Star Wars Ep. 9 Thread

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
I'm going...bought 20 tickets with my friends. We have done it since 1977 when we were in kindergarten and our parents took us. So I had to complete the journey.
We have enjoyed Recently Force Awakens, Rouge One, Solo as a group. Last Jedi was a nightmare, no one in the group liked it.
But...I'm excited to go with my buddies and our children. Eat pizza before the show and hang out after to talked about it.
Always a good time.
I waited 6 hours in the rain for phantom menace tickets...literally.

Nope...not this time. Enough.

Get some new creative heads (all but certain now) in the presidio and get your heads out of your butts in Burbank...
And I’ll be back. Like you...I don’t want to “not like it”

Never was the goal
 

CinematicFusion

Well-Known Member
Lucas was too concerned with the money...that’s why the prequels were wrecked as much as his bad directing. Sometimes the computer doesn’t work. No depth when it’s needed.

He reached his director ceiling long ago. And it’s shocking how little credit is given to Gary kurtz and kershner for really making the Star Wars “feel”...George is as much of a figurehead as any.

But I agree he can do a story...no doubt. But wasn’t the person to put it on the screen.

I’ll give him a pass on Indy 4 😉

My brother and I talk about Indy 4 a lot. We feel the story was there but Speilberg and David Koepp (screen play)dropped the ball.
How in the world do you make the Greaser vs. Socials at the start of the film in the bar so bad? The story elements were in place.
 
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Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
My brother and I talk about Indy 4 a lot. We feel the story was there but Speilberg and David Koepp (screen play)dropped the ball.
How in the world to you make the Greaser vs. Socials at the start of the film in the bar so bad? The story elements were in place.
I actually agree...

The plot wasn’t all that terrible...the direction was bad and some casting didn’t work.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
The plot leaks were confirmed back when first real trailer released in August. Each subsequent trailer, clip, commercial etc has only further confirmed their authenticity.

So far "impressions" seem to be a mixture of mostly good to amazing, with a few outliers saying it's mixed. Not many overtly negative tweets yet, which should come as no surprise. Last Jedi also received overwhelmingly positive impressions from social media. But once the general public started seeing it, its reception plummeted. Don't trust early previews from social media personalities. This is par for the course these days. The Aladdin, Dumbo and Lion King live action remakes also got positive praise in pre-release impressions on social media. Same situation with the Ghostbusters reboot. The most charitable and naive explanation would be that there's a huge disconnect between these social media people and the general public over what they think makes a good movie. The less charitable but much more likely explanation is that there's some paid propaganda going on here.

There are a small handful of details in the leaks I do think were good ideas, but a lot of the movie sounds like a big mess. The only bit of hope is that there are parts of the leaks that (while stupid and bad) sound like they at least have the potential to be more "entertaining" to watch than Last Jedi (Last Jedi on top of being a bad movie was also an utter bore, if I sit through a bad and stupid movie, it should at least be entertainingly bad and stupid). But I think that when the dust settles, Rise of Skywalker will settle into the mixed but mostly "meh" category. Has the potential to be better than Last Jedi at least, but from my perspective that definitely isn't really saying much.
This is why I can enjoy Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones now ;)
Guys, look. I like and respect you both, and I don't doubt you're as big Star Wars fans as I am. I agree with some of the criticisms you have of the ST, even though I've generally enjoyed it (up until this point).

I just can't get on board with the "Rey is a Mary Sue", narrative and I'm disappointed to hear you parroting those talking points. Her arc in the ST mirrors that of Luke's in the OT, yet everyone totally accepts (nay, celebrates) how OP Luke was with his own minimal, incomplete training.

The simple truth is every story, especially archetypal stories like SW, feature protagonists that are better than everyone else and have plot armor to make sure they ultimately triumph at the end. Rey is no different, except that she's a woman...

All of that being said, several people who were at the premier last night have wholly confirmed the leaks I read months ago, and let me tell you, TLJ has nothing on the hate TRoS is going to get.

And I'll be honest, I'm terribly sad. This is going to be a wholly unsatisfying end to not just the larger saga as a whole, but to the ST itself. It's clear to me they really had no overarching plan for how all this was going to play out. After this mess, I'm done with JJ's mystery box.
Luke was not as OP as Rey. Watch ANH and ESB again, then watch TFA and TLJ, then compare both of their accomplishments. Luke didn’t reach what Rey could do in TFA until RotJ.
I like Daisy Ridley.. I like Rey a lot as a person and character and am glad she is the main character in the sequel trilogy. She most definitely is a Mary Sue much more than anyone else was in the other movies. They didn't need to do that. Please stop with the she's a woman bit so that's why people don't like her.. it's not the truth. Its poor execution on character development that's all. A lot of movies do it now a days so it should be expected.
I was rooting for her in TFA even though the early trailers made me think Finn would be the hero. I still think a Stormtrooper turned Jedi would’ve been an amazing idea.

Oh my god. That’s just, wow. I can barely put it into words.
I wish I was there with you...

But I can’t reward them for this. Not a dime. It’s the same argument I make with parks all the time. Don’t reward a pig with more food.
Well I want to see it in theaters but I also don’t like going to movies alone so opening night was my only choice.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Guys, look. I like and respect you both, and I don't doubt you're as big Star Wars fans as I am. I agree with some of the criticisms you have of the ST, even though I've generally enjoyed it (up until this point).

I just can't get on board with the "Rey is a Mary Sue", narrative and I'm disappointed to hear you parroting those talking points. Her arc in the ST mirrors that of Luke's in the OT, yet everyone totally accepts (nay, celebrates) how OP Luke was with his own minimal, incomplete training.

The simple truth is every story, especially archetypal stories like SW, feature protagonists that are better than everyone else and have plot armor to make sure they ultimately triumph at the end. Rey is no different, except that she's a woman...

All of that being said, several people who were at the premier last night have wholly confirmed the leaks I read months ago, and let me tell you, TLJ has nothing on the hate TRoS is going to get.

And I'll be honest, I'm terribly sad. This is going to be a wholly unsatisfying end to not just the larger saga as a whole, but to the ST itself. It's clear to me they really had no overarching plan for how all this was going to play out. After this mess, I'm done with JJ's mystery box.
I agree with you here, near 100% trib.

I think the anti-feminist undertones of criticism were silly and pointless and it never bothered me that she was a female.

What bothered me is how much it mirrored Skywalker and that had been done. And that is worsened by the complete change in course of what the force/Jedi thing was and should have been.

She’s just not a great character. And now that character is done.


The only SJW complaint I admit to was Hodo in 8...that was an obvious attempt to check boxes and they did it at the expense of a beloved character. Not cool at all...outright stupid, in fact
 

tirian

Well-Known Member
I agree with you here, near 100% trib.

I think the anti-feminist undertones of criticism were silly and pointless and it never bothered me that she was a female.

What bothered me is how much it mirrored Skywalker and that had been done. And that is worsened by the complete change in course of what the force/Jedi thing was and should have been.

She’s just not a great character. And now that character is done.


The only SJW complaint I admit to was Hodo in 8...that was an obvious attempt to check boxes and they did it at the expense of a beloved character. Not cool at all...outright stupid, in fact

I question the number of trolls versus their loudness. I remember seeing an article that counted the number of tweets attacking Rian Johnson for personal/political reasons, and the actual number was extremely small. Lucasfilm and Disney hid behind the “troll” shield to defend poor business decisions. I think at one point, they even blamed Pinko Russian Commies.

I’ll try to find the article. Alas, I’m not much of a SW fan anyway, and only interested in all this for how it affects my stock and Iger’s obsession with claiming other people’s creative as his own.
 

tirian

Well-Known Member
Not for the sane ones.
The few mainstream ones out there...

I remember when the NY Times dared to give Toy Story 3 a mixed review, and people lost their minds. Now in retrospect, the critic’s complaints were valid. He called out Pixar for melodramatic storylines that force emotions instead of letting one poignant moment speak for itself.

The more excellent movies you watch, and the more you’re willing to think critically about them as an art form, the more you’re willing to recognize what’s great and what isn’t. You take it all MUCH less personally.
 

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
Guys, look. I like and respect you both, and I don't doubt you're as big Star Wars fans as I am. I agree with some of the criticisms you have of the ST, even though I've generally enjoyed it (up until this point).

I just can't get on board with the "Rey is a Mary Sue", narrative and I'm disappointed to hear you parroting those talking points. Her arc in the ST mirrors that of Luke's in the OT, yet everyone totally accepts (nay, celebrates) how OP Luke was with his own minimal, incomplete training.

The simple truth is every story, especially archetypal stories like SW, feature protagonists that are better than everyone else and have plot armor to make sure they ultimately triumph at the end. Rey is no different, except that she's a woman...

All of that being said, several people who were at the premier last night have wholly confirmed the leaks I read months ago, and let me tell you, TLJ has nothing on the hate TRoS is going to get.

And I'll be honest, I'm terribly sad. This is going to be a wholly unsatisfying end to not just the larger saga as a whole, but to the ST itself. It's clear to me they really had no overarching plan for how all this was going to play out. After this mess, I'm done with JJ's mystery box.
Luke isn't OP at all. Rey's feats of power in just Force Awakens rival or surpass what even ROTJ Luke accomplished. Let alone her insane power by the end of Last Jedi.

In A New Hope, the only force powers Luke demonstrates are reflex or intuition based. Traits all force sensitive people exhibit. As such, Luke already had great skill at piloting and aiming due to innate jedi reflexes, but this only makes him exceptional compared to non-force sensitives. With a few lessons from Obi Wan, he is able to learn basic blaster deflection. An ability the prequel trilogy also established is one of the earliest and most basic skills preshool aged jedi trainees learned to do as well. But that's all Luke really does in A New Hope. He also would have failed and died in the Death Star trench run had Han not arrived to ambush Vader.

There's a 2 year time skip between ANH and Empire. The Wampa cave is the first time Luke demonstrates a telekinetic force power. He pulls his lightsaber from a foot or two away, barely managing it with a maximum effort. On Dagobah, Luke makes quicker progress via intense training and instruction from Yoda. His time there is generally thought to be a couple of months. Again, at first Luke struggles to lift small stones. He fails outright to lift the X Wing. At the end of his visit, he can lift several larger objects (R2D2 and some storage crates). He can also jump great heights. But Vader still makes a fool of Luke during their duel on Bespin, beating Luke without even trying.

After another year has passed, Luke has sharpened his empathic and foresight powers. He also now uses mind tricks and can force choke people. Luke does a lot better against Vader, seemingly able to push him back (and outright beat him when enraged). Though we don't know if Vader was still holding back or not. Regardless, Luke is still easily overpowered by the Emperor.

We actually witness Luke starting out, struggling to even do simple things, make progress, fail, come back from failure, progress some more, succeed some but still fail some more. And the progression is given ample time to breath (timeskips in the months to years) and we see him gettng proper instruction throughout the original trilogy.

The time gap between Force Awakens and Last Jedi is a week or less. Rey starts out completely ignorant about the force, and at the end of Last Jedi she's effortlessly lifting hundreds of massive boulders. In just Force Awakens, she overpowers and reverses Kylo's mental probe (not to mention mind tricking the stormtroopers), beats his telekinetic pull over the lightsaber, and defeats him in a duel. Also having never held a lightsaber before (a metal staff doesn't give you any experience with a weightless blade, especially against a highly skilled opponent with decades worth of experience wielding such a weapon). When she gets to Ach To, Luke doesn't even train her. She stays there 3 days. Luke spends about 30 seconds of the first day trying to show her how to meditate, but he immediately cuts it off and runs away when she uses the dark side to crack the cliff. All Luke does in the remaining time is complain about the jedi order and yell at her when she contacts Ben. Rey finally gives up and leaves the planet in frustration.
 
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tirian

Well-Known Member
Luke isn't OP at all. Rey's feats of power in just Force Awakens rival or surpass what even ROTJ Luke accomplished. Let alone her insane power by the end of Last Jedi.

In A New Hope, the only force powers Luke demonstrates are reflex or intuition based. Things that are traits of all force sensitive people. He already has great skill at piloting and aiming due to this, but this only makes him exceptional compared to non-force sensitive characters. With a few lessons from Obi Wan, he is able to learn basic blaster deflection. An ability the prequel trilogy establishes is one of the earliest and most basic skills preshool aged jedi trainees learned to do. But that's all Luke really does in A New Hope. He also would have failed and died in the Death Star Trench had Han not arrived to ambush Vader.

There's a 2 year time skip between ANH and Empire. The Wampa cave is the first time Luke demonstrates a telekinetic force power. He pulls his lightsaber from a foot or two away, barely managing it with a maximum effort on his part. On Dagobah, Luke makes quicker progress via intense training and instruction from Yoda. His time there is generally thought to be a couple of months. Again, at first Luke struggles to lift small stones. He fails outright to lift the X Wing. At the end of his visit, he can lift several larger objects (R2D2 and some storage crates). He can also jump great heights. But Vader still makes a fool of Luke during their duel on Bespin, beating Luke without even trying.

After another year has passed, Luke has sharpened his empathic and foresight powers. He also now uses mind tricks and can use his father choke ability. Luke does a lot better against Vader, seemingly able to push back (and outright beat him when enraged). Though we don't know if Vader was still holding back or not. Regardless, Luke is still easily overpowered by the Emperor.

We actually witness Luke starting out, struggling to even do simple things, make progress, fail, come back from failure, progress some more, succeed some but still fail some more. And he's given ample time and proper instruction through all of this progression.

The time gap between Force Awakens and Last Jedi is a week or less. Rey starts out completely ignorant about the force, and at the end of Last Jedi she's effortlessly lifting hundreds of massive boulders. In just Force Awakens, she overpowers and reverses Kylo's mental probe (not to mention mind tricking the stormtroopers), beats his telekinetic pull over the lightsaber, and defeats him in a duel. Also having never held a lightsaber before (a metal staff doesn't give you any experience with a weightless blade, especially against a highly skilled opponent with decades worth of experience wielding such a weapon). When she gets to Ach To, Luke doesn't even train her. She stays there 3 days. Luke spends about 30 seconds of the first day trying to show her how to meditate, but he immediately cuts it off and runs away when she uses the dark side to crack the cliff. All Luke does in the remaining time is complain about the jedi order and yell at her when she contacts Ben. Rey finally gives up and leaves the planet in frustration.
Since I’ve only seen the movie twice, I’m going to avoid wading into deep waters where I’ll sink! ;)

But your post reminds me of why I only watched it twice on opening weekend, and never again. The story was badly written. Period. Things happened because the plot needed them to happen, not because any character affected the storyline. I felt like I was watching a screenplay that checked off each element of the outline without tying them together. I had no idea about the online criticism until after I’d already decided it was a lousy movie.
 

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