Star Wars Land Demand vs Capacity

[GiveMeLibertyTreeTavern]

When SW:GE was announced as their "largest expansion ever" at 14 acres, my first thought was "that's neither impressive nor big enough, particularly given that Pandora is 12 acres." Avatar is like 1/10th the size of a franchise domestically as Star Wars. The amount of attractions, budget and size of lands should reflect that. The land should be double the size. That was their first mistake.

The next mistake was building two of them. Had they put the entire investment into Florida, they could have paid for the larger sized land by not having to make that investment in California. The very last thing the world's 2nd busiest theme park needed was a land dedicated to the this massive franchise. They really don't need SW:GE crowds in Disneyland. DHS has that awkward layout, but had it been built much larger would have had much more potential to absorb the crowds.

With a larger land in DHS they could have added 1-2 more attractions and a large crowd-eating theater for some type of show in addition to just having more physical land to space people out. Maybe I'm entirely off-base and this land will open and a few months go by and the consensus will be "this really feels appropriately sized for the crowds." Color me skeptical.

 

[larryz]

When SW:GE was announced as their "largest expansion ever" at 14 acres, my first thought was "that's neither impressive nor big enough, particularly given that Pandora is 12 acres." Avatar is like 1/10th the size of a franchise domestically as Star Wars. The amount of attractions, budget and size of lands should reflect that. The land should be double the size. That was their first mistake.

The next mistake was building two of them. Had they put the entire investment into Florida, they could have paid for the larger sized land by not having to make that investment in California. The very last thing the world's 2nd busiest theme park needed was a land dedicated to the this massive franchise. They really don't need SW:GE crowds in Disneyland. DHS has that awkward layout, but had it been built much larger would have had much more potential to absorb the crowds.

With a larger land in DHS they could have added 1-2 more attractions and a large crowd-eating theater for some type of show in addition to just having more physical land to space people out. Maybe I'm entirely off-base and this land will open and a few months go by and the consensus will be "this really feels appropriately sized for the crowds." Color me skeptical.

It's almost like they've put a failed TV weatherman and a purveyor of generic Chinese merchandise in charge of running a theme park or something...

 

[Bob Harlem]

I suspect the lines will be extremely large at guest services also. (Particularly if the capacity problems are extreme, or people just aren't able to get in) If you have patience they'll probably be handing out comp stuff like candy.

 

[Trackmaster]

When SW:GE was announced as their "largest expansion ever" at 14 acres, my first thought was "that's neither impressive nor big enough, particularly given that Pandora is 12 acres." Avatar is like 1/10th the size of a franchise domestically as Star Wars. The amount of attractions, budget and size of lands should reflect that. The land should be double the size. That was their first mistake.

The next mistake was building two of them. Had they put the entire investment into Florida, they could have paid for the larger sized land by not having to make that investment in California. The very last thing the world's 2nd busiest theme park needed was a land dedicated to the this massive franchise. They really don't need SW:GE crowds in Disneyland. DHS has that awkward layout, but had it been built much larger would have had much more potential to absorb the crowds.

With a larger land in DHS they could have added 1-2 more attractions and a large crowd-eating theater for some type of show in addition to just having more physical land to space people out. Maybe I'm entirely off-base and this land will open and a few months go by and the consensus will be "this really feels appropriately sized for the crowds." Color me skeptical.

I don't know, I applaud them for keeping it fresh and adding new stuff in. They have unlimited land at WDW, so space will never be an issue. I just think that they should have put the Galaxy Edge attractions on FP+. I know that they wanted to give everyone a chance to get on, but I think that adding some quality FP+ would have at least taken the pressure off ToT, RRC, and Slinky. This will make those three pretty much impossible to get now, and they had a chance of putting Slinky on tier 1 with Star Wars, and letting some non-hotel guests and non-pounders get a a crack at it for once. The point of FP+ is that laps are limited and priority is given in the virtual world, and people don't have to stand in line for four hours and let their minds turn to mush.

 

[Kingtut]

I suspect the lines will be extremely large at guest services also. (Particularly if the capacity problems are extreme, or people just aren't able to get in) If you have patience they'll probably be handing out comp stuff like candy.

I agree that the lines for Guest Services will be very long. My suggestion is that Disney provide a new thing - A FP for Guest Services - why should you have to waste your limited time in GE ( or any park) waiting to complain when you can just schedule your complaint time from the app? Additionally this would let Disney determine the demand for GS and staff accordingly. Why pay for too many cast members when you can keep the line at an optimal length throughout the day.

 

[VaderTron]

I do not think you are overestimating the crowds/demand/endurance we will see at GE. I envision queues to get INTO GE snaking through DHS. Its gonna be a mess. I am looking forward to the YouTube reports of the first week and Disneyland and WDW

When the board room uses cattle stockyards as the guideline for how much room is needed bad things happen. You can picture one of the executives showing elaborately detailed analytics of how the reduction of space in Star Wars land forces more guests into under-used spaces such as merchandise stores and restaurants thus increasing profits per head of cattle "guest".

As much as I was excited when I first heard of the possibility of a Star Wars land, in reality this is ruining one of my favorite vacation spots. My pass runs out in July. For the first time in a while we will not be renewing. I agree with many others that the crowds are going to be insane, and Iger & Crew don't give a flying heap of crap that there will not be enough space, rides, or entertainment to make the experience "magical". In fact they are counting on people saying, "Well, the line for THE ONLY RIDE in this land is 5 hours (because they were so greedy they couldn't wait to open the land until both rides were ready) . I don't want to spend all my time in line for just one ride. Why don't we get something to eat and see what they have in the stores." Genius...get them to spend even MORE money in a land they could only access by paying an insane amount for an on-site hotel room. Then as the day moves on and even more people jam into Star Wars land they will be forced back in to the rest of the park to crush the the rest of the park guests.

As far as further expansion, that will not come until many more hotels have been opened. Disney only entices more people to come see something new when there is zero chance the increased capacity will not be overwhelmed by increased demand (and space to house that demand on site).

 

[tomast]

Avatar is like 1/10th the size of a franchise domestically as Star Wars.

Internationaly speaking, nobody knows Avatar, Star Wars is known by a far more amount of people. Older Fans who see the first movies in the cinema and had lived the original movement, and the Sons of the second trilogy who know star wars as part of the second trilogy. If those are not a huge crowd, there are the "new" fans, who know star wars through Disney trilogy, who may have stronger bound with both Disney and Star Wars as having seen the SW toys, cartoons and animation series through Mickeys hand.

Star Wars can have a whole park and it might sell more than Epcot and DHS.

 

[larryz]

The good news is we will get a headsup on how insane it will be based on a couple months of Anaheim.

The figures will be skewed by the reservation system out there.

 

[SirWillow]

Star Wars can have a whole park and it might sell more than Epcot and DHS.

There's a lot of truth in that statement. It could have easily been the 5th gate in Florida, and a hugely successful one at that.

 

[Trackmaster]

It will be. There’s no point in building a 5th gate with only two rides.

What they are doing is putting it in DHS but will eventually break it off from DHS to form the 5th gate once they have 6-7 rides.

HS is already the most incomplete park of the four. It needs all the help it can get. If anything, MK would be the best candidate to break into two parks. One that's dedicated for the little kids, and the other that focuses on the adult aspects of the park.

 

[DeletedAccount55555]

Internationaly speaking, nobody knows Avatar, Star Wars is known by a far more amount of people.

Hard to argue that Star Wars is more well-known and has a much, more more impassioned fanbase. But "nobody knows Avatar" internationally? Come on, it grossed more than $2 billion outside the U.S.

 

[HauntedPirate]

Hard to argue that Star Wars is more well-known and has a much, more more impassioned fanbase. But "nobody knows Avatar" internationally? Come on, it grossed more than $2 billion outside the U.S.

That it did. But, for whatever reason, it never really became a cultural phenomenon like other huge movies did. I know Cameron is making 42 sequels, but has there really been some huge, pent-up demand for them? I'm genuinely curious, as it seemed Avatar disappeared from most people's radars after the movie left theaters.

 

[DeletedAccount55555]

That it did. But, for whatever reason, it never really became a cultural phenomenon like other huge movies did. I know Cameron is making 42 sequels, but has there really been some huge, pent-up demand for them? I'm genuinely curious, as it seemed Avatar disappeared from most people's radars after the movie left theaters.

I agree with you there. For a film that made so, so much money, it didn't inspire a large fandom and doesn't seem to be that fondly remembered. Who knows how much it benefited from its visuals at a time when 3-D theatrical films were kind of a novelty.

My issue is when that lack of reverence gets exaggerated into "nobody knows Avatar!"

 

[GiveMeLibertyTreeTavern]

Internationaly speaking, nobody knows Avatar, Star Wars is known by a far more amount of people.

I was probably overestimating the size of the franchise at 1/10 the size of Star Wars. It might be something like 1/20th. Star Wars merchandise and video games probably top all other franchises by a lot. I haven't crunched the numbers, but I was also building in an assumption of some sort of following around all of Cameron's sequels, perhaps boosting the Avatar franchise up quite a bit.

With that said, I had another thought about SW:GE. When Millenium Falcon: Smuggler's Run is the only ride and it breaks down then that's going to be a REAL mess. That possibility alone is enough to keep me far away from DHS this year. At least in California there are many other attractions and an entire other park you can just walk over to. DHS has like 4 rides people care about.

 

[larryz]

My issue is when that lack of reverence gets exaggerated into "nobody knows Avatar!"

Perhaps it would be better stated, "nobody cares about Avatar!" In this frame, I mean nobody gets as emotionally invested in Avatar (save James Cameron and Joe Rohde) as they do in Star Wars.

 

[tomast]

Hard to argue that Star Wars is more well-known and has a much, more more impassioned fanbase. But "nobody knows Avatar" internationally? Come on, it grossed more than $2 billion outside the U.S.

it was 10 years ago! and nobody ever look back at it. It was used to sell TVs because it was one of the first hd movies that come out along with the LCD TV masification, ask someone in the street the name of the main character, or the lady, o the bad guy on the robot. Name the the extraterrestrial race or show them pictures of spaceships and make them choose wich ones belong to avatar And then ask that same people who darth vader, yoda, r2d2, chewaka, are... if they can recognise the death star or a tie fighter or a x-wing or the milenium falcon...

That it did. But, for whatever reason, it never really became a cultural phenomenon like other huge movies did. I know Cameron is making 42 sequels, but has there really been some huge, pent-up demand for them? I'm genuinely curious, as it seemed Avatar disappeared from most people's radars after the movie left theaters.

Thats absolutly true, and I know that thanks to pandora-land we have a little more of knowlage of the saga in the pop culture... but if it was not for that there would be 0. Same happend with "Tron" with all the avaliables ips idk why they choose that. I bet nobody care about it (and i am not speaking aboaut the coaster that looks pretty cool)

I know maybe now that disney bought fox and Avatar ip it might burn lots of money to make it a thing but right now it is not.

 

[joshjoned]

When SW:GE was announced as their "largest expansion ever" at 14 acres, my first thought was "that's neither impressive nor big enough, particularly given that Pandora is 12 acres." Avatar is like 1/10th the size of a franchise domestically as Star Wars. The amount of attractions, budget and size of lands should reflect that. The land should be double the size. That was their first mistake.

The next mistake was building two of them. Had they put the entire investment into Florida, they could have paid for the larger sized land by not having to make that investment in California. The very last thing the world's 2nd busiest theme park needed was a land dedicated to the this massive franchise. They really don't need SW:GE crowds in Disneyland. DHS has that awkward layout, but had it been built much larger would have had much more potential to absorb the crowds.

With a larger land in DHS they could have added 1-2 more attractions and a large crowd-eating theater for some type of show in addition to just having more physical land to space people out. Maybe I'm entirely off-base and this land will open and a few months go by and the consensus will be "this really feels appropriately sized for the crowds." Color me skeptical.

Maybe Disney did that because they want their original park to be it's leader in attendance, and not it's younger brother in Florida?

Internationaly speaking, nobody knows Avatar, Star Wars is known by a far more amount of people. Older Fans who see the first movies in the cinema and had lived the original movement, and the Sons of the second trilogy who know star wars as part of the second trilogy. If those are not a huge crowd, there are the "new" fans, who know star wars through Disney trilogy, who may have stronger bound with both Disney and Star Wars as having seen the SW toys, cartoons and animation series through Mickeys hand.

Star Wars can have a whole park and it might sell more than Epcot and DHS.

A whole park dedicated to Star Wars could actually surpass Magic Kingdom. But I'm glad they didn't make a whole park dedicated to Star Wars, yet...

 

[tomast]

Maybe Disney did that because they want their original park to be it's leader in attendance, and not it's younger brother in Florida?


A whole park dedicated to Star Wars could actually surpass Magic Kingdom. But I'm glad they didn't make a whole park dedicated to Star Wars, yet...

IDK I dont feel like Disney can open a new gate on Florida, Its kind of strange but i cant see that massive inversion. I know it has been done, I can feel that they can build 3 parks overseas but I found it really hard to think of a brand new park in the US. I know that universal might open a new gate in the near future but i cant imagine Disney. I think maybe because Disney has some sort of a "higher cost" on building as its expected to give a better result. Maybe because Disney is the lider on Theme Parks, and maybe its really risky to invest on a new park when they might need the money on the current park or have the money to contrarest any universal move but for that then universal has to move first.

Maybe it's a bad legacy of previous administrations (Eisner) with Eurodisney, Disney california adventure and "westcot. I know those are a succes right now, but I am not if nowadays administrations and shareholders will accept that kind of risk.

Just a feeling, nothing else...

 

[Trackmaster]

Perhaps it would be better stated, "nobody cares about Avatar!" In this frame, I mean nobody gets as emotionally invested in Avatar (save James Cameron and Joe Rohde) as they do in Star Wars.

That's probably a good point. Avatar was a major spectacle and global sensation that everybody wanted to experience and enjoy. It wasn't something that people devoted themselves to like Star Wars, Harry Potter, or the MCU. I doubt that many people really watch Avatar over and over again on DVD.

 

[larryz]

That's probably a good point. Avatar was a major spectacle and global sensation that everybody wanted to experience and enjoy. It wasn't something that people devoted themselves to like Star Wars, Harry Potter, or the MCU. I doubt that many people really watch Avatar over and over again on DVD.

I probably like your reply.