financially. Walt was focused which really wouldn't have lent itself to the diversity. Any money he had would have just gone into what he knew how to do. He created a solid and memorable base to build on, but, I don't think he had the tools in his tool box to take some of the eggs out of the single basket he created. It was needed at that time, but, as much as I hate to say it, I really do not believe that there would even be a Disney Co. anymore had he lived long enough to actually build EPCOT.

 

[geekza]

It was needed at that time, but, as much as I hate to say it, I really do not believe that there would even be a Disney Co. anymore had he lived long enough to actually build EPCOT.

Then again, EPCOT was still very early on in the planning stages when he passed. Walt was very astute and could tell when something wasn't going to work. When that happened, he dropped it. History is full of projects that were in the planning stages at Disney that were canceled when Walt came to the realization that something was fundamentally wrong with them that could cause them to fail or not meet his very high expectations. We'll never know, of course, what might have happened, but I do think it's fair to surmise that, had Walt been healthy and lived, the plans for EPCOT would have evolved from their initial state and either become workable, changed into something else, or dropped if found to be untenable.

 

[FettFan]

It's about how high he set the bar back in the day, because he gave a carp about the guests and not squeezing every last thin dime out of their wallets. He wanted to present the best show possible at a reasonable price, so that guests would want to return again and again. Volume vs. an occasional overpriced vacation.

BINGO.

 

[SteamboatJoe]

Then again, EPCOT was still very early on in the planning stages when he passed. Walt was very astute and could tell when something wasn't going to work. When that happened, he dropped it. History is full of projects that were in the planning stages at Disney that were canceled when Walt came to the realization that something was fundamentally wrong with them that could cause them to fail or not meet his very high expectations. We'll never know, of course, what might have happened, but I do think it's fair to surmise that, had Walt been healthy and lived, the plans for EPCOT would have evolved from their initial state and either become workable, changed into something else, or dropped if found to be untenable.

Yep. He had remarkable foresight and was known to abandon something when he could see it wasn't going to work. I tend to think that he would've moved on from the original EPCOT concept for financial, practical, and sustainability reasons and would've fallen in love with the permanent world's fair concept that was ultimately constructed as well as the overall idea to turn the whole Florida project into an immersive, family friendly resort. My guess is he would've still tried to build his dream community at some point but under a separate corporate entity to protect the company.

 

[Lou Filerman]

Or maybe just ignore those threads you don’t like. Novel idea I know.

 

[Willmark]

So if Walt was alive?

 

[Goofyernmost]

Or maybe just ignore those threads you don’t like. Novel idea I know.

Might that apply to you as well concerning this thread? There has never been a time when people are working on finding anything that seems logical then now and talking as if we know Walt intimately is about as far from logic as we can get. Because Walt was smart, didn't stop him from stubbornly pursuing things that didn't make sense to most people. Some worked, some didn't, but, he never wavered in his insistance that he was going to do it. Disneyland was an example of something that worked and Fantasia was something that didn't. He wasn't always right, but, it didn't stop him from going ahead anyway. At the time he thought of EPCOT, it was possible that it might have worked, for a short time, but, techology advances would have ended all incentive of industry filling it with new updates regularly. Good idea, but, not one that was workable in the long haul. Look into what happened in Celebration. Or what was then referred to as "mini Epcot".

 

[spock8113]

I think EPCOT came about in it's present design as homage to Disney. It's called a World's Fair type of park. Disney employees who worked with him during his time of designing rides for the 1964-65 New York World's Fair felt comfortable and knowledgeable enough to create a park similar to what was to be some of Disney's largest contributions to theme parks in general.
This is why all those World's fair rides wound up back in Disney's possession, most of which can be seen in various parks to this day.
It was Disneyland-1955, the World's Fair-1964 then Disneyworld "The Florida Project"-1964/1966/1971 before he passed.
Important historical Disney timeline if you care about his theme park experience.

 

[larryz]

So if Walt was alive?

He could do in-person meet-'n'-greets...