Status of the flu in DW

[NelleBelle]

As I said, I would not have a child in public school or day care.

I just want to say that as a parent who sends her children to private school, we are required by the school to show proof of vaccination or have written note from physician stating medical reason for lack of vaccination. We sent our children to private preschool as well and it was same policy. It isn't as clear cut as saying, "I'm sending my child to private school so I don't have to vaccinate." More and more private schools are requiring vaccinations for their students.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Would I not be afforded the same social acceptance if I choose to take on the heavy responsibilities of having an unvaccinated child which would mean taking extreme (not just "reasonable") precautions around unvaccinated children or especially newborns or elderly? If taking "reasonable precaution" would excuse my choices that led to a child getting ill, then extreme precautions surely would be excusable as well.

What would be such extremes? A bubble? For most diseases the time period during which one is contagious does not align with the time period during which one is symptomatic.

 

[wdisney9000]

What would be such extremes? A bubble?

Keeping my child away from newborns or infants under 12 months would not be difficult. If my child did not feel well and we had to go out in public, a medical mask (even Disney makes them for kids) would be doing more to help prevent spreading illness than parents whose vaccinated kids are coughing and sneezing everywhere still spreading germs.

Apparently it is socially allowable for your child to contract an illness from another child as long the childs parents play by your rules of allowable choices. The fact that their child could have contracted the illness regardless does not matter? Its strictly about the choices the parent should/could have made, right? Lets say a local karate dojo sends out a flyer to my neighborhood for 50% of lessons. 10 out of 15 parents in my neighborhood have our children take the karate classes together because we all agree with the studies that show learning self defense raises confidence, reduces anxiety and can help prevent being injured in certain situations. The other 5 parents do not sign their kids up because they believe in the studies showing that learning to fight can have negative side affects on a childs psychology. Then, one of the children who took classes gets into a fight and hurts a child who did not take classes. Then, instead of speaking with the child who hurt the other child, we put 100% blame on the parents of the injured childs parents and proceed to bully them for being such bad parents because they chose not to have their kid take some form of self defense and cited the proof that their child would have stood a better chance had they made them take classes with the other kids. Since a majority of the parents agree that the kids should take self defense, they are vindicated in their actions, correct?

For most diseases the time period during which one is contagious does not align with the time period during which one is symptomatic.

This is also true for vaccinated children that still get chickenpox and pass it on. You cant abstractly define the circumstances.

 

[King Panda 77]

 

[lazyboy97o]

Keeping my child away from newborns or infants under 12 months would not be difficult. If my child did not feel well and we had to go out in public, a medical mask (even Disney makes them for kids) would be doing more to help prevent spreading illness than parents whose vaccinated kids are coughing and sneezing everywhere still spreading germs.

Apparently it is socially allowable for your child to contract an illness from another child as long the childs parents play by your rules of allowable choices. The fact that their child could have contracted the illness regardless does not matter? Its strictly about the choices the parent should/could have made, right? Lets say a local karate dojo sends out a flyer to my neighborhood for 50% of lessons. 10 out of 15 parents in my neighborhood have our children take the karate classes together because we all agree with the studies that show learning self defense raises confidence, reduces anxiety and can help prevent being injured in certain situations. The other 5 parents do not sign their kids up because they believe in the studies showing that learning to fight can have negative side affects on a childs psychology. Then, one of the children who took classes gets into a fight and hurts a child who did not take classes. Then, instead of speaking with the child who hurt the other child, we put 100% blame on the parents of the injured childs parents and proceed to bully them for being such bad parents because they chose not to have their kid take some form of self defense and cited the proof that their child would have stood a better chance had they made them take classes with the other kids. Since a majority of the parents agree that the kids should take self defense, they are vindicated in their actions, correct?

This is also true for vaccinated children that still get chickenpox and pass it on. You cant abstractly define the circumstances.

Learning karate has not contributed to dramatic decreases in infant and child mortality.

 

[MisterPenguin]

You know what we need? A new plague. One that is extremely contagious and absolutely deadly. But, there's a vaccine for it.

Natural selection will then take care of the anti-vaxxers.

 

[21stamps]

Keeping my child away from newborns or infants under 12 months would not be difficult. If my child did not feel well and we had to go out in public, a medical mask (even Disney makes them for kids) would be doing more to help prevent spreading illness than parents whose vaccinated kids are coughing and sneezing everywhere still spreading germs.

Apparently it is socially allowable for your child to contract an illness from another child as long the childs parents play by your rules of allowable choices. The fact that their child could have contracted the illness regardless does not matter? Its strictly about the choices the parent should/could have made, right? Lets say a local karate dojo sends out a flyer to my neighborhood for 50% of lessons. 10 out of 15 parents in my neighborhood have our children take the karate classes together because we all agree with the studies that show learning self defense raises confidence, reduces anxiety and can help prevent being injured in certain situations. The other 5 parents do not sign their kids up because they believe in the studies showing that learning to fight can have negative side affects on a childs psychology. Then, one of the children who took classes gets into a fight and hurts a child who did not take classes. Then, instead of speaking with the child who hurt the other child, we put 100% blame on the parents of the injured childs parents and proceed to bully them for being such bad parents because they chose not to have their kid take some form of self defense and cited the proof that their child would have stood a better chance had they made them take classes with the other kids. Since a majority of the parents agree that the kids should take self defense, they are vindicated in their actions, correct?

This is also true for vaccinated children that still get chickenpox and pass it on. You cant abstractly define the circumstances.

People are contagious before showing signs of illness. Unless you wear a mask every time you go out, then there isn’t a way to confidently say “I will keep my unvaccinated child’s germs away from everyone else.”

 

[21stamps]

I just want to say that as a parent who sends her children to private school, we are required by the school to show proof of vaccination or have written note from physician stating medical reason for lack of vaccination. We sent our children to private preschool as well and it was same policy. It isn't as clear cut as saying, "I'm sending my child to private school so I don't have to vaccinate." More and more private schools are requiring vaccinations for their students.

And sports. We only play one sport outside of our school, I needed a notarized medical form stating all immunizations were up to date.
..and about 10 other forms..and a birth certificate..and a head shot..and a vile of blood.

(I may be exaggerating on the last one, but I fully expected someone to ask for it after everything else )

 

[wdisney9000]

Learning karate has not contributed to dramatic decreases in infant and child mortality.

I was referring to the social acceptance aspects of choices a parent makes. You said prior that taking reasonable precautions excuses a choice that has a negative impact such as a child getting chicken pox, not dying.

 

[wdisney9000]

People are contagious before showing signs of illness. Unless you wear a mask every time you go out, then there isn’t a way to confidently say “I will keep my unvaccinated child’s germs away from everyone else.”

Again, the same applies to a child who has been vaccinated but still gets chicken pox and passes it to another child. Those parents are not judged as monsters simply because they had their child vaccinated, but the end result is still the same, i.e their child getting ill. A parent who has their kid vaccinated can not say with any more confidence that they can "keep their childs germs away from everyone else"

 

[21stamps]

Again, the same applies to a child who has been vaccinated but still gets chicken pox and passes it to another child. Those parents are not judged as monsters simply because they had their child vaccinated, but the end result is still the same, i.e their child getting ill. A parent who has their kid vaccinated can not say with any more confidence that they can "keep their childs germs away from everyone else"

I haven’t look up the stats, but I’d guess that the cases of chicken pox in unvaccinated kids is higher than vaccinated kids.

I could be wrong..

 

[lazyboy97o]

I was referring to the social acceptance aspects of choices a parent makes. You said prior that taking reasonable precautions excuses a choice that has a negative impact such as a child getting chicken pox, not dying.

The social acceptance comes from keeping huge numbers of children from dying.

 

[wdisney9000]

You know what we need? A new plague. One that is extremely contagious and absolutely deadly. But, there's a vaccine for it.

Natural selection will then take care of the anti-vaxxers.

If such a plague happened, the law of the jungle could very well take place and people like yourself (who require a plague to kill those you dont like) would perish regardless of receiving you vaccine. Good to know that you would have anybody who disagrees with you die.

 

[wdisney9000]

The social acceptance comes from keeping huge numbers of children from dying.

You are saying chicken pox kills every child who is not vaccinated?

 

[21stamps]

If such a plague happened, the law of the jungle could very well take place and people like yourself (who require a plague to kill those you dont like) would perish regardless of receiving you vaccine. Good to know that you would have anybody who disagrees with you die.

Ok, let’s try to look at this another way. From the unvaccinated child’s perspective.

More and more schools and sports are requiring all vaccinations be up to date. So because of a parent’s distrust of the CDC or medical community, you’re going to let your child be segregated from other kids?
Join an “anti-vax play group”?

What happens to child in that scenario? Why would a parent knowingly choose to do that to a kid?

 

[lazyboy97o]

You are saying chicken pox kills every child who is not vaccinated?

You don’t understand statistics do you?

 

[21stamps]

Ha ha ha. I just googled “Anti-Vax Play Group” out of curiosity. Apparently someone in Australia made one. LOL.

Oh, just when you were hoping that such craziness couldn’t actually exist...
And... there’s the following post..I don’t know whether to laugh or cry at a mind like this..
All those horrible, mean, close minded parents who protect their children from disease...

 

[wdisney9000]

You don’t understand statistics do you?

The original scenario we were discussing about social acceptance was in reference to the fact a child can still get chickenpox from a child who was vaccinated yet still got chickenpox and passed it on, but their parents would not be judged because they took (as you phrased it) reasonable precaution, vs an unvvacinated child passing it on.

Either way, does statistics show that unvaccinated children are increasing the death rate of others? I have yet to see any evidence.

 

[wdisney9000]

Ok, let’s try to look at this another way. From the unvaccinated child’s perspective.

More and more schools and sports are requiring all vaccinations be up to date. So because of a parent’s distrust of the CDC or medical community, you’re going to let your child be segregated from other kids?
Join an “anti-vax play group”?

What happens to child in that scenario? Why would a parent knowingly choose to do that to a kid?

There are also schools that are dropping those mandates that a child be vaccinated. I read something about a few schools who have already done so. Ill try and find the article.

 

[lazyboy97o]

The original scenario we were discussing about social acceptance was in reference to the fact a child can still get chickenpox from a child who was vaccinated yet still got chickenpox and passed it on, but their parents would not be judged because they took (as you phrased it) reasonable precaution, vs an unvvacinated child passing it on.

Either way, does statistics show that unvaccinated children are increasing the death rate of others? I have yet to see any evidence.

Then you should do some research on how much infant and child mortality have improved.