SPOILER Agatha All Along, D+, premier 9/18/24

[BrianLo]

It makes me sad that Acolyte could not pull this off. Because I think that could have been a great thing for Star Wars if it was just a bit more coherent, better executed and less goofy. The concepts are strangely very similar, yet every mistake Acolyte made, Agatha avoids.

Not to bring down Acolyte, but more that the whole thing wasn’t conceptually flawed, just never executed well enough. At least retroactively redemptive that these type of stories are not automatically bad like a vitriolic/mostly male portion of the internet wants them to be.

 

[Disney Irish]

It makes me sad that Acolyte could not pull this off. Because I think that could have been a great thing for Star Wars if it was just a bit more coherent, better executed and less goofy. The concepts are strangely very similar, yet every mistake Acolyte made, Agatha avoids.

Not to bring down Acolyte, but more that the whole thing wasn’t conceptually flawed, just never executed well enough. At least retroactively redemptive that these type of stories are not automatically bad like a vitriolic/mostly male portion of the internet wants them to be.

I think the biggest difference between the two shows is that Agatha wraps things up in a more satisfying way and leaves only a few questions unanswered, whereas Acolyte leaves too many things unanswered and too many loose ends not resolved, or not resolved in a satisfying way.

 

[flynnibus]

I think the biggest difference between the two shows is that Agatha wraps things up in a more satisfying way and leaves only a few questions unanswered, whereas Acolyte leaves too many things unanswered and too many loose ends not resolved, or not resolved in a satisfying way.

I think it's more Agatha is a greenfield where the majority of the audience didn't have any pre-notions of what they thought the show or characters should be. Compared to Acolyte, where the roles and expectations were so heavily laden with fans that were predisposed on what they should be.. so they were constantly in conflict with the show's actual course.

 

[Disney Irish]

I think it's more Agatha is a greenfield where the majority of the audience didn't have any pre-notions of what they thought the show or characters should be. Compared to Acolyte, where the roles and expectations were so heavily laden with fans that were predisposed on what they should be.. so they were constantly in conflict with the show's actual course.

Or to simplify that in my own words if I can,

SW fans built up this idea of was a SW show should be and won't accept anything else, where as MCU fans are more open to letting a show breathe to see where it goes.

 

[flynnibus]

Or to simplify that in my own words if I can,

SW fans built up this idea of was a SW show should be and won't accept anything else, where as MCU fans are more open to letting a show breathe to see where it goes.

I don't think it's as broad as SW vs MCU

But you could say 'Jedi characters vs Witches we only knew from another MCU show'

 

[MisterPenguin]

 

[Disney Irish]

I don't think it's as broad as SW vs MCU

But you could say 'Jedi characters vs Witches we only knew from another MCU show'

Dunno, we could say that we've seen about the same amount of each in the various shows and movies (and comics/EU) from both franchises. So I do kinda think it comes down to SW vs MCU in terms of fandom. But I'm open to all view points.

 

[sedati]

It makes me sad that Acolyte could not pull this off. Because I think that could have been a great thing for Star Wars if it was just a bit more coherent, better executed and less goofy. The concepts are strangely very similar, yet every mistake Acolyte made, Agatha avoids.

Not to bring down Acolyte, but more that the whole thing wasn’t conceptually flawed, just never executed well enough. At least retroactively redemptive that these type of stories are not automatically bad like a vitriolic/mostly male portion of the internet wants them to be.

I liked both shows but put Acolyte far ahead of Agatha (and WandaVision ahead of both).

 

[LittleBuford]

Really great series! Joe Locke was the big surprise for me; he’s a fantastic actor.

 

[MarvelCharacterNerd]

My takeaways:

#1 Grotesquerie did it better (was really fascinating watching these two shows unfold simultaneously)

#2 As with WandaVision, the best thing to come out of this show was the song

#3 Unless, and even if, Thunderbolts - and Ironheart - are massive hits, at best, Young Avengers will likely be another Disney+ show, if it even happens at all. These characters are just not getting the mass appeal interest needed to make a movie. That said, I expect to love Thunderbolts. And no, I won't add an asterisk to the title.

 

[LittleBuford]

And I'll note again that the queer representation was very welcome, especially in light of the claims being voiced around six months ago that Disney had been cowed into retreating from such representation. This is proof (as if it were needed) that good storytelling and diversity are in no way mutually exclusive.

 

[flynnibus]

And I'll note again that the queer representation was very welcome, especially in light of the claims being voiced around six months ago that Disney had been cowed into retreating from such representation. This is proof (as if it were needed) that good storytelling and diversity are in no way mutually exclusive.

Yet still largely used here for what almost feels gratuitous show off. Neither relationship did much of anything for the story…. We find that agatha is more concerned with nicky… not rio herself. Yet the love line is for what?

And teens love interest… gay for what? Balance? Awkward, excluded teens finds shelter in another teen… ok… but their sexuality is what here to the story?

Maybe again ghe difference is greenfield vs reworking spaces people already had images of…

 

[LittleBuford]

Yet still largely used here for what almost feels gratuitous show off. Neither relationship did much of anything for the story…. We find that agatha is more concerned with nicky… not rio herself. Yet the love line is for what?

And teens love interest… gay for what? Balance? Awkward, excluded teens finds shelter in another teen… ok… but their sexuality is what here to the story?

Maybe again ghe difference is greenfield vs reworking spaces people already had images of…

I don’t understand your point. Queer representation doesn’t necessarily mean making the story about sexuality itself; just being represented can be enough. As a gay man, I appreciated seeing a young gay actor playing a gay leading character. I wish such characters had existed when I was growing up.

ETA: His sensibility, including how he imagined the Witches’ Road, was absolutely queer, as any gay man would recognise. So yes, his sexuality did have an actual bearing on the story.

 

[DKampy]

Yet still largely used here for what almost feels gratuitous show off. Neither relationship did much of anything for the story…. We find that agatha is more concerned with nicky… not rio herself. Yet the love line is for what?

And teens love interest… gay for what? Balance? Awkward, excluded teens finds shelter in another teen… ok… but their sexuality is what here to the story?

Maybe again ghe difference is greenfield vs reworking spaces people already had images of…

Sexuality does not completely define a gay person… just as sexuality does not completely define a straight person…. I think it is great Disney did not cave and modify or canceled to appease a certain angry mob… which proves just tell good stories and those voices will be silenced… they only go after easy targets…. So they can feel as if the world agrees with them

I thought the show was brilliant… as the ending completely changes the conceptual nature of the series… it begs for a rewatch… my wife even told me she feels the need to rewatch the series… and she is always a one and done with any series… it is probably among my top 2 Marvel tv shows

 

[flynnibus]

Sexuality does not completely define a gay person… just as sexuality does not completely define a straight person…. I think it is great Disney did not cave and modify or canceled to appease a certain angry mob… which proves just tell good stories and those voices will be silenced…

Modify or cancel?
Were these relationships part of the source material? Or were they added as part of this writer’s story? Sounds like they were added to me…
Note i said relationships… i questioned why they were necessary… or their value. Highlighting the sexuality as inclusion just seems forced about it all.

 

[LittleBuford]

Modify or cancel?
Were these relationships part of the source material? Or were they added as part of this writer’s story? Sounds like they were added to me…
Note i said relationships… not sexuality

Sexuality is not just about relationships. A gay person who is single or celibate is still gay. I've been gay for all my life, and my childhood was very much shaped by my gay identity, long before I had any concrete concept (much less experience) of sex, romance, etc., and long before I had come out even to myself.

 

[flynnibus]

Sexuality is not just about relationships. A gay person who is single or celibate is still gay. I've been gay for all my life, and my childhood was very much shaped by my gay identity, long before I had any concrete concept (much less experience) of sex, romance, etc.

Note my edit…

I stand by my point. The relationships and the sexuality of them seem gratuitous in relation to the story. You can celebrate inclusion all you want… but it still seemed forced here.

 

[LittleBuford]

Note my edit…

I stand by my point. The relationships and the sexuality of them seem gratuitous in relation to the story. You can celebrate inclusion all you want… but it still seemed forced here.

And as I said, the Witches' Road was super gay in its aesthetics and conception. So even by your standards (which I don't agree with anyway), Billy's sexuality did turn out to be narratively relevant.

 

[DKampy]

Modify or cancel?
Were these relationships part of the source material? Or were they added as part of this writer’s story? Sounds like they were added to me…
Note i said relationships… i questioned why they were necessary… or their value. Highlighting the sexuality as inclusion just seems forced about it all.

I have no idea what is in the original source I Don’t follow the comics… nor does it matter what is in the comics… as this is the show runners interpretation

I was referring to Disney as a company changing direction to their original plans due to a certain sect lof YouTubers… as some are claiming happen to Inside Out 2

 

[Disney Irish]

Modify or cancel?
Were these relationships part of the source material? Or were they added as part of this writer’s story? Sounds like they were added to me…
Note i said relationships… i questioned why they were necessary… or their value. Highlighting the sexuality as inclusion just seems forced about it all.

Billy (teen) is gay in the comics, it was important part of his character and it would actually betray who the character was for so many if it wasn't included.

So you call it forced, I call it honoring the actual source material to include his sexuality.