Star Wars Land Demand vs Capacity

[juniorthomas]

IDK I dont feel like Disney can open a new gate on Florida, Its kind of strange but i cant see that massive inversion. I know it has been done, I can feel that they can build 3 parks overseas but I found it really hard to think of a brand new park in the US. I know that universal might open a new gate in the near future but i cant imagine Disney. I think maybe because Disney has some sort of a "higher cost" on building as its expected to give a better result. Maybe because Disney is the lider on Theme Parks, and maybe its really risky to invest on a new park when they might need the money on the current park or have the money to contrarest any universal move but for that then universal has to move first.

Maybe it's a bad legacy of previous administrations (Eisner) with Eurodisney, Disney california adventure and "westcot. I know those are a succes right now, but I am not if nowadays administrations and shareholders will accept that kind of risk.

Just a feeling, nothing else...

I'm not sure why people are so big on additional gates in Florida. I'd much rather they plus the existing gates than add new ones. While I'm sure they could come up with a new angle for a unique gate, I'm not convinced it would provide enough separation to justify the tremendous expense. They should instead put all that money into both paying me for my ideas and giving me CEO level access to each park, in perpetuity. I mean, it's the least they could do for the tens of comments I've posted on here. Right? Right.

 

[SirWillow]

I'm not sure why people are so big on additional gates in Florida. I'd much rather they plus the existing gates than add new ones. While I'm sure they could come up with a new angle for a unique gate, I'm not convinced it would provide enough separation to justify the tremendous expense. They should instead put all that money into both paying me for my ideas and giving me CEO level access to each park, in perpetuity. I mean, it's the least they could do for the tens of comments I've posted on here. Right? Right.

LOL I'd give you CEO status.

One of the mail reasons for a 5th gate is how (over)crowded the parks currently are- it would give another large place for those crowds to go and spread out a bit, making all of the parks nicer and more manageable.

And particularly with Star Wars, which is an IP that can likely support an entire park of it's own.

Or they could base an entire park around space/ the future. Then use it to bring in other such properties they don't use, like The Black Hole, Treasure Planet, and others. (and yes, ok, I'm dreaming big about things that will never happen here)

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I find it astonishing there’s this much confidence In further expansion and “growing” fan base when Star Wars has never been in this precarious of a position since 1977...

Even the “dead” years 1985-1994ish didn’t have this kind of negative juju in the winds.

The parks will be packed because we’re in travel boom and lack of expansion to stay ahead of crowds has caught up to Disney...so it will be mobbed.

But Star Wars isn’t their marquee franchise...it’s no longer close...so if they do expand - it would have to be because of sheer, uncomfortable demand.

Do we want that? No...we certainly do not. The upsells have gone too far already and there is little joy in prescheduled, limited “fun” as is. Worse is not better

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I'm not sure why people are so big on additional gates in Florida. I'd much rather they plus the existing gates than add new ones. While I'm sure they could come up with a new angle for a unique gate, I'm not convinced it would provide enough separation to justify the tremendous expense. They should instead put all that money into both paying me for my ideas and giving me CEO level access to each park, in perpetuity. I mean, it's the least they could do for the tens of comments I've posted on here. Right? Right.

There will never be an additional “traditional” gate in Florida.

That is because of labor/overhead costs, lack of free time available to the consumer, and notably the park cannibalization effect that was already experienced at DAK.

To put it simple...you can’t split your consumers 5 ways...and if you can’t - you are wasting money.

 

[juniorthomas]

There will never be an additional “traditional” gate in Florida.

That is because of labor/overhead costs, lack of free time available to the consumer, and notably the park cannibalization effect that was already experienced at DAK.

To put it simple...you can’t split your consumers 5 ways...and if you can’t - you are wasting money.

Exactly. So, give that money to me for my own vacationing purposes. Glad we're on the same page here.

 

[Disney.Mike]

The World of Avatar is a beautiful place that lends itself well to an AK park that wishes to focus on fantasy (aside from the "real"). But lets be honest about the franchise... Its nothing but a thinly veiled jab at how white people colonized North America... You know the evil outsides came and lied, abused, killed, and stole from the noble natives.

If Avatar was released 2 years earlier (before the 3d effects were there) or 2 years later (after there were no longer new), it would be regarded as a mediocre kids movie and forgotten in the great movie vault of history.

 

[DisneyJill]

The good news is we will get a headsup on how insane it will be based on a couple months of Anaheim.

i think DL GE and DHS GE will be comparing apples and oranges. from an attraction standpoint they will be identical, but crowd control, reservations, etc...won't be the same. disneyland is a transient park and people don't go there for a week+ on vacation like they do WDW. they won't be able to measure or predict WDW from DL.

i wouldn't think.

 

[Disney.Mike]

i think DL GE and DHS GE will be comparing apples and oranges. from an attraction standpoint they will be identical, but crowd control, reservations, etc...won't be the same. disneyland is a transient park and people don't go there for a week+ on vacation like they do WDW. they won't be able to measure or predict WDW from DL.

i wouldn't think.

The best part of having SW:GE opening in DL is that people from out west wont be making a trip to WDW just for SW:GE

Make sense?

 

[DisneyJill]

The best part of having SW:GE opening in DL is that people from out west wont be making a trip to WDW just for SW:GE

Make sense?

yes lol

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The best part of having SW:GE opening in DL is that people from out west wont be making a trip to WDW just for SW:GE

Make sense?

You are far overestimating the crossover there...Disneyland is gonna be a problem...WDW is screwed. At least until late 2020 when other stuff comes on line.

You don’t build the same size for double the crowds. We’ll know by 9/3 or so...

 

[RaveOnEd]

That's probably a good point. Avatar was a major spectacle and global sensation that everybody wanted to experience and enjoy. It wasn't something that people devoted themselves to like Star Wars, Harry Potter, or the MCU. I doubt that many people really watch Avatar over and over again on DVD.

Indeed. My wife got Avatar on DVD when it came out, watched it and the extras around that time, and it's now been in the extra DVDs stored in the basement since. There hasn't been a desire to watch it again since.

Makes me wonder how the sequels will fare, given the time between. On top of that, watching the movie a second time revealed a lot of bad writing that made it more an overrated movie for me than anything.

Beyond that, I love the area in AK. Beautiful theming and the one ride (the Na'vi River) was nicely done. But you could name it anything and the look and ride technology would still be as impressive. It didn't need to be named for Avatar.

 

[joshjoned]

i think DL GE and DHS GE will be comparing apples and oranges. from an attraction standpoint they will be identical, but crowd control, reservations, etc...won't be the same. disneyland is a transient park and people don't go there for a week+ on vacation like they do WDW. they won't be able to measure or predict WDW from DL.

i wouldn't think.

DL is already a MUCH busier park than DHS. Seems to me that GE being added to DL will be much "busier" than GE being added to DHS, at least IMO.

 

[yedliW]

I'm not sure why people are so big on additional gates in Florida. I'd much rather they plus the existing gates than add new ones. While I'm sure they could come up with a new angle for a unique gate, I'm not convinced it would provide enough separation to justify the tremendous expense. They should instead put all that money into both paying me for my ideas and giving me CEO level access to each park, in perpetuity. I mean, it's the least they could do for the tens of comments I've posted on here. Right? Right.

Not that either would happen anytime soon, but I think a 3rd location (i.e. Texas) would be a better option than a 5th gate in FL.. but this has been discussed ad nauseum on this and other boards..

 

[Trackmaster]

You are far overestimating the crossover there...Disneyland is gonna be a problem...WDW is screwed. At least until late 2020 when other stuff comes on line.

You don’t build the same size for double the crowds. We’ll know by 9/3 or so...

Yeah, I think that taking it off FP+ was a tactical error for WDW -- although its funny that its reservation only for DL. I get what they were trying to do: they wanted to make it realistically possible for people who can't snag a FP+ to get on it without having to wait 6-7 hours. They wanted to make sure that if you came all the way there just for GE that you wouldn't be blocked out of the FP+ before you could even reserve.

But I think that this could have been taken care of with the tiers. Pull TSM off of tier 1, but keep Slinky on tier 1. So if you're locked out of GE, you'll probably get a Slinky FP+ that you're not used to getting. And with people's attention being pulled to both SW rides, people will have a lot at one least if they book early. Maybe even make a policy where you're guaranteed at least one FP+ on both Star Wars attractions if you stay on site for at least a week. And if you're a Florida AP, you're guaranteed one on each, but no more until its been open for six months.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yeah, I think that taking it off FP+ was a tactical error for WDW -- although its funny that its reservation only for DL. I get what they were trying to do: they wanted to make it realistically possible for people who can't snag a FP+ to get on it without having to wait 6-7 hours. They wanted to make sure that if you came all the way there just for GE that you wouldn't be blocked out of the FP+ before you could even reserve.

But I think that this could have been taken care of with the tiers. Pull TSM off of tier 1, but keep Slinky on tier 1. So if you're locked out of GE, you'll probably get a Slinky FP+ that you're not used to getting. And with people's attention being pulled to both SW rides, people will have a lot at one least if they book early. Maybe even make a policy where you're guaranteed at least one FP+ on both Star Wars attractions if you stay on site for at least a week. And if you're a Florida AP, you're guaranteed one on each, but no more until its been open for six months.

The only way to “fix this” would have been to open about 10 new attractions across property at the same time. Blame bob....he did nothing but price tinker for years after he took over. The advantage over the crowd was lost.

And...Star Wars should be at least 50% bigger in Florida...probably double, if we’re honest

 

[SirWillow]

Yeah, I think that taking it off FP+ was a tactical error for WDW

And I would actually disagree with you on that. Removing it from FP+ is the one way to guarantee that the standby lines will be moving at a consistent pace, and keep the waiting down to a lower amount for everyone. It's also going to reduce the chances of people having temper fits over others with fast passes- which normally might not be a problem but in the mass of humanity that will be Star Wars may very well be. it at least removes that chance.

But then I'm also one of those of the opinion that wishes FP+ would be removed completely from the parks, and find the events and times where it's not being used much much more enjoyable with shorter waits.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

And I would actually disagree with you on that. Removing it from FP+ is the one way to guarantee that the standby lines will be moving at a consistent pace, and keep the waiting down to a lower amount for everyone. It's also going to reduce the chances of people having temper fits over others with fast passes- which normally might not be a problem but in the mass of humanity that will be Star Wars may very well be. it at least removes that chance.

But then I'm also one of those of the opinion that wishes FP+ would be removed completely from the parks, and find the events and times where it's not being used much much more enjoyable with shorter waits.

The standby lines don’t move at the pace you think they will. They didn’t prior to fast pass and there was a lot less attendance then.

I can remember waiting 2 hours for pirates of the Caribbean pre fastpass...one of the highest capacity rides in the park. That was 1992...check the attendance figures then as compared to now.

 

[danheaton]

I visited in 2005 and 2008 prior to FastPass Plus, and there were walk-on waits for Pirates, Spaceship Earth, Haunted Mansion, and many others. Now attendance has gone up since that point, but not on the level to make the waits so long. Having FastPass on nearly every attraction is a big problem. With Galaxy's Edge, FastPass would make it a lot worse. There still are going to be huge waits, but it simplifies the approach where the lines move as they should. If all FastPass was gone, there would be long lines at the headliners. But it would help the park on the whole and eliminate waits at a lot of the second-tier attractions.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I visited in 2005 and 2008 prior to FastPass Plus, and there were walk-on waits for Pirates, Spaceship Earth, Haunted Mansion, and many others. Now attendance has gone up since that point, but not on the level to make the waits so long. Having FastPass on nearly every attraction is a big problem. With Galaxy's Edge, FastPass would make it a lot worse. There still are going to be huge waits, but it simplifies the approach where the lines move as they should. If all FastPass was gone, there would be long lines at the headliners. But it would help the park on the whole and eliminate waits at a lot of the second-tier attractions.

But that’s only part of the reason for fast passes...

Part of it is to drive sales through demand and to streamline employees

 

[danheaton]

But that’s only part of the reason for fast passes...

Part of it is to drive sales through demand and to streamline employees

Right. With FastPass Plus (and now with seasonal ticketing), Disney is able to better plan for operations and not over staff on slower days. It also offers another big incentive for guests to stay at on-site resorts. I was thinking more of what the poor results are, not the reasons. There are definitely some benefits too. It's just not great for lines to flow well.