Staggs says changes to Fantasyland...

[ChrisM]

People don't need to be familiar with the source material if the attraction is well done. Splash Mountain will probably always be the best example of this.

I agree with this for the most part - a sufficiently well executed attraction can completely overcome a guest's ignorance of, or detachment from, the source material.

But Splash Mountain has several layers to it. There's the Song of the South, of course, which very few people are familiar with, but Br'er Rabbit and related characters are at least somewhat in the public consciousness at large due to their origins in folklore. And "Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah" as a song is also somewhat permeated into our culture even if no one knows exactly what the origin is.

 

[UberPlannerMom]

Well, since Fantasyland is pretty much consigned to Walt's original works, and there's a concern over appeal to both genders, how about incorporate one of his unappreciated classics into the FLE: Darby O'Gill and the Little People:

I loved this when I was a kid! :ROFLOL:

 

[lebeau]

I could certainly see it there rather than Bald/Fire Mountain. It has a great regality to it that would fit in well with Cindy and Beast's castles.

Can I say I don't think either one would fit very well?

 

[lebeau]

I agree with this for the most part - a sufficiently well executed attraction can completely overcome a guest's ignorance of, or detachment from, the source material.

But Splash Mountain has several layers to it. There's the Song of the South, of course, which very few people are familiar with, but Br'er Rabbit and related characters are at least somewhat in the public consciousness at large due to their origins in folklore. And "Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah" as a song is also somewhat permeated into our culture even if no one knows exactly what the origin is.

True.

 

[ToTBellHop]

I think it's safe to assume that neither Fire nor Bald Mountain is being built. No where near enough budget for either.

 

[Evil Genius]

I think it's safe to assume that neither Fire nor Bald Mountain is being built. No where near enough budget for either.

Yeah I don't think there's much debate against that fact.

 

[Mrs.Toad]

Yes, but that is not what I meant. Nobody's intelligence was called out.

This thread is wonderful until some people take up pages and pages with posts insisting on info and just don't let it drop when they are repeatedly told that nothing more can be said.

It happens every day now and I cringe in exasperation until the thread gets back on track.

It's funny when people joke and can't wait to hear more, but others argue, accuse, and ridicule when info isn't forthcoming and it stifles the thread.

So in regard to FLE...

For whatever is coming I still just have a feeling that they are going to look more towards the classic movies, IMO. And really, if designed well, any of the classics can fit into some type of ride genre, if that is what happens.

Fantasyland is designed like a pastel Renaissance-type fair that is the link between the variety of classic movies represented in the current FL which all take place in different times and places.

Kind of surprising to me that with all of the original M&G plans that nothing was mentioned regarding Snow White at the M&G. Tiana and Jasmine are understandable and I guess I always never thought about the mine train way back when, because she does have her ride in the park already.

Alice would be great and offer a bit more appeal than what the original proposal was. It just depends what they do with any franchise they choose to represent in FLE.

 

[Grizzly Hall 71]

I think it's safe to assume that neither Fire nor Bald Mountain is being built. No where near enough budget for either.

I agree but jaun hinted at things being cut. That should open up money. Along with the slight increase in the budget.


Btw I would see Bald Mountain before Mount Olympus in Fantasyland.

 

[David S.]

This is precisely the myopic perception that's so prevalent back here amongst the Disney obsessed.

Given my presence on the forums one could make a strong argument that I'm exponentially more Disney obsessed than the typical, casual visitor, and yet, despite having seen Bambi, I couldn't tell you who Flower was. Thumper, on the other hand, I do recall.

Sorry, but if you can't recall who Flower is, you are clearly not "Disney-obsessed" as far as the Disney Animated Classic Films go. You ARE "Disney-obsessed" regarding the parks.

By contrast, I frequent boards where people know the cannon of DACs INSIDE AND OUT - every major and minor character, every line of dialogue, who animated what scene, etc., and yet some of those posters know very little about the parks, and have little interest in them.

Me, I'm obsessed with BOTH, but my favorite park attractions have always been largely those based on the Animated Classics, their characters, their stories, and their songs. If you ask me to define what the word "Disney" means to me, the first thing I think of is Snow White, Pinocchio, Dumbo, Pooh, Cinderella, Alice, Peter Pan, Lady and the Tramp, Sleeping Beauty, Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, etc, and of course the "Fab 5" (and pals) from the shorts - Mickey, Minnie, Donald, Pluto, Goofy, Chip n Dale, etc.

I do NOT think of Pirates, or Haunted Houses, or Star Wars, or Aerosmith, or the Twilight Zone. I enjoy those park-unique "Disney" things (though not as much as other, cuter, park-unique Disney attractions like Small World, Country Bears, Tiki Birds, and Figment) .

But in my opinion, the most ICONIC characters and stories that DEFINE Disney to me are the Animated Classics, particularly the more well-known types I described above.

Which is why Fantasyland has always been my favorite "land" in any Disney park, and the one I want to run to first! (Despite being a "boy" who supposedly aren't supposed to like these things!)

PS. And even though "boys" are "supposed" to like the villains (according to others in this thread), I've always HATED them!

 

[ToTBellHop]

I agree but jaun hinted at things being cut. That should open up money. Along with the slight increase in the budget.


Btw I would see Bald Mountain before Mount Olympus in Fantasyland.

it might open up enough money for something of Midway Mania's size, but certainly not a $150,000,000 new mountain.

I don't see ANY big mountains in Fantasyland. It would look bizarre behind the castle. I've never liked how the Matterhorn dwarfs Sleeping Beauty castle, and I don't think Disney will be too eager to mimic that effect again.

 

[Grizzly Hall 71]

it might open up enough money for something of Midway Mania's size, but certainly not a $150,000,000 new mountain.

I don't see ANY big mountains in Fantasyland. It would look bizarre behind the castle. I've never liked how the Matterhorn dwarfs Sleeping Beauty castle, and I don't think Disney will be too eager to mimic that effect again.

Why? Even Walt approved of the idea. I'm sure if they were to build it, it wouldn't be more than 150 ft.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Sorry, but if you can't recall who Flower is, you are CLEARLY not Disney-obsessed as far as the Disney Animated Classic Films go. You ARE only Disney-obsessed regarding the parks.

By contrast, I frequent boards where people know the cannon of DACs INSIDE AND OUT - every major and minor character, every line of dialogue, who animated what scene, etc., and yet many of those posters know very little about the parks, and have little interest in them.

Me, I'm obsessed with BOTH, but my favorite park attractions have always been largely those based on the Animated Classics, their characters, their stories, and their songs. If you ask me to define what the word "Disney" means to me, the first thing I think of is Snow White, Pinocchio, Dumbo, Pooh, Cinderella, Alice, Peter Pan, Sleeping Beauty, Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, and of course the "Fab 5" Mickey, Minnie, Donald, Pluto, Goofy, Chip n Dale, etc.

I do NOT think of Pirates, or Haunted Houses, or Star Wars, or Aerosmith, or the Twilight Zone. I enjoy those park-unique "Disney" things (though not as much as other, cuter, park-unique Disney attractions like Small World, Country Bears, Tiki Birds, and Figment) .

But in my opinion, the most ICONIC characters and stories that DEFINE Disney to me are the Animated Classics, particularly the more well-known types I described above.

And I would argue that what has traditionally defined the Disney parks are attractions NOT based upon those characters. The most off-spoken of rides are Pirates, Haunted Mansion, Space Mountain, Tower of Terror, Big Thunder, etc.--largely original attractions that did not borrow their story from anywhere else. While you may enjoy the animated classics, I doubt the average visitor books a trip to Disney World focused on riding Snow White's Scary Adventures.

 

[ChrisM]

Sorry, but if you can't recall who Flower is, you are CLEARLY not Disney-obsessed as far as the Disney Animated Classic Films go. You ARE only Disney-obsessed regarding the parks.

No argument here.

And since we're talking about theme park attractions, we can't simply assume that most visitors to WDW are as obsessed with Disney Animated Classic Films as you are.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Why? Even Walt approved of the idea. I'm sure if they were to build it, it wouldn't be more than 150 ft.

It destroys the forced perspective of both the castle and the matterhorn. I've never liked it. And Walt wasn't perfect.

It's placement manages to somehow make BOTH the castle and the Matterhorn look small.

I prefer the fact that our Magic Kingdom has always kept the mountains far enough away from the castle that they don't affect its majesty.

You need to keep very tall attractions far away from one enough or they affect each other's scale. Disney has been good about this since 1959.

 

[The Incredible Schmulk]

A. Magic Kingdom had two thrill rides before getting its third. Epcot had none, MGM had one, and Animal Kingdom wasn't even open. MK needs more dark rides before it needs a thrill ride. You could even argue that they need to refurb a few attractions before adding any rides.

B. The problem with FLE is that not everyone will enjoy it. As is the problem with adding more thrill rides.

Adressing A, I agree. The other night when we were talking about this, my girlfriend suggested a Sword in the Stone dark ride, something maybe similar in layout and operation to the the Peter Pan ride and its floating gondolas.

Personally, I thought that was a fairly brilliant idea.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Adressing A, I agree. The other night when we were talking about this, my girlfriend suggested a Sword in the Stone dark ride, something maybe similar in layout and operation to the the Peter Pan ride and its floating gondolas.

Personally, I thought that was a fairly brilliant idea.

Thrill rides make more money and get attendance up, though. Look at what Everest did to AK's attendance.

This is the real reason we are even having this discussion. As much as they deny it for not wanted to sound like they underestimated the effect, this is really happening because Universal built a thrill ride that both boys and girls love, and their attendance is booming this summer because of it. Disney needs to pick a franchise that is somewhat similar in target audience to Harry Potter if it wants to grab some of those extra guests Universal is attracting.

 

[IWant2GoNow]

Adressing A, I agree. The other night when we were talking about this, my girlfriend suggested a Sword in the Stone dark ride, something maybe similar in layout and operation to the the Peter Pan ride and its floating gondolas.

Personally, I thought that was a fairly brilliant idea.

Your avatar is hilarious!

That is all. :wave:

 

[orky8]

Thrill rides make more money and get attendance up, though. Look at what Everest did to AK's attendance.

This is the real reason we are even having this discussion. As much as they deny it for not wanted to sound like they underestimated the effect, this is really happening because Universal built a thrill ride that both boys and girls love, and their attendance is booming this summer because of it. Disney needs to pick a franchise that is somewhat similar in target audience to Harry Potter if it wants to grab some of those extra guests Universal is attracting.

Eh, Not sure I agree. I would agree if the changes were coming to DHS and AK (which, hopefully they will be - that would be Juan's tip of the Iceberg). MK needs more capacity. While of course we all love E tickets, Some solid D's to take up the capacity are what it really needs. Immersive and authentic "Disney" rides. DHS and AK (and perhaps EP) need to compete with Universal to get back the touring days that Universal is stealing. I don't think MK is suffering or could suffer from anything Universal ever does - the other parks, though, could and that is where the exciting, must-ride rides need to go. And frankly, those parks need it more.

If any parks is getting a Matterhorn (not that I think any is) it should be Epcot (along with a nice Fondue restaurant - yum). If any park is getting a thrilling Dragon ride, it should be AK, which really needs more rides (and more D ticket dark rides too).

I don't think this rejiggering of FLE is because of HP, it's because the original idea genuinely needed to be tweaked to have broader appeal. The answers to HP, if they come, will come in the other parks, hopefully.

 

[Evil Genius]

Regarding the mountains in contrast to the castles...in all honesty shouldn't the mountains BE taller than the castles?

I mean...they're mountains. :shrug:

Oh and count me among those standing in the grouping of "Disney film and park" obsessed.

 

[David S.]

And I would argue that what has traditionally defined the Disney parks are attractions NOT based upon those characters. The most off-spoken of rides are Pirates, Haunted Mansion, Space Mountain, Tower of Terror, Big Thunder, etc.--largely original attractions that did not borrow their story from anywhere else. While you may enjoy the animated classics, I doubt the average visitor books a trip to Disney World focused on riding Snow White's Scary Adventures.

I do! Well, not just Snow White, but the COLLECTIVE of all the Fantasyland attractions combined! When you get there at rope drop, you can walk-on all the FL attractions, with little or no wait! You can therefore spend over an hour continuously in this Magical world from the Animated Classics, (uninterupted by lines) which is a longer time than ANY so-called E-ticket lasts!

You can close the park late at night in this most Magical way, as well!

Don't get me wrong - I DO LOVE and enjoy most of the attractions that were NOT based on the DACs! But you left all of my favorites from that category off of your list - It's A Small World, Country Bear Jamboree, Tiki Room, and Figment! All of these do, however, have a high FANTASY and cuteness content that could have been part of the DACs!

As a coaster junkie, I also really love the coasters like Space Mountain and Thunder Mountain, and as an animal lover LOVE EVERYTHING in Animal Kingdom! (even though Bug, Nemo, and Lion King are the only 3 things there based on Disney or Pixar Animated Classics)

As for others you mentioned - Tower, Pirates, and Mansion - I do ride them, and I like the airtime on Tower - but aesthetically - meaning story and atmosphere - they are not even in my WDW Top 25! And they trail in my rankings behind all 8 attractions in the current Fantasyland!

My MK Top 15:

Aesthetics/Story/Atmosphere

1a) It's A Small World
1b) Splash Mountain
3) Country Bear Jamboree
4) Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh
5) Mickey's Philharmagic
6) Peter Pan's Flight
7) Snow White's Adventures
8) Enchanted Tiki Room
9) Dumbo, the Flying Elephant
10) Cinderella's Golden Carousel
11) Mad Tea Party
12) Mickey's Toontown Fair walk-thrus (Mickey's House, Minnie's House, etc)

(9 of these 12 are located in Fantasyland and Toontown, and the 3 that aren't all have Fantasy content! (including Splash Mountain, which does have a Disney Animation pedigree!)

Thrills

1) Space Mountain
2) Big Thunder Mountain Railroad
3) Goofy's Barnstormer

My MK wish-list

Pinocchio's Daring Journey
Alice In Wonderland
Mr. Toad's Wild Ride
Casey Junior Circus Train
Storybook Land Canal Boats
Matterhorn Bobsleds

All of these would make my MK Top 21!