SPOILERS: Indiana Jones 5 (Jun 30, 2023)

[Casper Gutman]

Why do you say that? I'd say Disneys track record supports this theory. Look at Marvel, iron heart, she hulk, kate bishop... The new national treasure series. They were going that way with the new pirates until the whole thing was scrapped.

The accusation isn't that Phoebe Waller-Bridge will put on the hat and go off for more adventures after Indy retires (or even dies) at the end of the film Ford is 80, he's done here, and that would be just fine (I'd prefer Ravenwood-centered prequels myself). The insane accusation, being made by arch-culture-warriors, is that the film will retroactively erase everything Indy ever did and replace him with Waller-Bridge in Raiders, Temple, etc. Which is a mad accusation.

Yes, with the Avengers actors aging or simply not interested in continuing to play their characters, Marvel is turning to the non-X-Men, Non-Fantastic-Four characters (the plans were made before the Fox acquisition). Several are female. Several, like Shang Chi, aren't. Old Hawkeye is still around, as is Thor and Ant-Man and Vision and Strange and Spidey and etc. Original Hulk is still very active - they just introduced his son and the rumor is that the rights situation is about to change and he'll get a solo picture in the coming years. What should matter is the quality of the character and performance, and at least new Hawkeye and new Black Widow are vast improvements on their predecessors. Anyway, these are all Marvel comic characters, some with very long histories (She-Hulk was Lee's creation from back in 1980) so take the issue up with Marvel, not the MCU.

And as much as fans hate to hear it, Ford utterly loathed playing Han.

 

[erasure fan1]

Anyway, these are all Marvel comic characters, some with very long histories (She-Hulk was Lee's creation from back in 1980) so take the issue up with Marvel, not the MCU.

Yes, I understand that. If the time travel stuff is true, it will end up like star trek. Those original movies still happened but are now and alternate time line. And Phoebe will be the new Jones. And that is a pretty good bet. And all the stuff I mentioned, points to that being something Disney would do.

And as much as fans hate to hear it, Ford utterly loathed playing Han.

He very well might have. But you know what Ford loves? A fat paycheck. So I don't care if he didn't like the roll. I still doubt he wouldn't have done the trilogy if the pay was there.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Yes, I understand that. If the time travel stuff is true, it will end up like star trek. Those original movies still happened but are now and alternate time line. And Phoebe will be the new Jones. And that is a pretty good bet. And all the stuff I mentioned, points to that being something Disney would do.

No, it’s an absurd bet that makes sense only if your view has been completely warped by culture war grievances. It has no relation to the artistic decisions in any of the works you’ve cited. Introducing female leads is not akin to literally rewriting history to eliminate an iconic hero unless your view of reality comes processed through angry you tubers.

General rule: if you’re getting your artistic and political opinions from a guy named Doomcock, you’re doing it wrong.

 

[erasure fan1]

Introducing female leads is not akin to literally rewriting history to eliminate an iconic hero unless your view of reality comes processed through angry you tubers.

General rule: if you’re getting your artistic and political opinions from a guy named Doomcock, you’re doing it wrong.

All I'm saying is that it's a good bet they want to replace Fords Indy with a female. I don't care how they do it. Maybe the time travel rumors are true and old Indy sacrifices himself and passed the mantle to Phoebes character. Maybe not, it doesn't matter. If they didn't want Phoebe to take over the roll they would have stayed in continuity and recast someone to play his son. But unless they are doing a great job of fooling everyone, that's not happening. Not sure why you keep bringing up doomcock. He's just rehashing other peoples rumors. Rumors that no matter the source, aren't all that out of form for Disney. I hope the time travel thing isn't real, it's just kind of lazy. But "dial of destiny"? It does sorta sound like a time machine trope.

 

[Prince-1]

No, it’s an absurd bet that makes sense only if your view has been completely warped by culture war grievances. It has no relation to the artistic decisions in any of the works you’ve cited. Introducing female leads is not akin to literally rewriting history to eliminate an iconic hero unless your view of reality comes processed through angry you tubers.

General rule: if you’re getting your artistic and political opinions from a guy named Doomcock, you’re doing it wrong.

Who is a Doomcock?? Sounds like something said in a Fantastic Four themed adult movie.

 

[GimpYancIent]

The accusation isn't that Phoebe Waller-Bridge will put on the hat and go off for more adventures after Indy retires (or even dies) at the end of the film Ford is 80, he's done here, and that would be just fine (I'd prefer Ravenwood-centered prequels myself). The insane accusation, being made by arch-culture-warriors, is that the film will retroactively erase everything Indy ever did and replace him with Waller-Bridge in Raiders, Temple, etc. Which is a mad accusation.

Yes, with the Avengers actors aging or simply not interested in continuing to play their characters, Marvel is turning to the non-X-Men, Non-Fantastic-Four characters (the plans were made before the Fox acquisition). Several are female. Several, like Shang Chi, aren't. Old Hawkeye is still around, as is Thor and Ant-Man and Vision and Strange and Spidey and etc. Original Hulk is still very active - they just introduced his son and the rumor is that the rights situation is about to change and he'll get a solo picture in the coming years. What should matter is the quality of the character and performance, and at least new Hawkeye and new Black Widow are vast improvements on their predecessors. Anyway, these are all Marvel comic characters, some with very long histories (She-Hulk was Lee's creation from back in 1980) so take the issue up with Marvel, not the MCU.

And as much as fans hate to hear it, Ford utterly loathed playing Han.

I must agree on your last and final point. Per Fords own words he hated portraying Han, something he would overlook for enough money.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Who is a Doomcock?? Sounds like something said in a Fantastic Four themed adult movie.

He’s one of the foremost pop culture culture warriors, the popularizer (and possible originator) of this stupid rumor, and an all-around awful person. His video on this issue is posted on the first page of this thread.

Look, the plot may involve time travel. Phoebe Waller-Bridge may take up the whip at the end. Ford is 80, he’s done as Indy (and moving into the MCU!)

But Indy isn’t getting ERASED from history.

And Phoebe Waller-Bridge is vastly preferable to Shia LeBouf, even if she has the audacity to be a woman. Any continuation of the IP is more likely to explore the period before rather then after Indy, so none of it matters much anyway.

 

[Jedijax719]

Shia was just AWFUL!!!

If they do explore periods of time before the Indy movies (another young Indy series?), would it be odd that they deaged Harrison in this movie only to have a different actor play him later?

 

[Screamface]

Do you remember the part where Yoda told Luke explicitly not to rescue his friends and let them die in large part because emotional attachments are bad? Or where the older Jedi told him there was nothing of his Father left, which was incontrovertibly wrong? Or where Luke's final victory over the Empire was a profoundly emotional plea to the emotional attachment he shared with his Father, exactly the sort of thing the Jedi said was wrong?

I remember when Yoda told Luke he wasn't ready to confront Vader, Luke then almost died. Luke then went and finished his training with Yoda having learnt a valuable lesson.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Shia was just AWFUL!!!

If they do explore periods of time before the Indy movies (another young Indy series?), would it be odd that they deaged Harrison in this movie only to have a different actor play him later?

Abner Ravenwood is just sitting there, waiting. And he looks a lot like Oscar Isaacs to me.

 

[Casper Gutman]

I remember when Yoda told Luke he wasn't ready to confront Vader, Luke then almost died. Luke then went and finished his training with Yoda having learnt a valuable lesson.

You may need to rewatch it because you’re missing most of what happened. For one thing, Luke never “completes his training,” Yoda dies immediately when Luke returns to Degobah. And the “important lesson” he learned by disobeying Yoda was that disobeying Yoda was the correct decision, prioritizing emotional attachments is good - and eventually his continued emotional attachments are what save the galaxy.

 

[TalkingHead]

Predictions on running time? Last Crusade was the longest previous entry at 127 min. I’m in the minority but I thought Mangold’s Ford/Ferrari was tiresome at 153 min. (This has the same screenwriters fwiw.)

 

[Jedijax719]

Who is a Doomcock?? Sounds like something said in a Fantastic Four themed adult movie.

You mean like Mr. Manhattan in Watchmen?

 

[CaptainMickey]

Hollywood already has female Indiana Jones movie/series, It's called Lara Croft - Tomb Raider. I'm a fan.

Disney has plenty of great female characters, why would they possibly consider replacing a massively popular male characters like Indiana Jones, right?

They have a ton of new shows with awesome, incredibly strong female characters, and that's really awesome!

But, Look at all the new strong male hero IP shows they have:
They have a series about Loki.. wait it's mainly about his female version.
They have a Hawkeye series...wait that was mainly about Kate Bishop
They have a new Iron Man...ah nevermind.
Is Thor still a shlub?
Obi-Wan Kenobi show set when he is supposed to be guarding young Luke on Tatooine...but it's about young Princess Leia?
They are doing a New National Treasure with Nicholas Cage, right?

You can't see why fans might be a little nervous about Indy?

We LOVE strong female characters. (Princess Leia, Jen Erso, Marvel, Disney Princesses!) (Not Disney, but awesome, Sara Connor - Terminator 2, Ripley - Aliens, etc.) No one wants these characters turned into men. Disney seems too lazy to come up with any original character lately. It's easier to just hi-jack an established character and it will have a built in audience already. I'm guessing most Indy fans won't be too thrilled if Helena takes his hat and his name, even if they don't erase his existence. Just a guess.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Hollywood already has female Indiana Jones movie/series, It's called Lara Croft - Tomb Raider. I'm a fan.

Disney has plenty of great female characters, why would they possibly consider replacing a massively popular male characters like Indiana Jones, right?

They have a ton of new shows with awesome, incredibly strong female characters, and that's really awesome!

But, Look at all the new strong male hero IP shows they have:
They have a series about Loki.. wait it's mainly about his female version.
They have a Hawkeye series...wait that was mainly about Kate Bishop
They have a new Iron Man...ah nevermind.
Is Thor still a shlub?
Obi-Wan Kenobi show set when he is supposed to be guarding young Luke on Tatooine...but it's about young Princess Leia?
They are doing a New National Treasure with Nicholas Cage, right?

You can't see why fans might be a little nervous about Indy?

We LOVE strong female characters. (Princess Leia, Jen Erso, Marvel, Disney Princesses!) (Not Disney, but awesome, Sara Connor - Terminator 2, Ripley - Aliens, etc.) No one wants these characters turned into men. Disney seems too lazy to come up with any original character lately. It's easier to just hi-jack an established character and it will have a built in audience already. I'm guessing most Indy fans won't be too thrilled if Helena takes his hat and his name, even if they don't erase his existence. Just a guess.

The Obi-Wan series was not “mainly” about Leia. Loki was not “mainly” about lady Loki. You’re making things up to be angry about, and you’re all over the map. You try to argue Disney Princesses are “strong female characters.” You claim to love characters like Leia and the Marvel women - a paragraph after complaining about Leia and the Marvel women! And trying to pretend Lara Croft is equivalent to Indy…

But let’s take this seriously. Let’s look at next Summer’s lineup and see if women are replacing all the men. Male led blockbusters: Guardians 3, Fast X, Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse, Transformers, The Flash, Indy 5, Mission: Impossible, Oppenheimer, TMNT, Gran Turismo, Blue Beetle. Female led blockbusters: Little Mermaid, Elemental (maybe), Barbie, The Marvels. Clearly, women are taking over all the traditional male action roles! I say that satirically, but we’ll hear it in earnest a lot when The Marvels opens. Doomcock will be very angry.

Oh, and anyone who doesn’t think new Hawkeye (and new Black Widow) are massive upgrades over the flavorless originals confounds me.

 

[_caleb]

I’m glad they’re making another Indiana Jones while Harrison Ford still can. I think it’s awesome to have his adventures span such a long career.

 

[Movielover]

The Jedi legacy is broken. Luke became a hero by ignoring the explicit advice of his Jedi mentors, forming numerous profound personal attachments, frequently giving into emotion, and believing in a Father that the Jedi order had profoundly failed. He then spends years learning about a complacent, decadent order that did things like ignoring the enslavement of his grandmother and thousands of others on Tatooine in favor of negotiating trade agreements. Luke’s story absolutely leads to a reconsideration of the old Jedi code and the construction of something new. We got the first part of that, but unfortunately Disney got scared off from doing the second bit.

This 100%, Lets also not forget that at the end of The Last Jedi Luke confronts Ben, stalls The First Order, and saves the Resistance all while showcasing a tremendous power of the force (Force Projection across the galaxy) all while not taking a single life. That's arguably the most Jedi thing he's done. I love Hamil's performance in that movie, its so good!

 

[_caleb]

Indiana Jones 5 Director James Mangold Sets Record Straight Over Inaccurate Online Rumors

The Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny helmer took to Twitter to explain what's not going to happen.

gizmodo.com

 

[Jedijax719]

Okay NOW I see why some were talking about everything coming down to SW. Even I, with Jedi in his name, sees the overuse of SW analogies and discussion. Back to Indy.

I will have to see more from this movie to really get a feel of it. I love the Indy franchise (especially the 1st and 3rd movies of course). The 4th one just felt like just another Indy movie and not a monumental return and reunion it was meant to be. Now, in the "twilight" of Indy as was described (by Mangold himself I think), I HOPE that IJDOD is a true celebration and culmination of the past 41 years of adventures. From there, they can hopefully transition nicely into their D+ series that offers something new and fresh.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Indiana Jones 5 Director James Mangold Sets Record Straight Over Inaccurate Online Rumors

The Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny helmer took to Twitter to explain what's not going to happen.

gizmodo.com

The adherents of the rumor simply say Mangold is lying. The rumor’s not based on reality, just a desperate need for a grievance.