Stark Industries - The Future of the MCU (Open Discussion)

[NateD1226]

...because there hasn't been a new Nick Fury type character introduced that would bring any of these people together, and in Phase 1 that connection was established in the Iron Man Post credit scene

I agree with this statement 100%! Maybe we will get the new Nick Fury in Secret Invasion, but that show is not coming till late 2022/early 2023. Like you mentioned earlier, the wait is still very off. I am sure it will be worth it by the start of 2024, but a little under 3 years is a long time haha.

 

[Disney Dad 3000]

Very much agree with both of you - for me it's that the low hanging inevitable fruits are vaguely announced in the distance (Fantastic Four and X-Men) which in turn also have some of the best villains that could be the next Thanos-level thread (Galactus, Dr. Doom, even Kang, etc)

But having no mention of any of these properties until at the very earliest 2024, is perplexing to me because while I'm stoked for Moon Knight and many of the other shows, it's hard to gauge how they'll impact the grander story because there hasn't been a new Nick Fury type character introduced that would bring any of these people together, and in Phase 1 that connection was established in the Iron Man Post credit scene

Yep, lots of competing story lines. I know it's going to be a D+ show, but I will be curious to see if they take the Multiverse storyline and flow that into the Secret Wars show for a then larger scale movie of Avengers: Secret Wars for lack of a better title tying up Kang, and all of the multiverses (sort of).

 

[spacemt354]

Yep, lots of competing story lines. I know it's going to be a D+ show, but I will be curious to see if they take the Multiverse storyline and flow that into the Secret Wars show for a then larger scale movie of Avengers: Secret Wars for lack of a better title tying up Kang, and all of the multiverses (sort of).

I would think the big showdown would be something like Secret Wars they're leading up to. The Russos even mentioned they would return for that.

The road to get there though is very vague at the moment, maybe intentionally to enjoy what we have now, but at the same time part of the fun of the MCU is theorizing how it all connects which is hard to do when there's so many competing properties.

Like Shang-Chi for instance, if this was Phase 1 or 2, it would probably already be set-up for a sequel for Fall 2023, similar to Iron Man, Thor, etc - but pandemic + too many other properties I'm not sure when we would get that sequel.

 

[spacemt354]

Watched Shang-Chi again... I don't think I'm overreacting

My updated Top MCU movies
1. Captain America: The Winter Soilder
2. Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings
3. Avengers: Infinity War
4. Thor: Ragnarok
5. Guardians of the Galaxy

It was that good!

 

[MickeyWaffleCo.]

14. Thor: Ragnarok

FTFY

 

[spacemt354]

FTFY

 

[NateD1226]

Watched Shang-Chi again... I don't think I'm overreacting

My updated Top MCU movies
1. Captain America: The Winter Soilder
2. Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings
3. Avengers: Infinity War
4. Thor: Ragnarok
5. Guardians of the Galaxy

It was that good!

Your top 3 is solid! Shang-Chi is in mine as well!

FTFY

I have to agree with Waffles here. I did not care for Ragnarok all that much.

 

[spacemt354]

Perhaps it's an acquired taste, but I would like to hear the reasons for it.

To me it's one of the few Marvel movies that was able to take a previously established character and turn them into something much better than what any of the previous incarnations had attempted. I was also already a fan of Taika Waititi from What We Do In The Shadows, so that style of comedy appeals to me.

It's very much in line with why Winter Soldier is at the top, before that film I really was indifferent to the MCU, I saw all the movies, but they were able to turn Captain America into my favorite character in the MCU, and I felt that very similar jolt with Ragnarok as well.

Hard for me to rank that in the middle

 

[MickeyWaffleCo.]

Perhaps it's an acquired taste, but I would like to hear the reasons for it.

To me it's one of the few Marvel movies that was able to take a previously established character and turn them into something much better than what any of the previous incarnations had attempted. I was also already a fan of Taika Waititi from What We Do In The Shadows, so that style of comedy appeals to me.

It's very much in line with why Winter Soldier is at the top, before that film I really was indifferent to the MCU, I saw all the movies, but they were able to turn Captain America into my favorite character in the MCU, and I felt that very similar jolt with Ragnarok as well.

Hard for me to rank that in the middle

It honestly just wasn’t my favorite Marvel movie; it’s difficult to explain why. It was definitely better than the first two Thors, but I think I just went in with high expectations and the movie was just not what I expected at all.

 

[NateD1226]

Perhaps it's an acquired taste, but I would like to hear the reasons for it.

To me it's one of the few Marvel movies that was able to take a previously established character and turn them into something much better than what any of the previous incarnations had attempted. I was also already a fan of Taika Waititi from What We Do In The Shadows, so that style of comedy appeals to me.

It's very much in line with why Winter Soldier is at the top, before that film I really was indifferent to the MCU, I saw all the movies, but they were able to turn Captain America into my favorite character in the MCU, and I felt that very similar jolt with Ragnarok as well.

Hard for me to rank that in the middle

Yeah, I totally understand that. I am Taika fan as well. Jojo Rabbit was a phenomenal film and is in my top 5 of 2019. To me, Ragnarok felt like it focused too much on the comedy and less with the story at hand. Don't get me wrong, I do love a good comedy. This one just felt like it took away from the story they were trying to tell. Plus, Hela was severely underutilized, and she did not feel all that villainous when it came to putting her in the actual narrative of the film.

However, I do agree with your statement that it expanded on Thor. Thor and Thor 2 are in the bottom 5 of the MCU for me. While the overall vibe of Ragnarok is not for me, the character development of Thor was probably the best part of the film.

 

[MickeyWaffleCo.]

To me, Ragnarok felt like it focused too much on the comedy and less with the story at hand. Don't get me wrong, I do love a good comedy. This one just felt like it took away from the story they were trying to tell. Plus, Hela was severely underutilized, and she did not feel all that villainous when it came to putting her in the actual narrative of the film.

This is a very good way to say it.

However, I do agree with your statement that it expanded on Thor. Thor and Thor 2 are in the bottom 5 of the MCU for me.

Tom Hiddleston was literally the only good part of the first two movies

 

[NateD1226]

Tom Hiddleston was literally the only good part of the first two movies

And that is why we have the second (soon to be third) best MCU Disney+ show!

 

[spacemt354]

Yeah, I totally understand that. I am Taika fan as well. Jojo Rabbit was a phenomenal film and is in my top 5 of 2019. To me, Ragnarok felt like it focused too much on the comedy and less with the story at hand. Don't get me wrong, I do love a good comedy. This one just felt like it took away from the story they were trying to tell. Plus, Hela was severely underutilized, and she did not feel all that villainous when it came to putting her in the actual narrative of the film.

However, I do agree with your statement that it expanded on Thor. Thor and Thor 2 are in the bottom 5 of the MCU for me. While the overall vibe of Ragnarok is not for me, the character development of Thor was probably the best part of the film.

That's fair, comedy is subjective. I don't think it relied on it too much but I do think it leaned on it more than the previous 2 Thor films which imo benefited the character. On a higher level I view the absurd adventure of traveling to Sakkar and back was more of a mental distraction from losing his father two years after losing his mother. Then despite being a villain, he loses his sister, then loses his home. And then right after he makes amends with Loki, he loses him too. It really sets up his path of determination in Infinity War well!

 

[comics101]

Have you guys ever read Marvels by Kurt Busiek with art by Alex Ross? Here's a link to the Wikipedia page if you haven't and would like to read plot details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvels.

Marvels takes place between 1939 and the 1970's/1980's and explores the Marvel Universe through the eyes of a photo journalist. It's basically a retelling of major Marvel events from the perspective of an everyman character. I bring up the book because that's the direction I'd take a Marvel project were I given the opportunity to do so. I'd like to see a big budget, limited series taking place over the span of several decades and exploring the effects of Marvel's heroes on the lives of everyday Americans.

I'd also like the project to be a bit more "fanciful" with less focus on making things "believable." I guess what I mean is, I'd like Captain America to look a bit more like his comic book counterpart and less like a soldier. Obviously, I don't want a direct translation of his suit from the 1940's because that would look totally ridiculous, but...you get it lol. Maybe the costumes would be a bit more like the DCEU--say what you will about Batman v Superman and Zack Snyder's universe--the one thing he got 100% right were the suits worn by the actors. Affleck looked incredible as Batman, and Henry Cavill's Superman suit is darn near perfection.

 

[spacemt354]

With Phase 4 coming to a close next month, I wanted to reflect on my thoughts of this era in the MCU and how it can improve.

To me, Phase 4 is this limbo zone where Marvel is hesitant to move on past their known heroes while at the same time introducing an assembly line of new heroes without much relation to each other.

Starting with things out of their control, the pandemic shifted scheduling around from their originally announced Phase 4 intentions. I do think in many ways the Phase could have benefitted from riding the wave of the Endgame hype, giving a wider audience to films like Black Widow, Shang-Chi, and Eternals to kickstart things.

But even with the delays and dilemmas, the significance of each entry into the MCU has been lessened, and that's where my concerns reside.

For example, while looking back at the convo in this thread from a year ago, while we can debate how good of a film Thor: Ragnarok is, at the very least the film had a significant impact on Thor, Hulk, Loki, and introduced other important events into the universe. After watching Thor: Love & Thunder however, I found that film to be grossly underwhelming in terms of its character progression and impact on the wider MCU. It felt more concerned about poor taste cancer jokes and other one-liners than it did evolving the characters. So at the end of the day, did Thor: Love & Thunder need to exist?

But that's where Disney+ comes in because not only does the platform need continuous content to keep people subscribed, but with that requirement Disney is going to use it as a playground to experiment with new characters.

While that sounds good from a creative standpoint, it handicaps the universe from moving forward.
The Infinity Saga (2008-2019) is about 50 hours total.
Phase 4 (2021-2022) clocks in at 50+ hours before She-Hulk and Black Panther.

I love comics, and I love the MCU, but I also have a life. It is just crazy to expect the average person to keep up with all of this. As a fan I should be grateful for so much content, but not if most of it is inconsequential to the overall plot.

The last thing I'll say as this is too long...

A character such as Shang-Chi is someone that can be an 'Iron Man' foundation piece of the MCU. Daredevil and She-Hulk could be the next Wanda/Vision couple of the MCU. Ms. Marvel and Kate Bishop could be more compelling Captain Marvels and Hawkeyes than the previous versions leading a Young Avengers team. Wong in many ways seems to be set up as a magic version of Nick Fury.

What I'm getting at is the pieces are all there for success -- but the presentation so far has led to less of an attachment to these characters than the Infinity Saga was able to generate.