SSE and IASW...travesty's

[Lee]

Weather they pay money for the attraction anymore or not, the point still remains they were the original sponsors of the attraction, and they oppose the changes. That must say something about the idiocy of these changes.

Not to me. Means they are making a big deal out of nothing concerning a ride they no longer have anything to do with.

Can anybody please come up with a reason for adding Disney characters to IASW, how will it improve the theme, how will it improve the core message of the attraction, how will it improve the atmosphere of the attraction?

Reason? Sure...it will be cute. Add a little new fun to a very stale attraction.
Improve the theme? Nah. It won't impact the theme at all.
Core message? :snore: Who really notices a message in Small World?

 

[MuRkErY]

Core message? :snore: Who really notices a message in Small World.

If that's the case, then original intent of Mary Blair, Walt and WED is as good as dead.

And if the only reason for adding characters to an attraction is because it's "cute" then it seems imagination is as good as dead as well.

But there's a USA section in Paris' IASW (I think), and it doesn't kill the ride. Why would it do so here?

There is a USA section in the Paris version because the Paris version is in France, not the USA.

"It was about finding our common humanity outside our own borders."

 

[fizzle75]

I like the blog, which I had never seen before. On the two posts the OP references, I can't really say anything about the new SSE, as I haven't ridden.

But as to putting characters in IASW, I don't consider a travesty, an idiocy, or even a bad idea. It can be done tastefully and keeping within the theme. It can also be done poorly. Same with a USA section. It can be done well, and it can be done poorly. Somehow, the blog poster seems to think he/she knows that it will done in a "tacky" way. If it's tacky, I won't like it. But there's a USA section in Paris' IASW (I think), and it doesn't kill the ride. Why would it do so here? And the Hong Kong version will include characters -- does that mean it'll be terrible?

Putting Lilo in Hawaii (stitch is more of a stretch), Belle in France, Wendy Darling in London, and Aladdin and Jasmine on a flying carpet doesn't bother me, if it's done well. And I surely don't mind the fact that I'll have something new to look for and at. I love IASW and ride it every time I'm in a Magic Kingdom, and I suspect that I'll enjoy it more with new things to see, as long as they're done well.

I worried about PoTC when I head about adding Jack Sparrow, and the first couple times I rode it after that, I did find myself looking for Jack instead of enjoying the aspects of the ride I have always enjoyed. Now I do both, and the ride is even better than it was. It could have been done poorly, but it was actually done well. I hope any changes to IASW are similarly done well.

I agree with you whole heartedly MichWolv, I couldn't have said it better myself.

I just don't get why this is such a big deal to some folks. I realize that Disney Imagineering have made some decisions in the past that have upset fans and made them a bit cynical and jaded but I honestly don't think they will allow this to be done poorly and I think that in the end it will be very subtle and blend in perfectly with the "feel" and design of IASW.

Let's not count our chickens before they hatch folks.

 

[MuRkErY]

It does not matter how it's done. The very concept of adding characters to IASW is what’s wrongs, it's the concept not the execution, kind of like choosing a survey, and a whimsical Jettsons animation as the ending for SSE, it's the concept not the execution, no matter how well executed it is it's going against the inherent soul of the attraction.

Is nothing sacred? Instead of kids focusing on the different cultures of the world, the very notion of the attraction, there going to be saying “Has anybody spotted Peter Pan Yet” once again kind of like instead of focusing on “Our responsibilities to build a better Spaceship Earth, through communication and understanding” people are instead going “hahahaaahah, look my face is on a 2D animation, how funny, ahahahahahahah” The soul is ripped out and what is left is a corporate exercise in global brand marketing.

It's called dumbing down, come on in America. Come to Disneyland with your hard earned money so Disney can condescend to you.

 

[Lee]

It does not matter how it's done. The very concept of adding characters to IASW is what’s wrongs, it's the concept not the execution, kind of like choosing a survey, and a whimsical Jettsons animation as the ending for SSE, it's the concept not the execution, no matter how well executed it is it's going against the inherent soul of the attraction.

A matter of opinion and not fact. No point arguing opinion.

Is nothing sacred?

In a theme park attraction? In Fantasyland? No. Nothing is "sacred".

Instead of kids focusing on the different cultures of the world, the very notion of the attraction, there going to be saying “Has anybody spotted Peter Pan Yet”

Which will likely increase the average child and family's enjoyment of the attraction. Seriously? You really think little kids conme off the ride with an increased awareness of other cultures? Please.

 

[Expo_Seeker40]

 

[Edeyore]

Weather they pay money for the attraction anymore or not, the point still remains they were the original sponsors of the attraction, and they oppose the changes. That must say something about the idiocy of these changes. Can anybody please come up with a reason for adding Disney characters to IASW, how will it improve the theme, how will it improve the core message of the attraction, how will it improve the atmosphere of the attraction?

How will it improve the theme? It will help to bring more attention to it. The ride is geared toward the younger set and it helps them relate better to a country, such as China, by seeing someone they know there, such as Mulan or even Dragon.

How will it improve the core message? It may not improve it, but it will make it more understandable to the demographic the message is directed to.

How will it improve the atmosphere? I for one like the characters and feel they would definitely add to the atmosphere. Seeing Mulan in China, Peter Pan or Mary Poppins in England, Lilo & Stich in the South Pacific would add some fun.

As for UNICEF opposing the changes. Not a sponsor, no imput. Disney attraction, Disney choices. Disney rules!

 

[MuRkErY]

In a theme park attraction? In Fantasyland? No. Nothing is "sacred".

There is nothing saying Fantasyland is ok to become corporate marketing land, while all the other lands are somehow protected. Fantasyland is as integral to Disneyland as Frontierland, Adventureland, New Orleans Square etc...

Fantasyland has an abundance of movie-tie in attractions, as this is where there theme fits as most Disney Animation is based on fantasy they are placed in....Fantasyland. How-ever this does not mean to say EVERY attraction in Fantasyland has to have characters, quite the opposite. IASW is a whimsical, attraction visually based on fantasy but also with an underlying message that the whimsical child-like visuals only help to accentuate.

At least it seems Disney has succeeded in devaluing its theme park “franchise” to the point where people can go “In a theme park attraction?” as if just because it’s a theme park it has no bearing on the world, or reality. Walt obviously took the parks very seriously, they are more than just theme parks, they are works of art that inspire and show what the human creative sprit is capable off. Just a “theme park attraction” completely devalues all the artistic effort Mary Blair and the rest of WED put into making IASW.

Which will likely increase the average child and family's enjoyment of the attraction. Seriously? You really think little kids conme off the ride with an increased awareness of other cultures? Please.

Not so much an increased awareness of other cultures (Go to World Showcase for that, or I’d suggest travelling the world as that is obviously the best way) but an increased awareness that there are other cultures out there, and that we all must co-exist and live on this planet together. I got it, I’m sure many others did. IASW has obviously seeped it’s way into the consciousness of the general public so it’s underlying message has been more than a success. Like I’ve said before, the problem with Disney at the moment is that They aim to low and succeed instead of aiming to high but with the risk of failure. Walt Aimed high, the risk of failure was all ways there, the whole Disney company is built on aiming high, these core values seem to be disappearing more and more as the marketing department, with it’s perverse short term gain system, based on lowering the standards for maximum profit takes a ever more vice like grip on the WDC.

 

[Pete C]

I'm sorry guys, but the vast majority of people that ride SSE will find it to be an improvement. Only Disney-crazed enthusiasts will be appalled by the changes. The ending IS funny when the faces are working, and most people will be laughing when the exit the ride rather than yawning or having to be woken up.

As for Mickey and company being in IASW...all I can say is some of you take Disney way too seriously. Do you really think kids are getting some sort of message when they ride IASW? PLEASE!! They are just looking at the dolls and listening to the song.

 

[ChrisFL]

You really think little kids conme off the ride with an increased awareness of other cultures? Please.

Yes, actually. And I don't want to see this changed into "Its a small world- but USA's the best"...its not what we need, especially in the place that the US has in the world right now (not a good one)

There are people who get it and people who don't get it. The people who run reimagineering GET IT, the people that criticize all of these people for not wanting the kind of marketing changes constantly driven by this new version of Disney DON'T get it.

It's not about the fact that rides are updated, it's that they're updated with clear goals in marketing and increasing brand recognition, not keeping the ride unique and allowed to stand on its own merit.

IMO they should have upgraded it by taking the kind of animatronics in the Sinbad ride at TDS which would "plus" the ride while keeping it fresh but not destroying the point of the ride.

 

[MuRkErY]

How will it improve the theme? It will help to bring more attention to it. The ride is geared toward the younger set and it helps them relate better to a country, such as China, by seeing someone they know there, such as Mulan or even Dragon.

How will it improve the core message? It may not improve it, but it will make it more understandable to the demographic the message is directed to.

How will it improve the atmosphere? I for one like the characters and feel they would definitely add to the atmosphere. Seeing Mulan in China, Peter Pan or Mary Poppins in England, Lilo & Stich in the South Pacific would add some fun.

This is exactly the type of dumbing down, condescending behaviour we should be fighting against. It does not improve it, it talks down, it condescends. So you’re saying children are incapable of enjoying, and understanding IASW without the aid of Disney characters being shoe-horned into the attraction? We obviously have no faith in the worlds children anymore as it appears we now take every chance possible to force characters into something so they will pay attention, have the worlds children all suddenly developed ADD?

I don’t believe in talking down to children, I don’t believe in talking down to any segment” Walt Disney

 

[MousDad]

I have no problem with putting thematically correct, unobtrusive characters into Small World.
I have no problem with the new SSE.

Simple as that.:shrug:

I agree with the first statement. I think, if it is done the way it is pictured in the concept art, it would be a brilliant addition, without affecting the "original" in any way. People say "where is the imagination?", but I think incorporation of this material will require a great deal of imaginative design.

I also think it has the potential to be extremely popular with the vast majority of people who ride the ride.

 

[SirNim]

ExpoSeeker—Wonderful pictographic distillations of SSE endings past and present. :lol:

 

[MuRkErY]

LMAO Expo Seeker, lol.

Let's just say that made me laugh much more than the ending of SSE, LOL.

 

[EpcotServo]

Thanks for posting that, I've now taken Imagineerrebirth off my radar because it seems from those two articles they are NOT the people they were made out to be. Just cranky Disney fans who are upset about everything.
:lol:

THE FUNNY PART: I don't think Mary Blair or ANY of the old Imagineers would care at all about changes. Heck, I'm sure they'd be the first to admit that the rainforest part isn't THAT great. I'm sure they'd just be happy that it's lasted SO long in time to only NOW get a few minor changes. The only ones getting mad over change are the people that would make the unfounded claim that the Imagineers of old would've had a fit.

They were nice people. They didn't care about change. In fact, they were the ones who always WANTED change.
:brick:

 

[wannab@dis]

I absolutely adore the Re-Imagineering blog. It lays out the unvarnished truth about what is presently wrong with the Disney parks and oftentimes follows up with creative suggestions as to how to put things right.

I absolutely despise the Re-Imagineering blog. It lays out the unvarnished truth about the views of a few Disney "purists" and oftentimes follows up ridiculous suggestions to put the company out of business. :zipit:

This is exactly the type of dumbing down, condescending behaviour we should be fighting against. It does not improve it, it talks down, it condescends. So you’re saying children are incapable of enjoying, and understanding IASW without the aid of Disney characters being shoe-horned into the attraction? We obviously have no faith in the worlds children anymore as it appears we now take every chance possible to force characters into something so they will pay attention, have the worlds children all suddenly developed ADD?

Eureka moment there, huh? Everyone must be dumb if they enjoy being entertained on a Disney ride. I love that argument.

The Disney company is nailing their pixie laden coffin shut. They are making younger generations associate them as a company strictly about happiness and harmony, characters, pixar, and merchandise, merchandise, merchandise!

Yep, the evidence of that is overwhelming. Oh, wait, no... the evidence is actually the opposite. :drevil:

 

[wannab@dis]

Thanks for posting that, I've now taken Imagineerrebirth off my radar because it seems from those two articles they are NOT the people they were made out to be. Just cranky Disney fans who are upset about everything.
:lol:

THE FUNNY PART: I don't think Mary Blair or ANY of the old Imagineers would care at all about changes. Heck, I'm sure they'd be the first to admit that the rainforest part isn't THAT great. I'm sure they'd just be happy that it's lasted SO long in time to only NOW get a few minor changes. The only ones getting mad over change are the people that would make the unfounded claim that the Imagineers of old would've had a fit.

They were nice people. They didn't care about change. In fact, they were the ones who always WANTED change.
:brick:

Agreed!

They would welcome changes that refreshed attractions and brought more popularity to showcase their work. Times have changed... Leave it to Beaver is not the entertainment of today. I just can't understand why some think attractions should not attempt to follow the evolution of lifestyles and choices.

 

[SoFlaDisneyFan]

The Disney company is nailing their pixie laden coffin shut. They are making younger generations associate them as a company strictly about happiness and harmony, characters, pixar, and merchandise, merchandise, merchandise!

Very few attractions have been new and unique in recent years. The majority of the attractions in recent years have either been cloned and placed elsewhere, use technology ripped off from other attractions that use the same premise/technology, or are character-based overlays over unique and creative rides.

Disney...and it's sad to say was.....was about hiring the greatest and the best, the one's with the best talent, and could push the envelope. The one's that could manage creative deparments and allow new and exciting unique things to see in do. The message doesn't change, the purpose doesn't change....the technology and execution changes. It's not that we all want an EPCOT Center stuck in 1982 with big hair, big glasses, fuzzy old projection screens, etc the premise of entertain, inform, inspire with unique and creative things to see and do in the 21st century? You bet. Donald duck in Mexico, and over 90% of a pavilion devoted to a clown fish? Nahhh.

Back then you could see the Disney live and animated characters on TV and in the movies, maybe even run into them here and there throughout the parks, but you could also experience the other realm of Disney...one that puts you into fantastic and unique and creative stories made strictly for the Disney parks.

"it's a small world" is popular, famous, and even imfamous enough as it is, adding characters does not benefit or make the ride better in any way, especially for the American versions, let alone the original one in california.

It is nothing more than a ploy for more merchandise, and once again another spot the character game.

We're going to enter a time...within 20-25 years when Pirates aren't as popular...when grandparents and parents will only look back on Johnny Depp with fond memories.....Toy Story will eventually be replaced by God only knows what other Pixar movies in the years to come, who knows how well classic Disney animation will go.

So much money will have to be placed on replacing fads with more fads, that Disney will suck any money possible into their marketing department to find any excuse to get people to come to their parks every year just to experience new temporary fad related rides and shows that will be gone within 5-7 years.

Rather than invest in timeless classics such as thunder, space, etc and give them technology upgrades over time...the pendulum has swung into an era of commercialism, not creativity.

This says it all. No need for further discussion!

 

[Thiger]

I love this blog.
The 'Hong Kong Phooey' article made me LOL, everyone in the office gave me weird glances and it didn't translate when i tried to explain it
lol

 

[MousDad]

The Disney company is nailing their pixie laden coffin shut. They are making younger generations associate them as a company strictly about happiness and harmony, characters, pixar, and merchandise, merchandise, merchandise!

Darn you, Happiness! Curse you, Harmony!