Rumor Stitch's Great Escape Replacement— Don’t Hold Your Breath

[EricsBiscuit]

You didn't ask me, but my ideal answer involves relocating and improving three things in MK to Epcot:

• it's a small world - relocated to Showcase Plaza area of Epcot (if possible), otherwise as close to World Showcase in Future World as it can be. It's the perfect attraction to bridge the two halves of Epcot. I wouldn't change it significantly as I think it's important to have this one be character free.
  
• Carousel of Progress - Update the animatronics throughout and update the final scene. I'd love to see this as part of a new Horizons complex, but something located in and around Innoventions would also work too
• Space Mountain - Again, as a larger scale space area in Future World, I'd build a new Space Mountain in Future World (perhaps on or near the Wonders of Life site). The Magic Kingdom version needs to be rebuilt from the ground up, so this is as good a time as any to move it.

Assuming those are removed here are my bullet points:

• New attraction in Adventureland. I'd love for a trackless ride with a similar story line to Mystic Manor but with a Polynesian twist.
• Fantasyland 3.0. Since I've removed it's a small world that opens up a large area that can butt up against New Fantasyland. Peter Pan's Flight can be updated, perhaps the Tinkerbell nook and flat ride can be added as well. Beyond that, the area this opens up into is huge. I can see an additional restaurant (Pinocchio's may have to be removed/relocated) and multiple attractions can be added. This can be accomplished with either classic low capacity fantasyland dark rides or more modern (Mermaid-esque) high capacity rides (just less of them). This is where I wanted to put Frozen.
• Tomorrowland 2.0 - I'm of the opinion that a distinction needs to be made between Tomorrowland and whatever Future world is becoming. I'm "more ok" with IP going into Tomorrowland and expect that to be part of it's future. Since we're relocating Space Mountain and Carousel of Progress, it's also likely that other things are going to be removed/replaced as well. For me, other than the TTA and maybe a version of Astro Orbiter, everything is on the table. I like the idea of Wreck it Ralph as a bridge attraction between Fantasyland and Tomorrowland and would love to see the Speedway space be repurposed with that in mind. If the space can be used more efficiently, there's room there for more than just a Wreck it Ralph attraction. As a thrill anchor, the Tron coaster is an obvious choice, but I wouldn't oppose other suggestions. In short, there's a lot of capacity currently in Tomorrowland, but still quite a bit of wasted space. It may even be worthwhile to redesign the entire hub entrance corridor to allow for better use of that space.
• New nighttime parade
• New fireworks show

I disagree that attractions should be relocated. I just think it's a waste of money. Besides, IASW doesn't fit as it feels too cartoony and kid like for Epcot.

If I got the chance to "fix" MK, I would do this:

*add a modern WRE with Shangai Pirates tech between Splash Mountain and Pirates
*add Indiana Jones Temple of the Forbidden Eye in between Swiss Fam and Main Street by bridging the little creek.
*redo of SpectroMagic with Paint The Night technology
*update Wishes
*refurb the following attractions and plus them: SM, Peter Pan, CBJ, BTMRR, and the Liberty Belle. Of course returns should be done for every attraction.

If I could add sonething to TL, it would be behind the raceway. Probably a 20k under the sea attraction like in Disney Sea. It fits the Jules Verne feel. Plus, a great opportunity arises to add a sea food priority Captain Neemo table service restraunt.

 

[doctornick]

Frontierland - Fantasyland connector without sacrificing TSI

I so wish this would happen. DL is finally building on the north side of their ROA and MK easily could too. Not only would that massively expand guest areas to help diffuse crowds, but would create another important way to move crowds which would be big during parade (if MK ever has any ). There could easily be a new land on the north side of the river or expansions to Frontierland (WRE?) or Liberty Square (Sleepy Hollow?) and could be used as justification to expand Fantasyland to the north as it really needs.

C'mon and use the "blessing of size".

 

[EricsBiscuit]

As a usually DLR-native guest, attraction-wise in every way MK was an embarrassment. The grand scale of MK is beautiful and something I can't get at home, but when nearly every single shared attraction was better maintained/updated at home, quite an embarrassing moment for MK.

Instead of trying to get Country Bear Jamboree/CoP etc., an attraction you should never have to wait more than one show cycle to ride, to 30+ minute waits, how about making the rides that have 60 minute waits worth waiting 60 minutes for? Two hours for MK's arguably dangerous Space Mountain is ridiculous. It's important to have attractions in a castle park that typically have minimal waits. Not all attractions are created equal, despite what the FP+ claims (although only in AK and MK, the rule in DHS and Epcot implies they have some inferior attractions).

Not saying the other parks don't need more help, most do, but MK certainly needs help too. The good-enough mentality applied to the state things like Space/Peter Pan/Buzz can't continue. Not when the crown jewel of WDW, and of the entire Disney Parks and Resorts, has the worst version of many attractions.

I agree with the worth 60 minutes part. However the the attractions are more spread out at WDW than DL. Also I do not agree that DL's versions are always better. Maybe for BTMRR because we haven't gotten the effects yet, but Space Mountain is much faster here for example,most of the que lines are better themed, and the que lines are incorporated into the attractions. My favorite example is Pirates. As a DL native you would probably believe your version of Pirates is superior; however when Marc Davis devised our version he incorporated the que line into the attraction. You are in a Spanish castle, you hear (albeit drained out due to the loud voices of guests) something to the effect of the piratas (pirates) are hear, we need to go. You leave the castle on a boat and the rest is history.

 

[Mike S]

You didn't ask me, but my ideal answer involves relocating and improving three things in MK to Epcot:

• it's a small world - relocated to Showcase Plaza area of Epcot (if possible), otherwise as close to World Showcase in Future World as it can be. It's the perfect attraction to bridge the two halves of Epcot. I wouldn't change it significantly as I think it's important to have this one be character free.
  
• Carousel of Progress - Update the animatronics throughout and update the final scene. I'd love to see this as part of a new Horizons complex, but something located in and around Innoventions would also work too
• Space Mountain - Again, as a larger scale space area in Future World, I'd build a new Space Mountain in Future World (perhaps on or near the Wonders of Life site). The Magic Kingdom version needs to be rebuilt from the ground up, so this is as good a time as any to move it.

Assuming those are removed here are my bullet points:

• New attraction in Adventureland. I'd love for a trackless ride with a similar story line to Mystic Manor but with a Polynesian twist.
• Fantasyland 3.0. Since I've removed it's a small world that opens up a large area that can butt up against New Fantasyland. Peter Pan's Flight can be updated, perhaps the Tinkerbell nook and flat ride can be added as well. Beyond that, the area this opens up into is huge. I can see an additional restaurant (Pinocchio's may have to be removed/relocated) and multiple attractions can be added. This can be accomplished with either classic low capacity fantasyland dark rides or more modern (Mermaid-esque) high capacity rides (just less of them). This is where I wanted to put Frozen.
• Tomorrowland 2.0 - I'm of the opinion that a distinction needs to be made between Tomorrowland and whatever Future world is becoming. I'm "more ok" with IP going into Tomorrowland and expect that to be part of it's future. Since we're relocating Space Mountain and Carousel of Progress, it's also likely that other things are going to be removed/replaced as well. For me, other than the TTA and maybe a version of Astro Orbiter, everything is on the table. I like the idea of Wreck it Ralph as a bridge attraction between Fantasyland and Tomorrowland and would love to see the Speedway space be repurposed with that in mind. If the space can be used more efficiently, there's room there for more than just a Wreck it Ralph attraction. As a thrill anchor, the Tron coaster is an obvious choice, but I wouldn't oppose other suggestions. In short, there's a lot of capacity currently in Tomorrowland, but still quite a bit of wasted space. It may even be worthwhile to redesign the entire hub entrance corridor to allow for better use of that space.
• New nighttime parade
• New fireworks show

Space Mountain still throws me for a loop. There's plenty of expansion space in Tomorrowland without removing it or CoP but I've pondered the idea of that sharing a space with a new Horizons in Epcot as well. It's also a MK original that was here before any other version.

I so wish this would happen. DL is finally building on the north side of their ROA and MK easily could too. Not only would that massively expand guest areas to help diffuse crowds, but would create another important way to move crowds which would be big during parade (if MK ever has any ). There could easily be a new land on the north side of the river or expansions to Frontierland (WRE?) or Liberty Square (Sleepy Hollow?) and could be used as justification to expand Fantasyland to the north as it really needs.

C'mon and use the "blessing of size".

I'd love Sleepy Hollow.

 

[roj2323]

More rides / capacity without relying on IP
Purpose built nighttime parade
Frontierland - Fantasyland connector without sacrificing TSI
Finally fix Space Mountain properly
A proper, reasonable breakfast available for a reasonable price (yes, really! like it used to be!)

I feel like Tom Sawyer Island is on it's death bed and will be gone in the next 10-15 years. I'm not sure what that says about the steam boat but it's starting to look like wasted space and the bean counters have got to be licking their lips with the potential of that area.

 

[Kman101]

As a usually DLR-native guest, attraction-wise in every way MK was an embarrassment. The grand scale of MK is beautiful and something I can't get at home, but when nearly every single shared attraction was better maintained/updated at home, quite an embarrassing moment for MK.

Instead of trying to get Country Bear Jamboree/CoP etc., an attraction you should never have to wait more than one show cycle to ride, to 30+ minute waits, how about making the rides that have 60 minute waits worth waiting 60 minutes for? Two hours for MK's arguably dangerous Space Mountain is ridiculous. It's important to have attractions in a castle park that typically have minimal waits. Not all attractions are created equal, despite what the FP+ claims (although only in AK and MK, the rule in DHS and Epcot implies they have some inferior attractions).

Not saying the other parks don't need more help, most do, but MK certainly needs help too. The good-enough mentality applied to the state things like Space/Peter Pan/Buzz can't continue. Not when the crown jewel of WDW, and of the entire Disney Parks and Resorts, has the worst version of many attractions.

I agree with this post. Although I'd argue while pretty much the same, Mansion and Splash are better at WDW. And yes I've visited Disneyland. There's a thread right now in the DL forum about rides that need to be refurbed and it sounds like quite a few could use some help. However, I still agree their park is overall usually better maintained and they've plussed several of their attractions because they can. Gee, what a concept

There's no reason the MK is run as it is and why we have gotten the bare minimum in a lot of ways (cue the cries that this just isn't true). They also refuse to actually expand in most cases when as stated they have the blessing of size.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

At DL, they plus attractions because they choose to. So could Florida if the suits really wanted to do so.

 

[jt04]

You didn't ask me, but my ideal answer involves relocating and improving three things in MK to Epcot:

• it's a small world - relocated to Showcase Plaza area of Epcot (if possible), otherwise as close to World Showcase in Future World as it can be. It's the perfect attraction to bridge the two halves of Epcot. I wouldn't change it significantly as I think it's important to have this one be character free.
  
• Carousel of Progress - Update the animatronics throughout and update the final scene. I'd love to see this as part of a new Horizons complex, but something located in and around Innoventions would also work too
• Space Mountain - Again, as a larger scale space area in Future World, I'd build a new Space Mountain in Future World (perhaps on or near the Wonders of Life site). The Magic Kingdom version needs to be rebuilt from the ground up, so this is as good a time as any to move it.

Assuming those are removed here are my bullet points:

• New attraction in Adventureland. I'd love for a trackless ride with a similar story line to Mystic Manor but with a Polynesian twist.
• Fantasyland 3.0. Since I've removed it's a small world that opens up a large area that can butt up against New Fantasyland. Peter Pan's Flight can be updated, perhaps the Tinkerbell nook and flat ride can be added as well. Beyond that, the area this opens up into is huge. I can see an additional restaurant (Pinocchio's may have to be removed/relocated) and multiple attractions can be added. This can be accomplished with either classic low capacity fantasyland dark rides or more modern (Mermaid-esque) high capacity rides (just less of them). This is where I wanted to put Frozen.
• Tomorrowland 2.0 - I'm of the opinion that a distinction needs to be made between Tomorrowland and whatever Future world is becoming. I'm "more ok" with IP going into Tomorrowland and expect that to be part of it's future. Since we're relocating Space Mountain and Carousel of Progress, it's also likely that other things are going to be removed/replaced as well. For me, other than the TTA and maybe a version of Astro Orbiter, everything is on the table. I like the idea of Wreck it Ralph as a bridge attraction between Fantasyland and Tomorrowland and would love to see the Speedway space be repurposed with that in mind. If the space can be used more efficiently, there's room there for more than just a Wreck it Ralph attraction. As a thrill anchor, the Tron coaster is an obvious choice, but I wouldn't oppose other suggestions. In short, there's a lot of capacity currently in Tomorrowland, but still quite a bit of wasted space. It may even be worthwhile to redesign the entire hub entrance corridor to allow for better use of that space.
• New nighttime parade
• New fireworks show

Still prefer IASW being placed in Italy utilizing an expanded show building in Germany. Then the log jam in the MK is broken.

Also think Epcot should become Epcot 2.0 before any major capital projects happen in the MK. Piece meal is fine but MK 2.0 should only happen after Epcot 2.0.


IMO.

 

[jt04]

Adding major e-tickets to MK should probably be a fairly high priority. MK is what people often think of as "Disney," and it's (supposedly) usually people's first stop/impression at WDW, so it's particularly important for making sure WDW stands out against the competition. I think.

For the long term financial viability of WDW getting guests to the other parks should be the priority. Otherwise the MK becomes overwhelmed. Especially if they add major new attractions before fixing the other 3 parks. IMO.

 

[DinoInstitute]

A proper, reasonable breakfast available for a reasonable price (yes, really! like it used to be!)

This. It baffles me how there are so little breakfast options in the park that aren't character dining/Starbucks (all parks too, but especially MK). People get to the gate as early as 7:00 sometimes- and they get hungry! And standing in line for 20 minutes for a Starbucks sandwich or Cheshire Cafe muffin doesnt fulfill this need. The Tomorrowland Terrace IMO would be a perfect place to have some sort of counter service breakfast, and then another table service breakfast diner in Frontierland maybe.
It's really a shame too that there isn't much, as I am just as likely to eat a real breakfast in the parks as lunch/dinner, as breakfast food is the best food.

 

[Marc Davis Fan]

For the long term financial viability of WDW getting guests to the other parks should be the priority. Otherwise the MK becomes overwhelmed. Especially if they add major new attractions before fixing the other 3 parks. IMO.

Right, sorry, I meant a priority for MK.

Also, hopefully projects for major MK additions will include additional acreage (or at least they should).

 

[doctornick]

Adding major e-tickets to MK should probably be a fairly high priority. MK is what people often think of as "Disney," and it's (supposedly) usually people's first stop/impression at WDW, so it's particularly important for making sure WDW stands out against the competition. I think.

I don't really agree. Sure, MK could benefit from another E-ticket or two, but it really needs capacity increasing rides that won't drawn in huge numbers of extra folks. It probably would do better with a bunch more rides like Little Mermaid actually.

The other three parks need big headlining E-tickets far more. The priority for WDW really needs to be to expand the other three parks a lot while "plussing" MK. The stuff already in motion at DAK and DHS are a good start, but there needs to be more for those parks -- and stuff at Epcot -- in the shorter term.

I'm curious as to what ends up happening for the post-Star Wars time frame (2020-2021) going into the 50th. Hopefully, we'll get some answers at the D23 expo this summer.

 

[EricsBiscuit]

The way the management sees it, why upgrade? They think that because it's the number one tourist destination that they can sit on their a**es.

Hopefully when Bob Iger goes, Chapek and WDW management can go too. I wish we could resurrect Card Walker!

 

[Mike S]

I don't really agree. Sure, MK could benefit from another E-ticket or two, but it really needs capacity increasing rides that won't drawn in huge numbers of extra folks. It probably would do better with a bunch more rides like Little Mermaid actually.

The other three parks need big headlining E-tickets far more. The priority for WDW really needs to be to expand the other three parks a lot while "plussing" MK. The stuff already in motion at DAK and DHS are a good start, but there needs to be more for those parks -- and stuff at Epcot -- in the shorter term.

I'm curious as to what ends up happening for the post-Star Wars time frame (2020-2021) going into the 50th. Hopefully, we'll get some answers at the D23 expo this summer.

This is exactly why the years of stagnation from about 2005 to now were so damaging, especially at the begining of that period when the parks were still not at the point of bursting with people close to all year round. So much wasted time where things could've been built to amp up capacity.

 

[doctornick]

This is exactly why the years of stagnation from about 2005 to now were so damaging, especially at the begining of that period when the parks were still not at the point of bursting with people close to all year round. So much wasted time where things could've been built to amp up capacity.

Yeah, that's the thing. Not only do they need to build what they "should" in a normal cycle for the next 5 years, but they also need to play "catch up" for the last decade of stagnation.

It's pitiful that even after the announced expansions are complete, DHS and DAK will have only 9 rides each (I'm being charitable and counting the RR at DAK as a ride). Pathetic that they won't even hit double digits in rides despite how much money they are pouring into them.

 

[matt9112]

I don't really agree. Sure, MK could benefit from another E-ticket or two, but it really needs capacity increasing rides that won't drawn in huge numbers of extra folks. It probably would do better with a bunch more rides like Little Mermaid actually.

The other three parks need big headlining E-tickets far more. The priority for WDW really needs to be to expand the other three parks a lot while "plussing" MK. The stuff already in motion at DAK and DHS are a good start, but there needs to be more for those parks -- and stuff at Epcot -- in the shorter term.

I'm curious as to what ends up happening for the post-Star Wars time frame (2020-2021) going into the 50th. Hopefully, we'll get some answers at the D23 expo this summer.

I agree people eaters.....

 

[matt9112]

Yeah, that's the thing. Not only do they need to build what they "should" in a normal cycle for the next 5 years, but they also need to play "catch up" for the last decade of stagnation.


It's pitiful that even after the announced expansions are complete, DHS and DAK will have only 9 rides each (I'm being charitable and counting the RR at DAK as a ride). Pathetic that they won't even hit double digits in rides despite how much money they are pouring into them.

Shows you what the care about.... things that look good for the camera and coffee table books. Yeah DAK could be the best park in Florida....

 

[Luxe]

You didn't ask me, but my ideal answer involves relocating and improving three things in MK to Epcot:

• it's a small world - relocated to Showcase Plaza area of Epcot (if possible), otherwise as close to World Showcase in Future World as it can be. It's the perfect attraction to bridge the two halves of Epcot. I wouldn't change it significantly as I think it's important to have this one be character free.
  
• Carousel of Progress - Update the animatronics throughout and update the final scene. I'd love to see this as part of a new Horizons complex, but something located in and around Innoventions would also work too
• Space Mountain - Again, as a larger scale space area in Future World, I'd build a new Space Mountain in Future World (perhaps on or near the Wonders of Life site). The Magic Kingdom version needs to be rebuilt from the ground up, so this is as good a time as any to move it.

Assuming those are removed here are my bullet points:

• New attraction in Adventureland. I'd love for a trackless ride with a similar story line to Mystic Manor but with a Polynesian twist.
• Fantasyland 3.0. Since I've removed it's a small world that opens up a large area that can butt up against New Fantasyland. Peter Pan's Flight can be updated, perhaps the Tinkerbell nook and flat ride can be added as well. Beyond that, the area this opens up into is huge. I can see an additional restaurant (Pinocchio's may have to be removed/relocated) and multiple attractions can be added. This can be accomplished with either classic low capacity fantasyland dark rides or more modern (Mermaid-esque) high capacity rides (just less of them). This is where I wanted to put Frozen.
• Tomorrowland 2.0 - I'm of the opinion that a distinction needs to be made between Tomorrowland and whatever Future world is becoming. I'm "more ok" with IP going into Tomorrowland and expect that to be part of it's future. Since we're relocating Space Mountain and Carousel of Progress, it's also likely that other things are going to be removed/replaced as well. For me, other than the TTA and maybe a version of Astro Orbiter, everything is on the table. I like the idea of Wreck it Ralph as a bridge attraction between Fantasyland and Tomorrowland and would love to see the Speedway space be repurposed with that in mind. If the space can be used more efficiently, there's room there for more than just a Wreck it Ralph attraction. As a thrill anchor, the Tron coaster is an obvious choice, but I wouldn't oppose other suggestions. In short, there's a lot of capacity currently in Tomorrowland, but still quite a bit of wasted space. It may even be worthwhile to redesign the entire hub entrance corridor to allow for better use of that space.
• New nighttime parade
• New fireworks show

Thanks for putting some clear thought into these posts. Reading your ideas for the parks is exciting and would breathe new life into them. Only thing I can't quite get on board with is moving attractions, I can't possibly see current Disney management bothering to do so even though I think it would be beneficial:

 

[Luxe]

I don't really agree. Sure, MK could benefit from another E-ticket or two, but it really needs capacity increasing rides that won't drawn in huge numbers of extra folks. It probably would do better with a bunch more rides like Little Mermaid actually.

The other three parks need big headlining E-tickets far more. The priority for WDW really needs to be to expand the other three parks a lot while "plussing" MK. The stuff already in motion at DAK and DHS are a good start, but there needs to be more for those parks -- and stuff at Epcot -- in the shorter term.

I'm curious as to what ends up happening for the post-Star Wars time frame (2020-2021) going into the 50th. Hopefully, we'll get some answers at the D23 expo this summer.

Capcity rides could definitely help but the other parks are in dire need. TLC in the other 3 parks would also help to spread the crowd and hopefully give the Kingdom some breathing room.

As for SW and Avatar, I'm slightly worried they will suffer from similar issues to Diagon Alley. It's hard to get a clear perspective from the concept art and aerial photos how much space there is to move around, maybe someone with more info can elaborate for me. To me, they both seem like there isn't enough actually walking room. Hopefully I'm completely wrong.

I had a good reason why SW and Avatar land concerns were connected to the MK, but I can't seem to remember now. I think I need some sleep...

 

[marni1971]

I feel like Tom Sawyer Island is on it's death bed and will be gone in the next 10-15 years. I'm not sure what that says about the steam boat but it's starting to look like wasted space and the bean counters have got to be licking their lips with the potential of that area.

They've been trying to dock the boat permenantly for years. Thankfully so far they've been unsuccessful.