Star Wars themed land announced for Disneyland

stlphil

Well-Known Member
There've been a lot of changes along the Rivers of America in the last 60 years, and I think editing this 20 minute experience down to a 15 minute experience (I'm including the five minutes of standing around on the boat waiting for it to leave) is a good thing.

Through the 1970's the back half of the River had a White Man vs. The Indians theme, where the Settlers Cabin was ablaze after Indian attack and a white settler was laid out in front of the burning cabin with an arrow shot into his heart. It was grizzly, and violent, and Politically Incorrect. For decades.
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And there were two Indian Villages seen along the route. Near the cabin was the Unfriendly Indians in their teepees, who attacked this guy. Further along was the Friendly Indians, who are still there today telling stories and making cornmeal and ignoring all the tourists on the Mark Twain. I don't think most folks today realize why that's called the Friendly Indian Village, because originally you first saw the Unfriendly Indians who shoot arrows into white guys hearts and set their cabins on fire.

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The River changed in the past, and it will change in the future. And I'm okay with that, especially if it helps free up room for a kick-butt new land with multiple new E Tickets. Bring it on! Change is good!
With courage in hand, he bravely wades into this discussion...

But here's why I'm not okay with shortening the river.

First of all, change is good. Let me get that point out of the way. A big part of the allure of Disneyland has always been how it has grown over the years. Lots of new stuff to see every time I went, and old stuff plussed. And I don't have any fundamental objection to Star Wars land at Disneyland and hope it will be great. Walt's quote of "Disneyland will never be finished" is often used to justify tearing stuff out, which always amazes me because I suspect he was thinking mostly about adding stuff.

Of course that is (much) harder now that there is less space available. But imagineers have always found creative ways to use the limited land. But that shouldn't include removing part of Disneyland's essential experience.

But before talking more about land, let me talk about Lands. For most of us, Disneyland has always been there, and we take its design for granted, it is just "there" and that is the way it should be. What do I mean by this? For instance, think about its theme. Oh yeah, it doesn't really have a theme. Not like all the other Disney parks that followed, which all have a specific theme. Of course, for all the other Castle parks their theme is "Disneyland", which is a theme now only because Disneyland itself is in our collective consciousness. But Disneyland itself is really just an arbitrary collection of different themes that happened to appeal to Walt. Sure there's the mission statement on the dedication plaque, but a similar statement could have been written about any other small collection of arbitrary themes.

However, it's at this junction of specific themes that Walt's genius and Disneyland's soul coalesce, and provide the defining "Disneyland" experience. I could go on and on about the small number of "defining Disneyland experiences", but let's explicitly examine the river, which certainly falls into this category of defining experiences.

As many have pointed out, part of the experience is the vista from the Frontierland/New Orleans Square/Critter Country riverbanks. In my opinion this is by far the best bit of place making at Disneyland, and among the best in any Disney park. Made better by the addition of NOS (see, change can be good), not so much but still okay by the addition of CC. But the vista itself is just part of the story from the river banks. When the Mark Twain disappears around the bend, it excites the imagination as it steams into adventure in the wilderness.

Which finally leads into the other part of the essential Disneyland experience provided by the river, which is the adventure of actually riding the boat into the wilderness. This doesn't come from what you see on the ride which is practically irrelevant, it's the sense of leaving the known and comfortable behind and exploring the wilderness. There are places even in modern times on the real rivers of America that still feel wild and untamed and mysterious. For example, at the Tennessee River near Shiloh I got a powerful Déjà Vu moment and realized later that it was a reflection on exploring the untamed Rivers of America while riding the Mark Twain. Many places on the Missouri River and even the Mississippi still provide this, too. There was no burning settler's cabin or Indian village (friendly or unfriendly), nor are they needed, although on the ride they (or alternatives) provide an additional bit of temporal displacement to add to the feeling of remoteness. What is needed is the escape from the crowd, from what you could see from the banks, and a sense of getting removed away from them, mystery and exploration. Food for the imagination. To the extent that shortening the river loses some of this essential part of the story, this essential Disneyland experience provided by one of Walt's inspired themes, a bit of the soul of Disneyland is lost. And I don't see how it can be otherwise if at least 2/3 of the experience will be "standing around on the boat waiting for it to leave" along with steaming by the public spaces.

This idea of essential story, true theming, is what made Disneyland great in the first place, and many people still appreciate it and don't want to lose even a part of it because it is, after all, "essential".
 

phillip sugarman

Well-Known Member
I dont know whether he is very credible or not but Andy Castro from Micechat posted on his Twitter that he heard the Master plans for Disneyland include building a third park in the near future themed to Star Wars and Marvel along with the Marvel Land planned for California Adventure and the already announced Star Wars Land at the Big Thunder Ranch. Oh and also he says that he is hearing that Disneyland may take out a chunk of Toontown still to accommodate the Star Wars Land.
 

Californian Elitist

Well-Known Member
Why build a theme park dedicated to Star Wars when they're building an entire land based on Star Wars? That doesn't make sense. And the rumor is Marvel is going into DCA.

I'm getting tired of hearing about rumors, honestly.
 

JediMasterMatt

Well-Known Member
Howdy gang! I don't have much time to catch up; but, I wanted to share a bit of what I can.

First off, Disneyland Resort really was a diamond this summer. The parks were in great shape when we visited and the new entertainment offerings (except Celebrate!... how could that have missed the mark more?) are fantastic.

I did spend some time with my "special friends" while we were visiting and we discussed the future - mostly Anaheim; but, some of Orlando.

Rivers of America - yes, it stinks. Everyone acknowledges that it's a bitter pill; but, they assured me that they will make the best of it they can. The loss of the northern portion of the river will never be able to replaced; but, care is being taken to keep the spirit of the river alive. There will be more "stuff" in the reduced course. I was told that viewing angles into the expansion shouldn't be a concern when looking north. I'm skeptical; but, cautiously optimistic that the result will be satisfactory given the circumstances.

Fantasmic! - they didn't know the specifics; but, it will change. Hopefully, it will have a better 2.0 than WoC Celebrate! (again, yuck).

Canoes - based on what I was told, they will go into Yesterland. I hope not; but, what was said is that the new River will be busier with the TSL's rafts, the Twain, and Columbia all fighting for space.

ok... now the big stuff (which I can't talk much about)

Even with all of the negative news about the changes... I'm still excited by what will be gained in Star Wars land.

I need to be careful, as I'm sure with the Mystery Box levels of security around all the franchise, I don't want any of my friends to get in trouble, I'll just provide two high level thoughts for everyone to consider.

The lessons that Universal Creative provided to the industry have been well learned. The LAND will be the focus of this expansion. Cast Members and guests will all play a part in this new venture. Immersion 101.

While everyone seems to have focused on the Millennium Falcon, you shouldn't forget about the other attraction the "Adventure/Battle/Resistance" one. That one has my attention.

The future looks bright in Anaheim. We just need to go through some growing pains to get there.
 
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Deleted member 107043

It is sad. To me this is a bigger loss than the top of the island because the canoes lent an air of authenticity to the whole frontier scene. From a staffing standpoint I figure they're relatively expensive to operate and a pretty forgettable experience for modern-day guests. If they do survive the changes I'll be surprised.
 
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ajrwdwgirl

Premium Member
Sad about the Canoes. It was always funny seeing tourists struggle with the paddles. It seemed like a couple of people would really paddle while the others added resistance or didn't paddle at all.

I liked the canoes, but I am a person who know how to properly paddle a canoe. Last time I was stuck between two people who didn't know what to do and would just let the paddles drag. Kind of annoying but still it is fun to do the canoes.
 

Old Mouseketeer

Well-Known Member
Walt used the Fair to fund many of his projects. The attractions were designed and built with the idea of them being transferred to Disneyland. I could be wrong but I think they ended up building a second version of Lincoln for Disneyland instead of taking the Worlds Fair version, but it was always going to come to Disneyland.

You are, in fact, mistaken. It was documented in the Disneyland 50th exhibit at the Oakland Museum of California that originated at the Henry Ford Museum that the Lincoln presentation had two A-A figures that could be exchanged via a trapdoor lift. When they never needed to substitute the backup, Walt accelerated the addition of Lincoln to Disneyland for the Tencennial celebration, even as the NY World's Fair continued for a second summer. The exhibit not only featured one of the original Lincoln A-A figures, but also the lid of the wooden shipping crate with the mailing label from the World's Fair to Imagineering.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
I was told that viewing angles into the expansion shouldn't be a concern when looking north. I'm skeptical; but, cautiously optimistic that the result will be satisfactory given the circumstances.

Thank you for the latest scoop!

Of course the views north wouldn't be a concern. How could they be? As of now the views north on the Rivers of America is really only on the western side of the island, and that view is of a bank of trees in the middle distance. That view is certainly able to be recreated when that right hand turn happens 50 yards further south from its current point.

And when the leaves fall off in November, you can see Mickey & Friends! ;)
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