Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker Reactions: SPOILERS

[Tony Perkis]

So your position, just clarifying here, is that Rose Tico is a more popular character than Jar Jar because:

“Rose is too idealistic in her virtues and sees things in black and white; valuable for when Finn needs to learn about his virtues, but naive when judging society in general (learning how merchants sold to both the FO and the Resistance).”

Sure, why not.

I understand if it’s over your head.

 

[RobWDW1971]

I understand if it’s over your head.

Translation: “I’m caught in a lie that I said I had made a powerful argument about the popularity of the Rose Tico character being more than that of Jar Jar when I fact I never did, but now am trying the “high road” tactic to distract”.

 

[Tony Perkis]

Translation: “I’m caught in a lie that I said I had made a powerful argument about the popularity of the Rose Tico character being more than that of Jar Jar when I fact I never did, but now am trying the “high road” tactic to distract”.

I would appreciate if you don’t put words in my mouth. I was never once caught in a lie; I said I made my opinion of Rose Tico clear. You’re the one who wanted a direct comparison between Jar Jar and Rose, which is not something a person of sound mind would request.

 

[RobWDW1971]

I would appreciate if you don’t put words in my mouth. I was never once caught in a lie; I said I made my opinion of Rose Tico clear. You’re the one who wanted a direct comparison between Jar Jar and Rose, which is no something a person of sound mind would request.

I said Jar Jar > Rose Tico. You then pontificated that that was indeed not the case. I asked you to explain and prove and you then started your callbacks to other posts that in no way back up your position that you now once again only defend with insults.

Again, from your lack of stated reasons and evidence, we are left with Jar Jar is a more popular character than Rose Tico. If you have evidence to the contrary, please provide.

(And BTW, Jar Jar isn’t a popular character nor do I care about him, but he’s still more popular than Rose Tico, who is absolutely horrible and the embarrassing joke of the current saga)

 

[Sharon&Susan]

All I know is that Jar Jar is the key to all of this.

 

[Tony Perkis]

All I know is that Jar Jar is the key to all of this.

It’s like poetry.

 

[RobWDW1971]

It’s like poetry.

Translation: “I still can’t defend my position so now I’m trying to be clever instead of admit it”.

 

[Tony Perkis]

Translation: “I still can’t defend my position so now I’m trying to be clever instead of admit it”.

You don’t even know the joke I’m referring to.

 

[erasure fan1]

I wonder if the people who put characters like Ackbar on a pedestal along with Boba Fett and Darth Maul, are the same ones who didn't like the minor character of Captain Phasma.

I'd say most liked phasma. She had a lot of similarities to fett and maul. The only reason she gets dumped on is because most feel they were sold a false bill of goods. If they wouldnt have made it seem like she was a significant part of the force awakens. Or then she was going to shine in ep8 with that spot in the trailer, people wouldn't have issues. I still think most people still like phasma as a cool secondary character. They're just disappointed because of her unjustified hype.

Why do people keep pointing out Disney popularity to justify nonsense? It’s irrelevant who a tiny person wants a picture with when judging film.

Well to be fair, this part of the argument had nothing to do with judging film. It was about the popularity of certain characters. So it's not an irrelevant point. You can point to a lot of things that might seem irrelevant when judging popularity of characters. Here is another one you probably would classify as irrelevant. After last jedi, not one kid in my sons school dressed as rose. But guess what. I did see Jar jar show up in different years nearly 20yrs after the movie released.

 

[Mike S]

Different question entirely - of course having a character with an entire 10 hour show focused on him is going to be a more fully fleshed out character. But saying that any appreciation for the character of Boba Fett is based on nostalgia only is ridiculous and insulting to his place in the franchise.

Except I didn’t say “any appreciation.“ I said “extremely high regard.”

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

I'd say most liked phasma. She had a lot of similarities to fett and maul. The only reason she gets dumped on is because most feel they were sold a false bill of goods. If they wouldnt have made it seem like she was a significant part of the force awakens. Or then she was going to shine in ep8 with that spot in the trailer, people wouldn't have issues. I still think most people still like phasma as a cool secondary character. They're just disappointed because of her unjustified hype.

Weren't they selling Boba Fett toys before he ever appeared on screen? "Over-hyping" a cool looking character who turns out to be a minor player is nothing new.

Also, if people build a level of anticipation based on a trailer, that's partially on them. Trailers are going to sell a movie in the best possible light and will often not represent the actual product accurately. Similar to the first trailers - "Who are you? Rey: I'm no one" - which immediately set off a firestorm of speculation and theories on who Rey would be. So many expectations and speculation based on a commercial, and then people are upset when the final product doesn't match what they expected, based on their own wild flights of fancy?

Phasma is featured in the trailers because it's a cool visual. Anyone who assumes that means her character is important, doesn't understand how movie trailers work.

I wish that weren't the case, but it generally is. On the flipside, I really appreciate that the Mandalorian kept Baby Yoda under wraps. Instead of flooding us with previews and 5000 toys before the series released, they allowed people to discover and embrace the character the right way. The 5000 toys can come later. It allows us to like the character, whereas had they done it differently, we might have felt like the show was just a toy commercial, and been less receptive to it.

 

[LSLS]

Weren't they selling Boba Fett toys before he ever appeared on screen? "Over-hyping" a cool looking character who turns out to be a minor player is nothing new.

Also, if people build a level of anticipation based on a trailer, that's partially on them. Trailers are going to sell a movie in the best possible light and will often not represent the actual product accurately. Similar to the first trailers - "Who are you? Rey: I'm no one" - which immediately set off a firestorm of speculation and theories on who Rey would be. So many expectations and speculation based on a commercial, and then people are upset when the final product doesn't match what they expected, based on their own wild flights of fancy?

Phasma is featured in the trailers because it's a cool visual. Anyone who assumes that means her character is important, doesn't understand how movie trailers work.

I wish that weren't the case, but it generally is. On the flipside, I really appreciate that the Mandalorian kept Baby Yoda under wraps. Instead of flooding us with previews and 5000 toys before the series released, they allowed people to discover and embrace the character the right way. The 5000 toys can come later. It allows us to like the character, whereas had they done it differently, we might have felt like the show was just a toy commercial, and been less receptive to it.

Wait, what is the point of a trailer if it's not to build anticipation? Not to take your discussion off course (and bring it back to everyone's favorite subject), but I will forever say that The Last Jedi trailer is one of the largest reasons people hated so much of that movie. Go rewatch that trailer and look at the teases they put in there, and then watch how they played them out. It was like the entire point of the trailer was to say "Gotcha" to anyone who got excited by them.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Wait, what is the point of a trailer if it's not to build anticipation? Not to take your discussion off course (and bring it back to everyone's favorite subject), but I will forever say that The Last Jedi trailer is one of the largest reasons people hated so much of that movie. Go rewatch that trailer and look at the teases they put in there, and then watch how they played them out. It was like the entire point of the trailer was to say "Gotcha" to anyone who got excited by them.

The point of a trailer is to put butts in seats. Building anticipation can mean putting the best possible stuff in the trailer. A great many movies aren't as good as the trailer might lead one to believe. The Phantom Menace is one Star Wars example.

If someone thinks Captain Phasma is going to sell the movie, she goes in the trailer. The people behind the marketing don't care about expectations because they took a character with 60 seconds of screen time and put 50 of those seconds in the trailer. If I watch a trailer and can't wait to go see "The Adventures of Captain Phasma", only to be let down by that element, it doesn't matter because they have my money.

I'm not a fan of misleading trailers, or ones that give everything away (yet a lot of people prefer that), but I also know not to read too much into the trailers. The Last Jedi trailer had a few moments like that, but I didn't care too much. Same with hinting that Threepio would die in the RoS trailer.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

In no way, shape, or form is Jar Jar Binks a superior character to Captain Phasma.

Phasma was a hype-driven character pushed by Abrams in interviews, but neither film she was in had any interest in developing her. And that’s fine, but Abrams is the reason anyone even wanted her to be a character.

I’ll take a non-character over a character aimed to entertain dimwitted 3 year olds.

Jar Jar > Captain Phasma > Rose Tico

So you’re both saying that it was a throwaway character?

Yeah...so we all are saying it’s a throwaway character?

That’s the PROBLEM! they all are toss away because none are fleshed out. We have no believable characters (within the context of their universe)...due to no backstories. Not even the “mains”. Ren is the slight exception.

People who defer to the perceived views of a monolithic corporate entity to validate or invalidate opinions should be largely ignored.

It is a monolithic corporate entity and majority rules. That will dictate what we get as fans consumers.

So no more last jedis. Period.

How can we not make that disadvantageous? Become the majority. Drive where it goes with our money and voices.

Now I’ve told you how the game ends. Or we go along with crap and get more crap.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Wait, what is the point of a trailer if it's not to build anticipation? Not to take your discussion off course (and bring it back to everyone's favorite subject), but I will forever say that The Last Jedi trailer is one of the largest reasons people hated so much of that movie. Go rewatch that trailer and look at the teases they put in there, and then watch how they played them out. It was like the entire point of the trailer was to say "Gotcha" to anyone who got excited by them.

That’s EXACTLY what they tried to do...

KK and her smug little man. They are now reaping what they sowed...straight out of a Steinbeck novel.

 

[erasure fan1]

Weren't they selling Boba Fett toys before he ever appeared on screen? "Over-hyping" a cool looking character who turns out to be a minor player is nothing new.

Sort of. They put boba fett in the holiday special and then they had a mail away for a figure. The difference with phasma was she was front and center in all the marketing. Heck, they even made a car designed after the character. Fett and Jeremy Bulock were never part of the hype outside of a mention here or there. Phasma and Gwendoline were an integral part of the marketing.

Also, if people build a level of anticipation based on a trailer, that's partially on them. Trailers are going to sell a movie in the best possible light and will often not represent the actual product accurately. Similar to the first trailers - "Who are you? Rey: I'm no one" - which immediately set off a firestorm of speculation and theories on who Rey would be.

I agree for the most part but I can see why people got upset. It wasn't just the trailer, it was all the talking up that was done. JJ was the one who kept hinting about Reys lineage and thats why they didn't reveal her last name. Look, Therm Scissorpunch got a Dennys trading card in the marketing for Solo. He was a funny background character that lots of people were talking about. Was anyone upset he wasn't a big part of the movie? Of course not. They didn't parade him around and make a big deal about him. They gave him a trading card at Dennys and it was pretty funny.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Sort of. They put boba fett in the holiday special and then they had a mail away for a figure. The difference with phasma was she was front and center in all the marketing. Heck, they even made a car designed after the character. Fett and Jeremy Bulock were never part of the hype outside of a mention here or there. Phasma and Gwendoline were an integral part of the marketing.

I agree for the most part but I can see why people got upset. It wasn't just the trailer, it was all the talking up that was done. JJ was the one who kept hinting about Reys lineage and thats why they didn't reveal her last name. Look, Therm Scissorpunch got a Dennys trading card in the marketing for Solo. He was a funny background character that lots of people were talking about. Was anyone upset he wasn't a big part of the movie? Of course not. They didn't parade him around and make a big deal about him. They gave him a trading card at Dennys and it was pretty funny.

Rey was handled oddly, that's why I criticized the way they went back on forth of whether she is someone or no one, only settling on a final answer halfway through the third movie, and then not having the answer really matter. Still, I don't have a particular issue with her name being withheld, even if she was a "no one" in the end. It's still valid to have that mystery lead to that answer.

I'll say for Phasma, as a minor character she was still memorable and had an impact in the film. It's not a bad thing that even a minor character with minimal screen time has impact, regardless of whether or not one considers her to have been over-hyped in the marketing.

 

[RobWDW1971]

 

[Mike S]

Weren't they selling Boba Fett toys before he ever appeared on screen? "Over-hyping" a cool looking character who turns out to be a minor player is nothing new.

At least for Boba he actually did things in his first real appearance in ESB. He outsmarted and captured Han Solo. Phasma just surrenders right when the heroes meet her.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

At least for Boba he actually did things in his first real appearance in ESB. He outsmarted and captured Han Solo. Phasma just surrenders right when the heroes meet her.

He did indeed. He also met an unceremonious end in Jedi. Phasma surrenders because three other people have guns trained on her.

They're both minor characters with pros and cons, and Fett in particular is beloved by the fandom for his cool factor. Is there much point in nit picking over which character was handled better, other than to cite them as a reason to justify criticism of certain films?

Say what you want about either character, how I feel about Empire, Jedi, Awakens, or Last Jedi has little to do with either of them.