21stamps
Well-Known Member
I’m sure there are. You can also homeschool. But what happens when your kid wants to do extracurricular activities? “Sorry kid, you can’t play sports because I think vaccines are a scam. “
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Status of the flu in DW
- Thread starter iowamouse
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I’m sure there are. You can also homeschool. But what happens when your kid wants to do extracurricular activities? “Sorry kid, you can’t play sports because I think vaccines are a scam. “
They have,but there are also just as many studies that show it is not strictly due t vaccinations. "Better nutrition, not to mention the development of antibiotics and other treatments, have increased survival rates among the sick; less crowded living conditions have reduced disease transmission; and lower birth rates have decreased the number of susceptible household contacts". -That is from The World Health Organization, not an anti vaxxer site. http://www.who.int/vaccine_safety/initiative/detection/immunization_misconceptions/en/index1.html
Again, our original discussion about social acceptance was in terms of taking reasonable precautions was excusable if a child got another child sick. I simply asked if reasonable precautions were excusable for a pro vax parents child , why would an anti vax parent be judged if they took precautions as well?
21stamps
Well-Known Member
Because the only way to fully eradicate something.. measles, chicken pox, small pox, etc etc etc. is by having enough people immunized to where it can stop mutating and spreading.
That’s why 1st world countries have been more successful in wiping out disease than other countries have been.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Because you haven’t actually described any real precautions. Just using the work of others.
21stamps
Well-Known Member
@wdisney9000 the following is from the WHO link that you provided.
Are we expected to believe that better sanitation caused incidence of each disease to drop just at the time a vaccine for that disease was introduced? Since sanitation is not better now than it was in 1990, it is hard to attribute the virtual disappearance of Hib disease in children in recent years in countries with routine Hib vaccination (from an estimated 20,000 cases a year to 1,419 cases in 1993, and dropping in the United States of America) to anything other than the vaccine....
It seems clear from these experiences that not only would diseases not be disappearing without vaccines, but if we were to stop vaccinating, they would come back. Of more immediate interest is the major epidemics of diphtheria that occurred in the former Soviet Union in the 1990s, where low primary immunization rates for children and the lack of booster vaccinations for adults resulted in an increase from 839 cases in 1989 to nearly 50,000 cases and 1,700 deaths in 1994. There were at least 20 imported cases in Europe and two cases in U.S. citizens who had worked in the former Soviet Union.
WHO gratefully acknowledges the permission of CDC Atlanta, to present an edited version of "Six common misconceptions about immunization".
Are we expected to believe that better sanitation caused incidence of each disease to drop just at the time a vaccine for that disease was introduced? Since sanitation is not better now than it was in 1990, it is hard to attribute the virtual disappearance of Hib disease in children in recent years in countries with routine Hib vaccination (from an estimated 20,000 cases a year to 1,419 cases in 1993, and dropping in the United States of America) to anything other than the vaccine....
It seems clear from these experiences that not only would diseases not be disappearing without vaccines, but if we were to stop vaccinating, they would come back. Of more immediate interest is the major epidemics of diphtheria that occurred in the former Soviet Union in the 1990s, where low primary immunization rates for children and the lack of booster vaccinations for adults resulted in an increase from 839 cases in 1989 to nearly 50,000 cases and 1,700 deaths in 1994. There were at least 20 imported cases in Europe and two cases in U.S. citizens who had worked in the former Soviet Union.
WHO gratefully acknowledges the permission of CDC Atlanta, to present an edited version of "Six common misconceptions about immunization".
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Did you get that from the Georgia Guidestones?
The Illuminati won't let me say.
NelleBelle
Well-Known Member
So over the past few years, Washington state has had increasing numbers of measles and mumps outbreaks. Our state's department of health has mandated that all students (and staff) are to stay home from school for a period at least 25 days unless they have "received the MMR vaccine or have had a blood test to prove that they are immune in order to stay in school."
I was also shocked when I read this statistic from the CDC regarding the pertussis epidemic Washington had in 2012: "Since mid-2011, a substantial rise in pertussis cases has been reported in the state of Washington. In response to this increase, the Washington State Secretary of Health declared a pertussis epidemic on April 3, 2012. By June 16, the reported number of cases in Washington in 2012 had reached 2,520 (37.5 cases per 100,000 residents), a 1,300% increase compared with the same period in 2011 and the highest number of cases reported in any year since 1942." This is the highest number since the early 1940s, when the vaccine was introduced! Most affected were babies 3 months and younger. At 3 months, an infant has only received their first dose (if vaccinated), so are not fully protected, which is why so many infected were infants.
Varicella (aka "chickenpox") may not always be lethal when contracted (in childhood, but when contracted as an adult, there are serious complications, including death). But there are diseases that are deadly if contracted, especially by newborns/infants.
I was also shocked when I read this statistic from the CDC regarding the pertussis epidemic Washington had in 2012: "Since mid-2011, a substantial rise in pertussis cases has been reported in the state of Washington. In response to this increase, the Washington State Secretary of Health declared a pertussis epidemic on April 3, 2012. By June 16, the reported number of cases in Washington in 2012 had reached 2,520 (37.5 cases per 100,000 residents), a 1,300% increase compared with the same period in 2011 and the highest number of cases reported in any year since 1942." This is the highest number since the early 1940s, when the vaccine was introduced! Most affected were babies 3 months and younger. At 3 months, an infant has only received their first dose (if vaccinated), so are not fully protected, which is why so many infected were infants.
Varicella (aka "chickenpox") may not always be lethal when contracted (in childhood, but when contracted as an adult, there are serious complications, including death). But there are diseases that are deadly if contracted, especially by newborns/infants.
Starlight67
Well-Known Member
That's interesting about pertussis. I remember my mom telling us this story of her sister having whooping cough as a kid (I'm 50). She couldn't breathe and my grandmother had to swing her around in circles by her feet to get her breathing again. Ugh.
Otterhead
Well-Known Member
Just came from a week at WDW and two of my group (including myself) came down with a stomach bug after three days there. I was back to small amounts of food and walking around after two days, but my traveling companion was hit so bad that he had to be taken to the Celebration hospital by Reedy Creek ambulance. The ER was full of people throwing up. Luckily the bug didn't progress to actual flu for either of us, and we were repeatedly told by nurses and first responders, "it's because you got your flu shots."
So yes: flu is bad right now but the stomach bug is even more prevalent. Wash your hands, use hand sanitizer, and for cripes' sake, GET THE FLU SHOT.
So yes: flu is bad right now but the stomach bug is even more prevalent. Wash your hands, use hand sanitizer, and for cripes' sake, GET THE FLU SHOT.
Absolutely untrue. Effectiveness is at 33%, which is way better than the 0% you'll have if you don't get a shot.
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Just back on the 4th both my oldest son and I got the flu at Disney - it’s was the last day so not bad — but it is in the parks as we took better than average precautions—/ just be aware — that standing in lines people sneeze and cough and most are good about protecting— but there are those people that just don’t !!
So to add to it I have stage 4 appendix and liver cancer — so I was quite aware of the surroundings
Otterhead
Well-Known Member
The day before my travel companion and I started feeling gross, we were on Pirates in front of an adorable British family at the parks for the first time. Repeatedly during the ride, the father leaned forward and hack-coughed directly into the back of our heads. We asked him to please cover his mouth and he'd say "oh! Heavens! Terribly sorry!" and then do it again. Some people have no class.
spock8113
Well-Known Member
"parents who have vaccinated their kids but are upset with parents who have not."
This is one of the biggest problems. These opinions ASSUME that the flu shot works 100% on everyone and these are bad parents.
Basically your forehead has a big red F on it. It's a form of harassment and keep your opinions about my health to yourself.
The flu shot does not always prevent the flu and certain vaccines only reduce the SYMPTOMS by a day, at most.
Once again, the number of flu cases hasn't really changed in almost 50 years.
It's everywhere so going to the parks isn't going to vary your chances of getting it.
I find airplane travel a more likely place for germs.
Tune out the daily media barrage of pandemic fears.
Please go, wash your hands alot, bring sanitizing gel in a holster and get your shots if it it puts your mind at ease.
And certainly, if you don't feel well, head to the nearest walk-in clinic for some antibiotics.
Personally, I'm more scared of the new ticket prices!
This is one of the biggest problems. These opinions ASSUME that the flu shot works 100% on everyone and these are bad parents.
Basically your forehead has a big red F on it. It's a form of harassment and keep your opinions about my health to yourself.
The flu shot does not always prevent the flu and certain vaccines only reduce the SYMPTOMS by a day, at most.
Once again, the number of flu cases hasn't really changed in almost 50 years.
It's everywhere so going to the parks isn't going to vary your chances of getting it.
I find airplane travel a more likely place for germs.
Tune out the daily media barrage of pandemic fears.
Please go, wash your hands alot, bring sanitizing gel in a holster and get your shots if it it puts your mind at ease.
And certainly, if you don't feel well, head to the nearest walk-in clinic for some antibiotics.
Personally, I'm more scared of the new ticket prices!
clarabellej
Well-Known Member
“I've heard the Buzz Lightyear ride should be avoided.” What does Buzz Lightyear have to do with the flu? I heard on World News the other night that this flu season has not peaked yet. Probably not till May. We are going week of 3/11 for Spring Break. I guess the safe thing would be to avoid crowded places in general. Not possible if you are visiting Disney. Hope everyone has had a flu shot. Even that is no guarantee you will not catch it. If you are afraid of germs. I would think Disney would be a nightmare regardless of the flu. Just try and enjoy your trip.
clarabellej
Well-Known Member
Washing hands is a good defense, but honestly it is in the air as well. Pretty unavoidable in a park setting, with all the people. Flu shot is your best defense. Not 100% effective, but much better than not getting the vaccine. People forget, vaccines help considerably in not spreading illnesses.I realized I didn’t answer your question. For you Toddler the standby line for Peter Pan, Haunted Mansion, Whinny the Pooh and Mine Teain all have interactive set prices that guest can play with in line. We utilized the FP line to avoid these and then BEG not to touch.
Mission Space, Buzz, Toy Story, and Spinner(Dumbo/Carpets/etc) all have things to touch to control the experience. We bee line right to the bathroom to wash hand after these, which was easy because bathrooms are all close to thoose attractions.
Good to hear your tumor situation is under control. Cheers to Good Health and a fantastic vacation
wdw_lisa61
New Member
My sister has cancer and when we fly we wipe everything down. Unfortunately, you can’t make everyone put their hands over their mouths when they sneeze/cough. That being said, take hand sanitizer and try not to worry. Stress makes you more susceptible to getting sick....I take EmergenC twice a day. Stay hydrated, yada , yada, yada... Most of all — HAVE FUN!!!
chad386386
New Member
I thought this was an interesting article written on Wired, about the flu: https://www.wired.com/story/flu-vaccine-big-pharma/
I am not anti-vax. The MMR vaccine is 97% effective, yellow fever vaccine 99% effective. Polio vaccine 90 to 100% effective based on how many doses the patient receives. The harshness of these diseases combined with the effectiveness of the vaccines makes the anti-vax stance hard to defend in these instances.
But this season, the efficacy of the flu shot has been touted as low as 10% by the CDC itself. What other product exists that has a 90% failure rate, but still generates 3 Billion in revenue annually, year after year year.
What's interesting is there is likely a way to make a "universal" flu vaccine, one that you would only need 1 to 3 times in a lifetime. (an initial shot + boosters) Instead of targeting the capsid (the balloon shaped part "head" of the virus, which is highly variable due to the genetic material being here), the tail or end plate can be targeted, which is the same in all flu viruses. But from a business perspective, it doesn't make sense due to a 600 mil facility needed, plus another 1 bill and 5 to 10 years needed to develop it. It wouldn't pay for itself since you wouldn't need it every year, and would have high effectiveness. The better a drug or vaccine is, in terms of needed frequency of use and efficacy, the less profitable.
They even still use an antiquated process of "growing" the vaccines: they grow them in chicken eggs.
The perceived laziness by the industry still rewards them 3 bill a year in revenue.
Vilifying one another doesn't help. I will say I am not certain of what the best approach is in considering the flu vaccine for oneself and their family. I think if one opts against it, one should have a plan as to how to combat infection like vitamin D mega-dosing, combined with Zinc, for example.
But it's ok to question, and to ask questions. The CDC for those of us that work in healthcare, unfortunately has a very poor track record. They do ultimately come up with the correct answer, but are usually 2 decades behind the rest of the research community. The recent opiod crisis is a good example. Atleast they finally got there!
For me, self assessment is very important, this makes belief revision possible. Certainty is the enemy of good. I know this by being faced with data that forced me to give up un-related, long held belief systems in recent years.
What I am certain for is my love of Disney, and my love for all of you guys, the fans that love it as much as me. I wish everyone a healthy, flu-free season.
I am not anti-vax. The MMR vaccine is 97% effective, yellow fever vaccine 99% effective. Polio vaccine 90 to 100% effective based on how many doses the patient receives. The harshness of these diseases combined with the effectiveness of the vaccines makes the anti-vax stance hard to defend in these instances.
But this season, the efficacy of the flu shot has been touted as low as 10% by the CDC itself. What other product exists that has a 90% failure rate, but still generates 3 Billion in revenue annually, year after year year.
What's interesting is there is likely a way to make a "universal" flu vaccine, one that you would only need 1 to 3 times in a lifetime. (an initial shot + boosters) Instead of targeting the capsid (the balloon shaped part "head" of the virus, which is highly variable due to the genetic material being here), the tail or end plate can be targeted, which is the same in all flu viruses. But from a business perspective, it doesn't make sense due to a 600 mil facility needed, plus another 1 bill and 5 to 10 years needed to develop it. It wouldn't pay for itself since you wouldn't need it every year, and would have high effectiveness. The better a drug or vaccine is, in terms of needed frequency of use and efficacy, the less profitable.
They even still use an antiquated process of "growing" the vaccines: they grow them in chicken eggs.
The perceived laziness by the industry still rewards them 3 bill a year in revenue.
Vilifying one another doesn't help. I will say I am not certain of what the best approach is in considering the flu vaccine for oneself and their family. I think if one opts against it, one should have a plan as to how to combat infection like vitamin D mega-dosing, combined with Zinc, for example.
But it's ok to question, and to ask questions. The CDC for those of us that work in healthcare, unfortunately has a very poor track record. They do ultimately come up with the correct answer, but are usually 2 decades behind the rest of the research community. The recent opiod crisis is a good example. Atleast they finally got there!
For me, self assessment is very important, this makes belief revision possible. Certainty is the enemy of good. I know this by being faced with data that forced me to give up un-related, long held belief systems in recent years.
What I am certain for is my love of Disney, and my love for all of you guys, the fans that love it as much as me. I wish everyone a healthy, flu-free season.
clarabellej
Well-Known Member
Shot is not 100% defense, but defense none the less. Wouldn’t everyone want a lesser version of this possibly deadly virus?? To me, it is a no brainer & if I had a small child, I’d be more than a little irritated with the “no vaccine” crowd. My daughter is among those. I am holding my breath, hoping she and her two kids don’t get it. She has respiratory issues. So that’s not good. Scrolling thru here, I saw something about drinking kale drink or something or other. It’s the flu people!!! All the kale and elderberry you want is not going to stop it. If you are exposed, chances are you will come down with it. I had it many years ago & it is no fun. Oddly my youngest daughter had it a month ago & my husband and I did not come down with it. I did the mom thing, supplies plenty of water, took her temp, cleaned out her waste basket. Will be so glad when this season is over. I lost a grandparent in the 1918 epidemic. The story was he went out to feed the chickens & got sick. He died from complications pneumonia. My father was a five month old baby.
Masks are appropriate on the plane. Most of the other suggestions, although not bad, don't help with the flu. It's transmitted by droplets. So a mask is how you protect yourself. In the open, at the parks, you're ok. In a bus, more risk. But all of this is true at home too. So do what you can and have fun.