Star Wars Ep. 9 Thread

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The trilogies are broken up by generations.
Episode IV didn't put elderly Obi Wan and Vader in the forefront. It wasn't called An Old Hope.
Episode VII is better with an awakening rather than The Return of the Return of the Jedi.

A greatest hits album is not in of itself a great new work. I think there's too much focus on what wasn't done. Rey resonated. Kylo is intriguing. Someday they might play second fiddle to some new generation, and hopefully people then will be open-minded enough to understand why.

Frodo? Who cares about Frodo and his stupid fellowship. The Tolkein fans just want to see Bilbo back with the Dwarves. It's kind of sad how easy a concept this was and it got so screwed up.

I’d ask if they legalized marijuana where you are...but that’s pointless. How about shrooms?


In other words: huh?!?

 

[Mike S]

The trilogies are broken up by generations.
Episode IV didn't put elderly Obi Wan and Vader in the forefront. It wasn't called An Old Hope.
Episode VII is better with an awakening rather than The Return of the Return of the Jedi.

A greatest hits album is not in of itself a great new work. I think there's too much focus on what wasn't done. Rey resonated. Kylo is intriguing. Someday they might play second fiddle to some new generation, and hopefully people then will be open-minded enough to understand why.

Frodo? Who cares about Frodo and his stupid fellowship. The Tolkein fans just want to see Bilbo back with the Dwarves. It's kind of sad how easy a concept this was and it got so screwed up.

The old characters in this trilogy got nowhere near the treatment Vader and Obi Wan got. Also unlike the new trilogy the OT introduced those two as they were for the first time. Everyone was a new character. Not so here with 40 or so years with Han, Luke, and Leia. Completely different context. People wanted one last ride into the sunset with these three and really only got it with Han. We couldn’t even get one scene with the three reunited in Episode VII.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The old characters in this trilogy got nowhere near the treatment Vader and Obi Wan got. Also unlike the new trilogy the OT introduced those two as they were for the first time. Everyone was a new character. Not so here with 40 or so years with Han, Luke, and Leia. Completely different context. People wanted one last ride into the sunset with these three and really only got it with Han. We couldn’t even get one scene with the three reunited in Episode VII.

Some fanboy named “Hamill” was whining about this...

 

[erasure fan1]

The trilogies are broken up by generations.
Episode IV didn't put elderly Obi Wan and Vader in the forefront. It wasn't called An Old Hope.
Episode VII is better with an awakening rather than The Return of the Return of the

It's not the same situation. 4, 5 and 6 started the whole thing. We had no real attachment to Obi-Wan when a new hope started. It would be a different story if it played out in numerical order. Then I bet people would have been upset that Obi-Wan died so quick, because at that point you would have been emotionally attached to him. Luke has 40 plus years of built up emotional investment with the fans. No one was asking for 3 movies of luke. They wanted that one last adventure to pass the tourch to the new generation.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It's not the same situation. 4, 5 and 6 started the whole thing. We had no real attachment to Obi-Wan when a new hope started. It would be a different story if it played out in numerical order. Then I bet people would have been upset that Obi-Wan died so quick, because at that point you would have been emotionally attached to him. Luke has 40 plus years of built up emotional investment with the fans. No one was asking for 3 movies of luke. They wanted that one last adventure to pass the tourch to the new generation.

Agreed. There’s REALLY no way an honest adult can make the argument they handled the OT characters well...or that it was unavoidable to get backlash.

You just have to understand and give a crap and they did not. That’s why KK should have been gone. The buck stops there.

Bad move in the moment and strategically.
I mean...what do we now know about this movie? They have billy dee at 80...the emperor (who was cheapened in the prequels so I hope that’s corrected)...and they have “spoiler alert”...

It may be cool...but it’s still desperate.

I think there’s another shoe to drop as well. Wait for it.


But it’s just a confirmation of what us five angry fanboys who didn’t like last Johnson said: they done screwed up! It happened. It’s tangible and verifiable.

Didn’t someone just say Star Wars isn’t selling because marvel is big?? Huh?!??
So that doesn’t stop fast and furious 18 making $1.2 billion...
Good lord

Ok...rant completed except this:
If they hadn’t forced the Laura Character...which was done for an “L”...and hadn’t made her the suicide...that entire movie takes a different tone.

That and stupid clicking del toro...

So you take the bit character everyone LOVES...akbar...and you give him one good line and make him the matyr...

Fist pumps and tears...changes the entire movie.

But I get why...nobody in LFL apparently did.

 

[sedati]

It's not the same situation. 4, 5 and 6 started the whole thing. We had no real attachment to Obi-Wan when a new hope started. It would be a different story if it played out in numerical order. Then I bet people would have been upset that Obi-Wan died so quick, because at that point you would have been emotionally attached to him. Luke has 40 plus years of built up emotional investment with the fans. No one was asking for 3 movies of luke. They wanted that one last adventure to pass the tourch to the new generation.

Why are you only looking at things in terms of "fans." Fans are only a small portion of the Star Wars viewing audience.
Episodes one, four, and seven are all entry points.
I have 40 years of emotional investment with Luke which is why he made such a perfect mcguffin in 7, and such a compelling figure in 8, and such a mystery in 9.

 

[erasure fan1]

Why are you only looking at things in terms of "fans." Fans are only a small portion of the Star Wars viewing audience.
Episodes one, four, and seven are all entry points.
I have 40 years of emotional investment with Luke which is why he made such a perfect mcguffin in 7, and such a compelling figure in 8, and such a mystery in 9.

No, fans of star wars make up the vast majority of the viewing audience. If you mean hardcore fans, then sure. But even then, they account for multiple multiple viewings. If you lose the fans, casual or hardcore, you end up with solo. As far as Luke being compelling in ep8, I would have to disagree. And the guy who plays Luke wasn't all that fond of the portrayal either.

 

[sedati]

No, fans of star wars make up the vast majority of the viewing audience. If you mean hardcore fans, then sure. But even then, they account for multiple multiple viewings. If you lose the fans, casual or hardcore, you end up with solo. As far as Luke being compelling in ep8, I would have to disagree. And the guy who plays Luke wasn't all that fond of the portrayal either.

Mark Hamill wanted to play Han. Mark wanted to get the girl. Mark wanted Luke to turn to the dark side. Mark is a great Luke, but he's never been on the same page.

Here's what Hamill wanted in VII:
"I pitched [J.J.] Abrams on the idea of, 'You can still have me come in at the very end, but how about this? How about Leia's trying to contact me telepathically, she gets frustrated because there's no answers, so she rushes to the new Death Star. And she almost gets there but she gets stopped by two Stormtroopers and, just before she's abducted, one Stormtrooper turns to the other one, blows him away, pulls off his helmet and says "Hi, sis, I'm here to rescue you."' I said, 'It'll blow the roof off the joint!'"

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think I’ve heard everything now...

There’s this hidden, top level secret that nobody really knows...listen closely:

“Disney makes BIG mistakes...all the time. They have made a lot of them with STAR WARS. A Star Wars movie should never bomb. It’s almost inconceivable. It happened. Stop denying how poorly they’ve done. On the whole...their movies have probably been worse than the prequels because they didn’t understand the potential for mistakes if you didn’t have the right priorities. They have two Star Wars: Galaxy’s Empty they can’t get anybody to. That’s insane. Have a nice day.”

 

[Joesixtoe]

It's not the same situation. 4, 5 and 6 started the whole thing. We had no real attachment to Obi-Wan when a new hope started. It would be a different story if it played out in numerical order. Then I bet people would have been upset that Obi-Wan died so quick, because at that point you would have been emotionally attached to him. Luke has 40 plus years of built up emotional investment with the fans. No one was asking for 3 movies of luke. They wanted that one last adventure to pass the tourch to the new generation.

This

 

[Joesixtoe]

Besides Luke, the whole Han and Leia story was ripped apart as well, and we were supposed to understand this from one single scene of them talking about Snoke and their son in what seemed to be very forced.. no pun intended..ish.

 

[Mike S]

Here’s how the original three are fixed though really they never broke Leia. I wonder why

Han didn’t abandon Leia. They all agreed that after what happened he should go with Luke to help him find what he was looking for, the First Jedi Temple. He’s a Smuggler so staying hidden and under the radar helps a lot. This change means Luke is present for all of VII and the reunion scene has all three heroes present instead of just Han and Leia. It also means Luke is there when Han dies after they all go to Starkiller Base. Rey loses her first encounter with Kylo then Luke steps in with the fight playing out pretty much as it does just different people involved. He was hesitant at first but at the end of this movie Luke agrees to train Rey leading into 8. In 8 Luke still dies but it’s an actual fight not astral projection. Kylo and his Knights of Ren attack late during Rey’s training and take him down. He goes out fighting like a hero so Rey can get away in the Falcon with Chewie for the future of the galaxy.

 

[erasure fan1]

Here's what Hamill wanted in VII:
"I pitched [J.J.] Abrams on the idea of, 'You can still have me come in at the very end, but how about this? How about Leia's trying to contact me telepathically, she gets frustrated because there's no answers, so she rushes to the new Death Star. And she almost gets there but she gets stopped by two Stormtroopers and, just before she's abducted, one Stormtrooper turns to the other one, blows him away, pulls off his helmet and says "Hi, sis, I'm here to rescue you."' I said, 'It'll blow the roof off the joint!'

That really sounds like mark being mark. The funny part is that most people thought that was about how it would play out. Almost everyone I know, thought that when the light saber started to wiggle in ep7 on starkiller base, that it was going to Luke. So yea, he's not wrong, it would have blown the roof off. But I fail to see how that quote makes Rians portrayal of Luke "compelling"?

 

[sedati]

The classic trio are three disparate people banded together to stop a common enemy. Farm boy, politician, pirate. They changed a lot in their four years together and to think things would be the same after thirty is absurd. Certainly they would be changed by the hardships of war- some for the better, some for ill. Without a common enemy, their differences would likely divide them. Possibly turn them against one another.
Long form storytelling should depict character evolution. That's what we got. We didn't get the characters back as we left them. We got them back after thirty years of who knows what. We want to know what happened. It's unfamiliar, but more compelling and far more engaging.

 

[Joesixtoe]

The classic trio are three disparate people banded together to stop a common enemy. Farm boy, politician, pirate. They changed a lot in their four years together and to think things would be the same after thirty is absurd. Certainly they would be changed by the hardships of war- some for the better, some for ill. Without a common enemy, their differences would likely divide them. Possibly turn them against one another.
Long form storytelling should depict character evolution. That's what we got. We didn't get the characters back as we left them. We got them back after thirty years of who knows what. We want to know what happened. It's unfamiliar, but more compelling and far more engaging.

Not with hero's, especially one's that in our minds have been living happily ever after, kicking tail clear across the galaxy the last 35 years.

 

[Mike S]

The classic trio are three disparate people banded together to stop a common enemy. Farm boy, politician, pirate. They changed a lot in their four years together and to think things would be the same after thirty is absurd. Certainly they would be changed by the hardships of war- some for the better, some for ill. Without a common enemy, their differences would likely divide them. Possibly turn them against one another.
Long form storytelling should depict character evolution. That's what we got. We didn't get the characters back as we left them. We got them back after thirty years of who knows what. We want to know what happened. It's unfamiliar, but more compelling and far more engaging.

Evolution would’ve been Han as a general or something alongside his wife past his smuggling days (only now doing it to help Luke if we go with my pitch) and Luke as a full Jedi Master like Obi-Wan and Yoda before him.

We got neither.

 

[sedati]

Evolution would’ve been Han as a general or something alongside his wife past his smuggling days (only now doing it to help Luke if we go with my pitch) and Luke as a full Jedi Master like Obi-Wan and Yoda before him.

We got neither.

So best outcomes for everyone? Everyone?
Compelling.
Has anyone here ever heard of Joseph Campbell and the hero's journey, or it all just fanfiction and angry blogs?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Evolution would’ve been Han as a general or something alongside his wife past his smuggling days (only now doing it to help Luke if we go with my pitch) and Luke as a full Jedi Master like Obi-Wan and Yoda before him.

We got neither.

One was a farce and the other two were degenerates.

Which don’t get me wrong...I could be ok with if they provided anything close to intelligent reasons...or at least made a good sequence on film.

To echo your point: we got neither.

What Disney has done with Star Wars is really a Hollywood/societal thing: self loathing.

Kathy Kennedy - who’s rich because of 80’s hero movies - forgot to check her damn resume and notice that she’s not the one to champion revisionist hero archetypes.

So luke was the hero and Leis was a B and Han was a archetype pig...let’s “correct that”.

It like putting a Prius engine in a Ferrari. Sure...it makes you look more woke and “responsible”. It also makes you look like a fool forever in the level of tone deafness.

Ah...whatever...I don’t want to bring anyone down as they dream about tonight’s Not So Scary

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

So best outcomes for everyone? Everyone?
Compelling.
Has anyone here ever heard of Joseph Campbell and the hero's journey, or it all just fanfiction and angry blogs?

Did joe advocate re-writing successful characters for the money goals of uncreative modern executives?

That’s is what happened. No exaggeration.

 

[Mike S]

So best outcomes for everyone? Everyone?
Compelling.
Has anyone here ever heard of Joseph Campbell and the hero's journey, or it all just fanfiction and angry blogs?

Have you heard of fun movies where people just want to see their heros prevail?

Save it for the Oscar bait.

One was a farce and the other two were degenerates.

Which don’t get me wrong...I could be ok with if they provided anything close to intelligent reasons...or at least made a good sequence on film.

To echo your point: we got neither.

What Disney has done with Star Wars is really a Hollywood/societal thing: self loathing.

Kathy Kennedy - who’s rich because of 80’s hero movies - forgot to check her damn resume and notice that she’s not the one to champion revisionist hero archetypes.

So luke was the hero and Leis was a B and Han was a archetype pig...let’s “correct that”.

It like putting a Prius engine in a Ferrari. Sure...it makes you look more woke and “responsible”. It also makes you look like a fool forever in the level of tone deafness.

Ah...whatever...I don’t want to bring anyone down as they dream about tonight’s Not So Scary

I never took Leia as a B She just didn’t take Han’s crap and he equally didn’t take hers. She warmed up to both heros though once she saw more of them and the good in both.