Star Wars themed land announced for Disneyland

[Old Mouseketeer]

I made this picture last night before I read @Old Mouseketeer 's post; I think it gets pretty close to 14 acres without destroying too much of TSI. It would also allow you to connect in Critter Country, the old Big Thunder Ranch area, and maybe even the IASW area (or they could build a small dark ride on the grave of the Fantasyland theater).

The easiest place to expand the orange area further would be that white-roofed building near the M&F ramps, but that's the parade building. The buildings right behind Toontown are ones that I think people said were expendable, so there could either be a show building that snakes back there, or they could build a new parade building behind Toontown and build some of Star Wars on the parade building site.

Great map! And kudos to TP2000 for great comments!

My Rebel Spies have started reporting in and there are a few new details that support the outside perimeter of your map. The gray line you drew representing a rerouted DLRR track is still a complete open question. But the area between the current berm and the boundary at the top and left of your map (North and West) is confirmed.

I have no evidence to support any impact on Fantasyland Theater or the tunnel/overpass for DLRR to the West of Toon Town Station. The cast of Magical Map is contracted through May 2016 and I don't see that Theater leaving. This would mean that the boundary on the Left/East side of your Orange Zone would go straight down/South from the Upper Right/Northeast corner.

Here is what my spies tell me, starting from the West of Toon Town:

1. Circle D Ranch will close. CMs have been notified that the horses will be relocated to Anaheim Hills and the other animals adopted out.

2. Recycling Center, on the Southwest corner of Circle D, I have no info, but it can't stay because it would be landlocked.

3. Horticulture, to the West of the Northern half of Circle D, and against Disneyland Drive, will relocate just north of Indy. The offices will take over the trailers currently occupied by WDI, which will relocate to the larger of the buildings on Manchester that Disney just bought. The nurseries will go on the North side of the Westsider CM Cafe and will be located West of Mansion and ODV.

4. Transportation Center (i.e., Motor Pool and Gas Station) which is directly West of Recycling and immediately to the North of Winston Gate will move to the 100 building which is the largest warehouse building in the Northwest corner of the main property near the intersection of Ball and Disneyland Drive. This includes vehicle maintenance for everything for everything from Parking Lot Trams to Autopia to MS Streetcars. At least half the warehouse space is being relocated off-site.

5. Staff Shops North of Pooh Bear to the top of RoA are relocating off-site. This includes Paint, Mill, Metal, and Cycle Shops.

I believe that SWL will occupy at least 90% of the area you show to the Northwest of the existing berm outside DLRR and RoA. What is less clear are the following:

A. Big Thunder Ranch--Will SWL extend all the way down to Big Thunder Trail at the North of BTRR, and how wide will it be? What will be the configuration of the transition through (under?) the RR tracks?

B. Island/River/Train--Will there be a shrinking of the Island/RoA and rerouting of DLRR, and in what configuration?

C. Critter Country--Will there be a connection between CC and SWL and what about Hungry Bear?

D. Fantasmic!--Will it return (I think yes)? What about the dock for the Princess Barges/Tick Tock/ and Utility Boat? If they reroute RoA/RR is there a possibility of a tunnel to the Island? Will they update the show?

E. Winston Gate Security/Locker Room/Cast Costuming--This is between Horticulture to the North and Staff Shops to the South. It's a toss-up whether this will stay in its entirety. It's possible they could replace the staffed Security post with an automated Cast Entrance like they are installing at H5, Hollywood, and Paradise Pier Gates and move the other facilities North of SWL.

F. Will there be more substantial features to SWL than what has been announced?

G. Frontierland/NO RR Station--Will they revive the old (1970s/80s) idea to relocate the station to Critter Country, roughly around Hungry Bear/Pooh?

H. Fantasyland/Toon Town Connector--Will there be any connection to SWL from between Gadget and MM House or between Fantasyland Theater and TT/FL Station? My amateur opinion from memory is that latter might be easier to engineer. It might be sufficient to connect from BTR to CC.

That's the latest that my Flying Monkeys have to report. I was stunned at how quickly I got reports back after I put the word out. Apparently the buzz among CMs has been fierce. And I didn't even have to sleep with an Imagineer like one (in)famous blogger! LOL

Thanks again to Cosmic Commando for the map. I'll update when I have any new info, but I think it may be a while. Thanks, everyone, for the kind comments.

 

[TP2000]

Great map! And kudos to TP2000 for great comments!

My Rebel Spies have started reporting in and there are a few new details that support the outside perimeter of your map. The gray line you drew representing a rerouted DLRR track is still a complete open question. But the area between the current berm and the boundary at the top and left of your map (North and West) is confirmed.

I have no evidence to support any impact on Fantasyland Theater or the tunnel/overpass for DLRR to the West of Toon Town Station. The cast of Magical Map is contracted through May 2016 and I don't see that Theater leaving. This would mean that the boundary on the Left/East side of your Orange Zone would go straight down/South from the Upper Right/Northeast corner.

Here is what my spies tell me, starting from the West of Toon Town:

1. Circle D Ranch will close. CMs have been notified that the horses will be relocated to Anaheim Hills and the other animals adopted out.

2. Recycling Center, on the Southwest corner of Circle D, I have no info, but it can't stay because it would be landlocked.

3. Horticulture, to the West of the Northern half of Circle D, and against Disneyland Drive, will relocate just north of Indy. The offices will take over the trailers currently occupied by WDI, which will relocate to the larger of the buildings on Manchester that Disney just bought. The nurseries will go on the North side of the Westsider CM Cafe and will be located West of Mansion and ODV.

4. Transportation Center (i.e., Motor Pool and Gas Station) which is directly West of Recycling and immediately to the North of Winston Gate will move to the 100 building which is the largest warehouse building in the Northwest corner of the main property near the intersection of Ball and Disneyland Drive. This includes vehicle maintenance for everything for everything from Parking Lot Trams to Autopia to MS Streetcars. At least half the warehouse space is being relocated off-site.

5. Staff Shops North of Pooh Bear to the top of RoA are relocating off-site. This includes Paint, Mill, Metal, and Cycle Shops.

I believe that SWL will occupy at least 90% of the area you show to the Northwest of the existing berm outside DLRR and RoA. What is less clear are the following:

A. Big Thunder Ranch--Will SWL extend all the way down to Big Thunder Trail at the North of BTRR, and how wide will it be? What will be the configuration of the transition through (under?) the RR tracks?

B. Island/River/Train--Will there be a shrinking of the Island/RoA and rerouting of DLRR, and in what configuration?

C. Critter Country--Will there be a connection between CC and SWL and what about Hungry Bear?

D. Fantasmic!--Will it return (I think yes)? What about the dock for the Princess Barges/Tick Tock/ and Utility Boat? If they reroute RoA/RR is there a possibility of a tunnel to the Island? Will they update the show?

E. Winston Gate Security/Locker Room/Cast Costuming--This is between Horticulture to the North and Staff Shops to the South. It's a toss-up whether this will stay in its entirety. It's possible they could replace the staffed Security post with an automated Cast Entrance like they are installing at H5, Hollywood, and Paradise Pier Gates and move the other facilities North of SWL.

F. Will there be more substantial features to SWL than what has been announced?

G. Frontierland/NO RR Station--Will they revive the old (1970s/80s) idea to relocate the station to Critter Country, roughly around Hungry Bear/Pooh?

H. Fantasyland/Toon Town Connector--Will there be any connection to SWL from between Gadget and MM House or between Fantasyland Theater and TT/FL Station? My amateur opinion from memory is that latter might be easier to engineer. It might be sufficient to connect from BTR to CC.

That's the latest that my Flying Monkeys have to report. I was stunned at how quickly I got reports back after I put the word out. Apparently the buzz among CMs has been fierce. And I didn't even have to sleep with an Imagineer like one (in)famous blogger! LOL

Thanks again to Cosmic Commando for the map. I'll update when I have any new info, but I think it may be a while. Thanks, everyone, for the kind comments.

Wow! I had just settled in for the night with a good class of cognac, but this post made for an even better nightcap!

Fascinating reading, and fascinating to think about.

The top floor of the Mickey & Friends parking structure will be a popular place to check on the status of this project for the next few years.

 

[NobodyElse]

TP2000: I've got a quick semi-related question/comment. It seems like you had previously mentioned that Disney owned the property bordered by Clementine / Disney Way / 5 freeway. I noticed that buildings are already being razed, but I find it odd that the old Bergstrom building still has a "For Sale or Lease" sign displayed. Do you think that Disney is actually willing to sell that small chunk of property, or is it just a ploy to keep up appearances that they don't own everything in that area? Just curious. Thanks.

 

[culturenthrills]

I understand why it is being done but it just irks me that they are doing this during the 60th celebration. Attendance this past summer was up 15%. This is gonna create even more of a mess especially if they go through with installing their version of FP+ in Anaheim. Can't wait to see the disaster that causes when they add FP to a bunch of atttractions that didn't have it.

I was planning to go for the 60th next year but I may have to scramble to go after New Years since to get there since Fantasmic has only been running once on my past visits. I swear that show has been down more than it has been up the last 5 years.

 

[britain]

Crossing my fingers hoping that somehow FP+ will put the Indy queue to the better use it was intended for.

 

[build_it]

I thought this might be fun for conversation - I realize this is armchair Imagineering, but was doodling out some things based on conversations. These are just some thoughts and my opinion, not based on 1st hand knowledge, etc.

I do think, if I were in their shoes, I would put a fairly large ride building in the corner near toontown for fireworks fallout. I also think there is no reason to loose the theatre in this process, and that after ROA and the RR are relocated, the rest of DL can function normally, without much disruption (from a guests perspective).

Red = new RR track
Blue = new ROA path
Orange is new pathways/open areas
Box shapes would be buildings
Gray = new backstage roads/parking.

 

[britain]

Very cool - although I'm now starting to think that there will be no route from Critter Country to Star Wars. MiceAge mentioned the changes happening just beyond the Hungry Bear.

 

[Stevek]

Very cool - although I'm now starting to think that there will be no route from Critter Country to Star Wars. MiceAge mentioned the changes happening just beyond the Hungry Bear.

I almost think there has to be ala Cars Land. It makes absolute sense to finally open up that dead end as it will take alot of the pressure off entries near BTMRR.

 

[Old Mouseketeer]

TP2000: I've got a quick semi-related question/comment. It seems like you had previously mentioned that Disney owned the property bordered by Clementine / Disney Way / 5 freeway. I noticed that buildings are already being razed, but I find it odd that the old Bergstrom building still has a "For Sale or Lease" sign displayed. Do you think that Disney is actually willing to sell that small chunk of property, or is it just a ploy to keep up appearances that they don't own everything in that area? Just curious. Thanks.

I have wondered about this, as well. I think the key question is how the first phase of the new East Parking Structure in Pumbaa Lot and the smaller building on Manchester will be accessed from I-5 Fwy. Remember, it is intended primarily to serve guests driving up from the South as Mickey and Friends does those from the North. There was a rumor that Anaheim was unhappy with the prospect of handling all this traffic on Disney Way, entering Pumbaa from the South Side.

It's possible that the Clementine property could be the footprint for new elevated on/offramps and approach to the new structure. But I agree it would be easier with the Bergstrom property.

Alternatively, it could be for more CM parking, at least in the near term.

 

[Old Mouseketeer]

I thought this might be fun for conversation - I realize this is armchair Imagineering, but was doodling out some things based on conversations. These are just some thoughts and my opinion, not based on 1st hand knowledge, etc.

I do think, if I were in their shoes, I would put a fairly large ride building in the corner near toontown for fireworks fallout. I also think there is no reason to loose the theatre in this process, and that after ROA and the RR are relocated, the rest of DL can function normally, without much disruption (from a guests perspective).

Red = new RR track
Blue = new ROA path
Orange is new pathways/open areas
Box shapes would be buildings
Gray = new backstage roads/parking.

View attachment 112658

Good work. I just did a new guestimate of acreage for just the portion between the existing berm/RR to the North and West boundaries you show, from Toon Town to Pooh Bear and I get 14.66 acres. However, there are so many unknown factors, such as other backstage support structures that may be "carve-outs" from the total so it's easy to be plus/minus an acre or two. It's still possible they could change Island/RR/Berm.

However, I don't see them cutting the corner on the East end approaching Toon Town Station as sharply as you show. My guess would be an "S" curve with the new track emerging from behind Hungry Bear, curving through where the present curve of the river is then curving back up through the middle of Festival Arena to rejoin the existing tunnel before Fan Theater and TT Station. Reengineering that tunnel and the vehicle/pedestrian underpass below it would be costly and unjustified IMHO. YMMV.

 

[TP2000]

TP2000: I've got a quick semi-related question/comment. It seems like you had previously mentioned that Disney owned the property bordered by Clementine / Disney Way / 5 freeway. I noticed that buildings are already being razed, but I find it odd that the old Bergstrom building still has a "For Sale or Lease" sign displayed. Do you think that Disney is actually willing to sell that small chunk of property, or is it just a ploy to keep up appearances that they don't own everything in that area? Just curious. Thanks.

I only got the information I did, long before Disney fessed up to it and the local newspaper caught on to it, from a few cocktail parties I had been to with some local real estate movers n' shakers. So please don't think I'm the definitive source on this stuff, as it's not coming officially from Disney.

But it did turn out to be right info, so apparently I get invited to the right parties.

That said, the folks at the parties know who Disney's go-to real estate whiz is, and this person buys up land for Disney as a third party and makes a tidy profit. The Bergstrom's property was part of that conversation, and Bergstrom's absolutely refused to sell out to anything related to Disney a few years ago. But time and reality finally caught up to Bergstrom's and they went out of business.

I have noticed the "For Sale or Lease" sign on the closed Bergstrom's and I have also noticed it is being handled by a commercial real estate firm that is not connected to Disney's go-to firm nor are they a local outfit. I'm sure negotiations are ongoing now that the property is finally up for sale, but Bergstrom's was furious with Disney and the city of Anaheim for boxing them in like they did with the new street layout in the late 1990's and held that grudge into the 2010's. They may have told the new agent to "Sell or Lease" to anyone who is not Disney or Disney's third-party real estate whiz.

This is all silly and petty on Bergstrom's part, but I remember that Bergstrom's was a real fly in the ointment as Disney bought up all that land some time ago.

 

[Californian Elitist]

http://micechat.com/111703-miceage-star-wars-disneyland/?_ga=1.200438830.1891838526.1443568185

 

[NobodyElse]

^^ Thanks for the further clarification TP2000.

 

[TP2000]

http://micechat.com/111703-miceage-star-wars-disneyland/?_ga=1.200438830.1891838526.1443568185

Wow, how did I miss that today? Thanks for the link @raven24

 

[TP2000]

I thought this might be fun for conversation - I realize this is armchair Imagineering, but was doodling out some things based on conversations. These are just some thoughts and my opinion, not based on 1st hand knowledge, etc.

I do think, if I were in their shoes, I would put a fairly large ride building in the corner near toontown for fireworks fallout. I also think there is no reason to loose the theatre in this process, and that after ROA and the RR are relocated, the rest of DL can function normally, without much disruption (from a guests perspective).

Red = new RR track
Blue = new ROA path
Orange is new pathways/open areas
Box shapes would be buildings
Gray = new backstage roads/parking.

View attachment 112658

Thank you for that! It's a great map and fun to look at.

And it's the same map I had in my mind's eye when this whole Rivers of America topic was broached, and the reason why I quickly got excited about the park-wide prospects here. There's a lot of great potential here!

 

[Mouse Trap]

I only got the information I did, long before Disney fessed up to it and the local newspaper caught on to it, from a few cocktail parties I had been to with some local real estate movers n' shakers. So please don't think I'm the definitive source on this stuff, as it's not coming officially from Disney.

But it did turn out to be right info, so apparently I get invited to the right parties.

That said, the folks at the parties know who Disney's go-to real estate whiz is, and this person buys up land for Disney as a third party and makes a tidy profit. The Bergstrom's property was part of that conversation, and Bergstrom's absolutely refused to sell out to anything related to Disney a few years ago. But time and reality finally caught up to Bergstrom's and they went out of business.

I have noticed the "For Sale or Lease" sign on the closed Bergstrom's and I have also noticed it is being handled by a commercial real estate firm that is not connected to Disney's go-to firm nor are they a local outfit. I'm sure negotiations are ongoing now that the property is finally up for sale, but Bergstrom's was furious with Disney and the city of Anaheim for boxing them in like they did with the new street layout in the late 1990's and held that grudge into the 2010's. They may have told the new agent to "Sell or Lease" to anyone who is not Disney or Disney's third-party real estate whiz.

This is all silly and petty on Bergstrom's part, but I remember that Bergstrom's was a real fly in the ointment as Disney bought up all that land some time ago.

Just out of curiosity could someone tell me what land or properties Disney owns (or rumored to own) in the area surrounding DL.

I've always heard they own a lot of those little properties, but I'd like a simple list if anyone could do that.

 

[TP2000]

Just out of curiosity could someone tell me what land or properties Disney owns (or rumored to own) in the area surrounding DL.

I've always heard they own a lot of those little properties, but I'd like a simple list if anyone could do that.

That type of information is more guarded than the recipe for Coca-Cola locked in a vault in Atlanta.

A few months ago the media finally caught on to this story and via city records was able to piece together some of the recent property Disney has purchased, such as 1515 South Manchester, 1585 South Manchester and 1622-66 South Clementine. There was also the big news about Disney buying the Carousel Inn at 1530 S Harbor which connects perfectly to all that other property on Manchester.

Disney also owns the entire triangle shaped piece of land (except for the Del Taco on the corner) bounded by Katella, Manchester, and Anaheim Blvd. This used to be a Fuddruckers and a nightclub called The Cowboy Boogie. This property has been surrounded by green tarped fence for years, and was used as a contractor staging lay-down area for arriving supplies and steel for the various DCA Makeover construction projects. They just tore down the big nightclub building itself last month, and now there is even more room for construction staging before the supplies are sent over to Star Wars Land.

As for the rest? Only the shadow knows. And a very happy real estate agent in Villa Park.

 

[lazyboy97o]

That type of information is more guarded than the recipe for Coca-Cola locked in a vault in Atlanta.

The recipe for Coca-Cola has been published a few times. But likewise, property ownership is public record and, as you note about the recent news 'stories,' can be traced.

 

[1023]

That type of information is more guarded than the recipe for Coca-Cola locked in a vault in Atlanta.

A few months ago the media finally caught on to this story and via city records was able to piece together some of the recent property Disney has purchased, such as 1515 South Manchester, 1585 South Manchester and 1622-66 South Clementine. There was also the big news about Disney buying the Carousel Inn at 1530 S Harbor which connects perfectly to all that other property on Manchester.

Disney also owns the entire triangle shaped piece of land (except for the Del Taco on the corner) bounded by Katella, Manchester, and Anaheim Blvd. This used to be a Fuddruckers and a nightclub called The Cowboy Boogie. This property has been surrounded by green tarped fence for years, and was used as a contractor staging lay-down area for arriving supplies and steel for the various DCA Makeover construction projects. They just tore down the big nightclub building itself last month, and now there is even more room for construction staging before the supplies are sent over to Star Wars Land.

As for the rest? Only the shadow knows. And a very happy real estate agent in Villa Park.

There are currently several groups of homes owned by holdings companies and managed by property management companies. The area adjacent to and west of the hotels (PP,DH) and the parking structure.(North of Katella up to Laster). There is also another "good neighbor" acquisition in the works which you already know.

*1023*

 

[TP2000]

The recipe for Coca-Cola has been published a few times.

Really? It has? I bet the folks at Pepsi had a good laugh over that.