Star Wars themed land announced for Disneyland

[GiveMeTheMusic]

Andy is on crack. That guy lost all credibility when he started talking about putting a x-wing/TIE Fighter spinner on top of the Tomorrowland theater and putting an ewok treehouse in the sub lagoon.

I don't know which Andy you're referring to, but the first major Star Wars expansion plan had an Endor forest replacing Autopia/submarines with a speederbike coaster.

I don't understand why it's hard for Disney fans to understand that just because a rumor doesn't end up happening doesn't mean it's false AT THE TIME. Disney changes plans often. The current Star Wars Land plan didn't exist until some time last year. Before that the plan was to take over Tomorrowland.

MiceAge has been pilloried for their rumors not "coming true", but they have an amazing track record of reporting things as they are planned at the time of reporting. Monstropolis was almost a done deal when they reported that rumor. It then got canned (mercifully). It doesn't mean MiceAge gets nothing right, it means Disney's plans changed. Disney drags their feet on everything but price hikes, so it shouldn't be hard for people to believe that park plans change regularly.

 

[TP2000]

Thank you @GiveMeTheMusic for the reminder of just how right MiceAge has been, historically. I've been reading MiceAge articles (under various brand names and website addresses, but always headed by Al Lutz) since 1999. Over the last 16 years the MiceAge articles have been astonishingly accurate and insightful.

As for the Tomorrowland and Monstropolis plans, did we all forget the big news online in 2013 when WDI had height test balloons floating one day at sunrise? The balloons were floating above MuppetVision/Mad T Party area and the Autopia freeway complex. This was several months after MiceAge had broken the news on the concepts of Monstropolis in that exact area and Star Wars expansion in Autopia.

Imagineers didn't get up at 4:00AM and float a dozen height test balloons 50 feet into the air in those two areas just to see if the wind was blowing that morning. They were planning and plotting and trying to get a few new projects approved.

 

[Travel Junkie]

Interesting take on why Star War's Land is coming to Disneyland. I agree with some things he says disagree with other things.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/disneyland-687969-world-park.html

 

[Phroobar]

Basically escapism is the key and cowboys & indians and small towns of over 100 years ago don't interest people today. If this is so, why is the park packed?

 

[mickEblu]

Basically escapism is the key and cowboys & indians and small towns of over 100 years ago don't interest people today. If this is so, why is the park packed?

Just to play devils advocate I guess the park is packed because the large majority of the attractions are about fantasy and escaping reality.

TSI/ ROA (including all the boats) make up some of the last remaining attractions based in reality. And most of the time these attractions are empty and this space is underutilized. The sheer size of TSI/ ROA don't help their fate either. This was going to happen sooner or later. If not SWL then something else.

I'm just glad that the ROA / TSI aren't completely being eliminated. This actually crossed my mind a few years ago before any SWL rumors. With DL being landlocked, increasing crowds and without many expendable attractions this was a fear I had.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

Interesting take on why Star War's Land is coming to Disneyland. I agree with some things he says disagree with other things.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/disneyland-687969-world-park.html

A very thoughtful article. Thanks for posting.

"Those changes have elicited howls of protests from Disney fans online – something that happens pretty much any time Disney announces changes to Walt’s park. But an undercurrent to these protests reflects that cultural shift that is changing priorities in the industry."

This quote from the article is exactly what I've been saying from the start of this debate. No matter what your opinion is about the changes no one can argue that Disneyland exists in some special universe where outside influences are impenetrable. As much as I love DL at times it feels stuck on nostalgia while struggling to keep up with 21st century audiences. Hollywood film based IP has been driving content at the majority of the biggest theme parks around the globe for decades with huge success, and Disney would be remiss if it didn't jump on the opportunity to bring an exclusive and immersive SW experience to the grandfather of all theme parks. I can't wait.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Interesting take on why Star War's Land is coming to Disneyland. I agree with some things he says disagree with other things.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/disneyland-687969-world-park.html

That is an awful article. It just accepts at face value what Disney does and tries to justify it with old and irrelevant happenings elsewhere. Universal ditched the behind the scene angle 25 years ago and Many of SeaWorld's problems go back to the radical shift from being a publicity arm that didn't need to make money to an independent company that did. 20+ year old decisions are not the cutting edge of the industry. Even the cited changes in Tomorrowland came exclusively from the belief in the inferiority of themed entertainment.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

It just accepts at face value what Disney does and tries to justify it with old and irrelevant happenings elsewhere.

The main point though, that the big upcoming changes to ROA to make way for SW is symbolic of Disneyland reacting to a cultural shift in audience tastes and preferences since the park's launch in the 50s and 60s is valid, wouldn't you agree?

 

[lazyboy97o]

The main point though, that the big upcoming changes to ROA to make way for SW is symbolic of Disneyland reacting to a cultural shift in audience tastes and preferences since the park's launch in the 50s and 60s is valid, wouldn't you agree?

No, the changes are part of decades of saying that themed entertainment is an inferior form of entertainment. Truly adapting to cultural shifts would mean not chasing what people can get at any instant.

 

[TP2000]

That Robert Niles article had some good points, but he lost me entirely when he claimed that the world of 1955 beyond Disneyland's gates was much better than the world of 2015. He couldn't be more wrong.

Try telling that 1955 was better than 2015 to anyone of color, anyone who is female, anyone who is gay, anyone who is disabled, anyone whose lungs stung daily from all the smog, or anyone who died back then when the average life expectancy was 67 years old instead of 78 years old today.

In other news... I really wonder what the new views will look like from the re-routed Disneyland Railroad two years from now? I hope they get rid of that ugly, unthemed and cheap corrugated metal tunnel that Walt installed north of Fantasyland back in the mid 1960's. That part of the current railroad trip is so ugly and boring!

 

[Deleted member 107043]

No, the changes are part of decades of saying that themed entertainment is an inferior form of entertainment.

Who was saying this? Disney or the theme park industry or both?

 

[lazyboy97o]

Who was saying this? Disney or the theme park industry or both?

Disney, which the industry has shamefully kept quiet about because most everyone passes through Disney. For Disney this is an industry where actual experience in the industry makes one disqualified to run the business unit and where running Disneyland is a way out the door.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

That Robert Niles article had some good points, but he lost me entirely when he claimed that the world of 1955 beyond Disneyland's gates was much better than the world of 2015. He couldn't be more wrong.

Good point. However, I do agree that mainstream America at the time was much more optimistic about the future, especially during the Kennedy era, than it is today. There is no question that the change in attitude is reflected in people's preferences in popular entertainment.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

Disney, which the industry has shamefully kept quiet about because most everyone passes through Disney.

When and where did Disney say that themed entertainment is inferior?

 

[lazyboy97o]

When and where did Disney say that themed entertainment is inferior?

It is all in the actions and the repeated statements that the parks must now only be about established franchises.
The only Chairman of Parks and Resorts with industry experience were Paul Pressler and Jay Rasulo (and it was nominal experience).
Matt Ouimet was fired because he thought the above job should go to someone with actual experience and interest in the business.
The second generation of Imagineers, including those behind Disneyland Paris and Tokyo DisneySEA, were pushed out the door.
Continued underinvestment in the parks, and just being better about picking up the trash at the Disneyland Resort does't count as investment.
Serious exploration of selling or spinning off the entire business.
Derisively referring to fans as 'foamers' and 'Walties.'
But hey, they're finally getting around to the painfully obvious investment that even Wall Street analysts were getting annoyed about not being announced, so that must be proof that they love and respect the business.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

Oh ok, conjecture. That's what I assumed, but I thought you might have some inside information to substantiate your claim. I disagree, but I respect your opinion.

 

[Keys_of_Hearts]

It is all in the actions and the repeated statements that the parks must now only be about established franchises.
The only Chairman of Parks and Resorts with industry experience were Paul Pressler and Jay Rasulo (and it was nominal experience).
Matt Ouimet was fired because he thought the above job should go to someone with actual experience and interest in the business.
The second generation of Imagineers, including those behind Disneyland Paris and Tokyo DisneySEA, were pushed out the door.
Continued underinvestment in the parks, and just being better about picking up the trash at the Disneyland Resort does't count as investment.
Serious exploration of selling or spinning off the entire business.
Derisively referring to fans as 'foamers' and 'Walties.'
But hey, they're finally getting around to the painfully obvious investment that even Wall Street analysts were getting annoyed about not being announced, so that must be proof that they love and respect the business.

As Dr. Reinhardt said, that is all merely conjecture and opinion. From your posts you were coming off as if you had factual evidence or statements from Company executives.
And that bit about underinvestment in the parks. That 1.1 billion dollar renovation of DCA, the change from Condor Flats to Grizzly Peak Airfield, Star Wars Land, Pandora, Toy Story Land, Grizzly Gulch and Mystic Point at HKDL, Shanghai Disneyland, and the expansions of Fantasyland at MK and TDL sure does sound like a underinvestment in the parks right guys?

 

[lazyboy97o]

As Dr. Reinhardt said, that is all merely conjecture and opinion. From your posts you were coming off as if you had factual evidence or statements from Company executives.
And that bit about underinvestment in the parks. That 1.1 billion dollar renovation of DCA, the change from Condor Flats to Grizzly Peak Airfield, Star Wars Land, Pandora, Toy Story Land, Grizzly Gulch and Mystic Point at HKDL, Shanghai Disneyland, and the expansions of Fantasyland at MK and TDL sure does sound like a underinvestment in the parks right guys?

And how would I prove any statements? Any quoted would similarly be dismissed as conjecture.

Almost every investment you list was pushed by outside actors, the others held off until the last minute to deal with capacity issues. That you include Hong Kong and even Tokyo is downright laughable.

 

[Keys_of_Hearts]

And how would I prove any statements? Any quoted would similarly be dismissed as conjecture.

Almost every investment you list was pushed by outside actors, the others held off until the last minute to deal with capacity issues. That you include Hong Kong and even Tokyo is downright laughable.

The only time a quote can be considered conjecture is if it's completely out of context (such as taking a few words out of a whole sentence.) Or it has no source to prove it's validity.
And yes you do have a point about Disney being somewhat incompetent when it comes to deciding what goes in the parks, but they are still investing in the parks. Your post make it seem like they have barely been doing anything. Shanghai alone is 3.7 billion and is looking amazing from the concept art and models. The DCA renovation turned California Adventure into a park worthy of being across from Disneyland. Tokyo is finally starting to get its much needed renovations starting with Fantasyland. And due to Grizzly Gulch and Mystic Point Hong Kong is finally starting to get its own identity. Pandora And Rivers of Light will turn Animal Kingdom into a full day park. And while I find all of the closures at DHS to be completely idiotic the park's future looks promising.
And why is including Hong Kong and Tokyo laughable? They are still Disney parks.

 

[lazyboy97o]

The only time a quote can be considered conjecture is if it's completely out of context (such as taking a few words out of a whole sentence.) Or it has no source to prove it's validity.
And yes you do have a point about Disney being somewhat incompetent when it comes to deciding what goes in the parks, but they are still investing in the parks. Your post make it seem like they have barely been doing anything. Shanghai alone is 3.7 billion and is looking amazing from the concept art and models. The DCA renovation turned California Adventure into a park worthy of being across from Disneyland. Tokyo is finally starting to get its much needed renovations starting with Fantasyland. And due to Grizzly Gulch and Mystic Point Hong Kong is finally starting to get its own identity. Pandora And Rivers of Light will turn Animal Kingdom into a full day park. And while I find all of the closures at DHS to be completely idiotic the park's future looks promising.
And why is including Hong Kong and Tokyo laughable? They are still Disney parks.

Mentioning the Asian parks is laughable because of their ownership. Any investment in Tokyo Disney Resort means $0.00 are spent by Disney. Even the Chinese parks are only 47% owned by Disney, so excepting the three land expansion forced due to previous bad faith plans by Disney, all of those numbers have to be cut in half. Shanghai Disney is also all about doing what the Central Government wants to get more media and consumer business.

The Disney's California Adventure expansion came about due to fears that the City of Anaheim would start rezoning surrounding lands. Ever notice how John Lasseter is no longer mentioned in regards to the parks? He pretty much gave up all of his clout to get Cars Land built properly because to Disney the land only needed to impress the six year old boys who had turned Card in a multi-billion dollar you franchise.

Pandora was a knee jerk reaction that remains a joke to the public and industry. It was a desperate move to have a big box office film announced for the parks following the embarrassment of the Wizarding World of Harry Potter's success. It is a decision that did not involve Walt Disney Imagineering and nearly saw Joe join his fellow second generation Imagineers in retirement.

The work at Disney's Hollywood Studios is coming after years of problems and still won't open for years. It is Disney pushed into a corner. The same with Star Wars at Disneyland. Something has to be built to handle the crowds because nothing has been done for two decades at either park to expand capacity.

Disney has no problem spending several hundred million every year on new films, but that sort of investment into rides (ignoring the awful bureaucratic bloat) is spread out over years and spaced out between projects.