SSE and IASW...travesty's

wannab@dis

Well-Known Member
If you think that was his main goal, you should really read up more on him.
No, actually, you should read a little more. Something other than the feel good bio made to sell copies and make a few bucks. It's interesting to see how some can't get past the picture that is painted. Whether of Walt, Disneyland/Disney World, Epcot, etc. The real reason for all of the above was business, generating a profit, making money. Some have been so blinded by the magic they have lost the ability to see reality. There is no altruistic endeavor, no message. There's only a marketing plan.

With that said, I love the "magic" of Disney and enjoy the parks. But I'm not blinded to their reasoning and, in fact, I accept it and hope it continues. For it to continue, it has to appeal to each generation in the ways that are accepted by that generation.
 

imagine_82

New Member
i will not believe that you can accurately judge an attraction before it's completed unless you're the one designing it. then go ahead.
 

Expo_Seeker40

Well-Known Member
If an artist continues to produce pieces I do not approve of in recent times, I should continue to remain optimistic that they will produce a piece I finally approve of? :shrug:
 

Timmay

Well-Known Member
Look Out!!!

I sense someone is about to insert an anti-negativity post in this thread.... :fork::fork::fork:

Yeah...well here is a good one!!

It is hard to take any person serious when the refer to changes they don't like at Disney attractions as a "travesty" or a "disgrace".:rolleyes:

All that means is someone is not really tuned in to the real world around them, or they really have no clue as to what a real travesty is!!!:brick::brick:

Once again, I am convinced that A) some people just don't like to like things, and B) some people really, honestly believe Disney should cater to them and them only.
 

Timmay

Well-Known Member
If an artist continues to produce pieces I do not approve of in recent times, I should continue to remain optimistic that they will produce a piece I finally approve of? :shrug:

No, of course not. A normal person would stop looking at that artists work. They would ignore it as they would anything else that they would not have to be subjected to.

They also wouldn't try to make the artist do the kind of work they approved of.

Maybe there are some that should find a different artist...one they like better.
 

Expo_Seeker40

Well-Known Member
Couldn't agree with you more. I'll give Disney 5 years tops, if I don't see what I like, I'm not vacationing there any more. Too many other things to see in one's life. :wave:
 

wannab@dis

Well-Known Member
If an artist continues to produce pieces I do not approve of in recent times, I should continue to remain optimistic that they will produce a piece I finally approve of? :shrug:
I would think you look for another artist. Surely you would not attempt for force the artist to produce what you like instead of what they want. :lookaroun
 

Expo_Seeker40

Well-Known Member
Are you sure it's what the artist want's to make or what the client says the artist should make even though the client has no proof what their target audience wants other than saying "Nah, do it...they'll love it" :)
 

Expo_Seeker40

Well-Known Member
the only outcomes possible is what is dictated by management. One could have the most creative minds possible, ready to make new and exciting things to see and do, but instead must compromise their skills and forced to pull out refrences from Disney movies to..once again... design another ride or show themed to a Disney movie because management tells them to do so.
 

wannab@dis

Well-Known Member
Are you sure it's what the artist want's to make or what the client says the artist should make even though the client has no proof what their target audience wants other than saying "Nah, do it...they'll love it" :)
Do you REALLY think Disney makes decisions based on a whim? I've been involved in a few of their research endeavors... it's much more in depth than most would think. THEY are not the ones in a vaccuum concerning their products and the wishes of their consumers.
 

MKCP 1985

Well-Known Member
my first impression of that blog was that it is very negative. After the stories on Small World and Spaceship Earth, I scrolled down to the next couple and they were negative as well.

I can't waste my time on a blog devoting one negative story after another on a place that makes so many people feel happy and good.

In the end, putting characters on Its a Small World would make me more likely (not less likely) to endure it on the next trip. As for the new Spaceship Earth, the only negative responses I've heard to it have been internet posts, meaning people I know in the real world have all told me they liked it more than the former version. :shrug:
 

Timmay

Well-Known Member
Are you sure it's what the artist want's to make or what the client says the artist should make even though the client has no proof what their target audience wants other than saying "Nah, do it...they'll love it" :)

Excellent...the old "They make these decisions in a vaccum" or "I wonder where the dartboard is they throw the darts at to make these choices" arguements.

Entertaining, to say the least...but, of course, highly inaccurate.
 

imagine_82

New Member
the only outcomes possible is what is dictated by management. One could have the most creative minds possible, ready to make new and exciting things to see and do, but instead must compromise their skills and forced to pull out refrences from Disney movies to..once again... design another ride or show themed to a Disney movie because management tells them to do so.

welcome to the corporate world! :wave:

yet even within a corporate environment, decisions are not always dictated by management or marketing. one goal of every company is to make money, and this is a way to attract the masses.

that doesn't mean that artists are not creating the way & means...someone is still designing the outcome, and it's not the management, per say.
 

wannab@dis

Well-Known Member
the only outcomes possible is what is dictated by management. One could have the most creative minds possible, ready to make new and exciting things to see and do, but instead must compromise their skills and forced to pull out refrences from Disney movies to..once again... design another ride or show themed to a Disney movie because management tells them to do so.
I'm going to say this as nice as I can. Come back when you have a little experience to back up your posts. It's evident you have zero experience in business and your knowledge of it is, well, lacking. I understand you are young, but sometimes, you should acknowledge that the people running TWDC have just a weeee little more capability than you. :wave:
 

Expo_Seeker40

Well-Known Member
Intersting because I too have had to define target audiences, research them, find secondary audiences, and continue to find new ways of selling a new product, not new ways of selling the same product over and over again.

Sort of like how Apple has its brand and its identity but continues to wow em evertime with the latest and greatest in what they do.

But the general public thinks Disney is just for kids, especially when they keep pumping out character related rides and shows that in actuality appeal to smaller age group then what they intend.

Show me the evidencethat Disney has found that the general public would not be interested in Disney making a few new and creative rides and I'll then agree with the changes going on with IASW.

If the reasons are because Disney knows they can simply market IASW with new characters and sell merchandise and can offer no other answer with the exception of making more money rather than caring about form and content then no I won't support the IASW refurb. :wave:
 

ChrisFL

Premium Member
I'm going to say this as nice as I can. Come back when you have a little experience to back up your posts. It's evident you have zero experience in business and your knowledge of it is, well, lacking. I understand you are young, but sometimes, you should acknowledge that the people running TWDC have just a weeee little more capability than you. :wave:

So these same capable people can't get people to visit HKDL or DCA, can't make a decent JII replacement and are constantly alienating their most loyal fans, yet they're the experts....
 

jakeman

Well-Known Member
Here are a few things that some folks need to come to terms with (listed in particular order):

Disney is a corporation. A corporation's purpose is to make money.

Any "spirit" or "intent" that is attributed to an attraction is for marketing purposes only.

If you do not like the change to a particular attraction the only way to communicate this is to stop partaking in the product entirely.

As I have said before, the rantings on this board are the equivalent of buying a car you hate and yelling at the other customers about how the model was better 20 years ago.

It doesn't matter to the dealer...you still bought the car. To think otherwise is naïve.

Please excuse any grammar or punctuation errors as I am writing this on my phone.
 

fyn

Member
Some thoughts

I haven't ridden the new Spaceship Earth, and my personal opinions on Epcot's thematic elements may lead some of you to categorize me as a "purist." So be it, they're my opinions and not up for discussion. What can be discussed is this blog post's accuracy, and the so-called facts its trying to convey.

The original Spaceship Earth was the result of the combined effort of countless artists--among them at least three certified geniuses: Buckminster Fuller, John Hench and the visionary poet Ray Bradbury.
As far as I can tell, much of these genius' work is still intact. The Bucky ball is still a Bucky Ball. Many of Hench's designs are still used where they're appropriate. I'm a bit dismayed over the reworking of Bradbury's script, but that's mainly because I'm skeptical that someone other than Bradbury would have made an improvement. From the blog post, it seems as though Disney tried too hard to make history such as Ancient Rome relevant to today's guests. Referring to books as a "back-up system" is rather awkward, and people, even children can understand the value of books without the awkward post 2000 A.D. vernacular.

While we’re on the subject of narration, it's important to note show writers removed the word “Islamic” and replaced it with “Arab.” Why would they do that? Aren’t Muslims our fellow passengers aboard Spaceship Earth as well?
They really missed the point on this one. The time period the ride is talking about focuses on a time and place, the rise of Islam during that period isn't what's important. Changing the term to Arab instead of Islamic is more accurate, because believe it or not, Jewish and Christian Arabs were doing the same things, in the same place, at the same time.

There was another odd change in the renaissance scene. A sculpture of a woman with a bare breast has been replaced with a covered-up version. Really? We’re too prude for the renaissance now? Seriously? The renaissance!?
I agree with his criticism here.

I don’t care if it is the 1970s and you like to climb into a cage at Studio 54 after work, but when you come to work as a lab tech you better dress like a lab tech, young lady. This costume design choice is fundamentally wrong.
As someone who didn't live in the 70's, I find it hard to comment here. I think their theme is confused, and trying to convey too many things by having the girl wear a labcoat and a skirt, but if someone can confirm that that was common attire for a young female lab tech in the 60/70s, I have no problem with it.

I wonder if anyone remembers the last time WDI installed video screens in ride vehicles. It was for a little fiasco called Superstar Limo. Why would anyone want to duplicate any element of that show?
Logical Fallacy - Fallacy of the Consequent. Just because Superstar Limo had video screens, and Superstar Limo sucked, it is *not* true that all rides with video screens must suck.

An unintentional metaphor to be sure but I can’t help but read the message as: “stare at your own television, ignore the world passing by you and we’ll protect you from the dangers of marble nudity and big words you don’t understand.”
I'm also a Bradbury fan, but you can't write, then ignore, what I've bolded above. Its unfortunate that its so easy to make this metaphor, and I can't deny its there, but as the author says, its unintentional to be sure.

These changes don't seem as (Spaceship) Earth shattering as the alarmist author would like you to think. Again, I can't comment on the ride itself as I haven't been lucky enough to ride it yet after the refurb, but this doesn't seem worth getting worked up about. Now, if we want to talk about Nemo replacing SeaBase Alpha, Mission: Space replacing Horizons, or Test Track replacing World of Motion...I'm all ears.
 

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